How do you feel about atheists?

[MrEmpiricism]

There probably needs to be a definition of what sort of atheist we’re talking about. There is a real divide between atheists who simply don’t believe, but don’t aggressively attack the religious views of others. These are people you can have a discussion with and at least make a reasonable case for the existence of God to, if not convincing them.

Then there are the anti-theists who can’t or won’t tolerate religious practice or belief. Most of the time, you can’t have a reasonable discussion with them, because their atheism is what defines them, rather than being a component of their thought. It is my thought that these people will be the ones to incite a new wave of persecution in the Western world, as the Church continues to lose its foothold on the culture.

With sets groups, though, there is always an personal undercurrent of revulsion for me, because these are people who have willingly rejected God, for whatever reason, and if you reject God, you are opening yourself up to something else. What is also more striking for me about atheists is that they really are seeking desperately to believe in something, but have a priori ruled out believing in the only thing which is really able to bring anyone solace, a union with God. The ramblings of many atheists about the natural world flirt with pantheism, even if they don’t explicitly state it as such.

Additionally, what also strikes me is that the atheist will willingly mock religious people by saying that atheists have no need for “magic sky fairies” or somesuch, or a “desperate need to believe in something to give their lives meaning,” or a dozen other reasons. What never factors into the discussion is an honest recognition of the most common motivation of religious people – a desire to do good and live in a holy way which cannot be attained except through the introduction of God into one’s life.

In the end, all we can really do is pray for them, live a Godly life as an example, and bear witness to our faith by letting it inform all aspects of our lives. The most significant factor in the early growth of the Church was due to the willingness of early Christians to bear witness not only in the arena, but also by caring for the sick and dying when no one else would. These things make far more impact than the most finely crafted theological discussion.

It is sad to see you have been driven to revulsion. I my be an atheist but I am pretty sure that was not the message of Christ.

 

[Faithdancer]

It is sad to see you have been driven to revulsion. I my be an atheist but I am pretty sure that was not the message of Christ.

Christ is God and in His divinity He is revolted by sin- yours, mine, everyone’s.

 

[MrEmpiricism]

Christ is revolted by sin- yours, mine, everyone’s. That is because every time we sin we wound Him again, and He suffers.

I stand corrected, I now think it is sad that Christ teaches that people should feel revulsion. I much prefer tolerance and goodwill.

 

[rfournier103]

I feel like they are free to believe or not to believe as they see fit.

But I often wonder about some of their views…

Why do atheists give and receive gifts at Christmas? I don’t get that. Also; if there is no God, does that also mean that there is no such thing as ghosts, good/evil spirits, and karma? I am surprised when people who reject God don’t reject EVERYTHING that goes with him.

I have a friend who says that she is an atheist; but seems to believe in some things like ghosts and ‘karma’. I just think that she rejects the Judeo-Christian God, but not necessarily the idea of a Supreme Being or unseen “things”. However, she insists she’s an atheist. I suspect that many people say there is no God in the sense of our understanding of Who God is; but may believe in SOMETHING.

I think (and this is strictly opinion) that the people who believe that there is absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond what we see with our naked eyes may be fewer than what we’ve been led to believe.

 

[Faithdancer]

I think it’s funny that some cosmologists, realizing that “physical necessity” and “chance” are illogical explanations for the origin of the universe, resort to postulating “multiverses” and “baby universes” which are themselves nothing but metaphysical speculations. Anything to avoid the most logical conclusion: the universe was *created *by an intelligent designer and further, is exceedingly finely tuned for the existence of humanity.

 

[MrEmpiricism]

I feel like they are free to believe or not to believe as they see fit.

But I often wonder about some of their views…

Why do atheists give and receive gifts at Christmas? I don’t get that. Also; if there is no God, does that also mean that there is no such thing as ghosts, good/evil spirits, and karma? I am surprised when people who reject God don’t reject EVERYTHING that goes with him.

I have a friend who says that she is an atheist; but seems to believe in some things like ghosts and ‘karma’. I just think that she rejects the Judeo-Christian God, but not necessarily the idea of a Supreme Being or unseen “things”. However, she insists she’s an atheist. I suspect that many people say there is no God in the sense of our understanding of Who God is; but may believe in SOMETHING.

I think (and this is strictly opinion) that the people who believe that there is absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond what we see with our naked eyes may be fewer than what we’ve been led to believe.

if there is no God, does that also mean that there is no such thing as ghosts, good/evil spirits, and karma

Yep, I do not accept any of those claims for the same reason I do not accept any god claims… Lack of evidence.

As for Christmas you do know that Christ was not born on the 25th of December, and the people have been celebrating the winter solstice long before anyone had even heard of Christianity? The same with Halloween which has its roots in pagan celebrations.

 

[Faithdancer]

I stand corrected, I now think it is sad that Christ teaches that people should feel revulsion. I much prefer tolerance and goodwill.

You have a misconception. Christ doesn’t teach us to be revolted by other human beings, but by sin. Particularly our own. Have you never done something that you reflected upon later, and felt revolted about doing?

 

[MrEmpiricism]

I think it’s funny that some cosmologists, realizing that “physical necessity” and “chance” are illogical explanations for the origin of the universe, resort to postulating “multiverses” and “baby universes” which are themselves nothing but metaphysical speculations. Anything to avoid the most logical conclusion: the universe was *created *by an intelligent designer and further, is exceedingly finely tuned for the existence of humanity.

I find that funny too, when the clear fact is the origin of the universe is unknown. However I doubt any real cosmologist claim to know the origin of the universe, what they do, do, is construct models. However I have yet to hear anyone claim their models reflect reality, in actual fact quite the opposite is true. If you are interested in learning more about the subject here is Sean Carroll destroying Lane Craig while debunking your very misconception.

youtube.com/watch?v=X0qKZqPy9T8&list=PLPIYPyWdOTSkHJgFxYdTA1z4aFOlRDGm2

 

[MrEmpiricism]

You have a misconception. Christ doesn’t teach us to be revolted by other human beings, but by sin. Particularly our own. Have you never done something that you reflected upon later, and felt revolted about doing?

Then my original objection stands. It is sad that jc4751 has been driven to revulsion and it goes against the teaching of Christ. For example I do not recall anything in the sermon on the mount that instructed to feel revulsion for others…

 

[Faithdancer]

Then my original objection stands. It is sad that jc4751 has been driven to revulsion and it goes against the teaching of Christ. For example I do not recall anything in the sermon on the mount that instructed to feel revulsion for others…

Again, revolted by the sin, not by the person. When you read about Isis “soldiers” slaughtering young women for refusing to have gang sex, do you feel revulsion? Do you think it’s conceivable that as fallable human beings we might in such a case find it difficult to separate the act of slaughtering from the person who slaughters? I find it very difficult, myself.

Jesus taught us to do many things that we frequently fail at doing.

 

[rfournier103]

if there is no God, does that also mean that there is no such thing as ghosts, good/evil spirits, and karma

Yep, I do not accept any of those claims for the same reason I do not accept any god claims… Lack of evidence.

You’re very committed to your position.

As for Christmas you do know that Christ was not born on the 25th of December, and the people have been celebrating the winter solstice long before anyone had even heard of Christianity? The same with Halloween which has its roots in pagan celebrations.

Would you be shocked if I told you that you are not the first atheist who has told me that?

No one knows the exact date Christ was born. I was just wondering why atheists send out CHRISTMAS cards, give and receive CHRISTMAS gifts, and put up CHRISTMAS trees. Actually… now that I think about it… in the ever-prevailing spirit of inclusiveness and in the effort not to offend anyone; I guess I can’t question an atheist’s motive for sending out HOLIDAY cards, giving and receiving HOLIDAY gifts, and putting up a HOLIDAY tree.

 

[josie_L]

There are angels all around us. I’ve seen one, up close and personal, but that’s a personal account so there’s no reason you should believe me.

I too had a personal experience with an angel, I’ll never forget it.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I did mean it to be snarky, because the person was being very patronising so I returned the favour.

I would not do that if I were you. You might want to read the posting rules, this is a heavily moderated forum.

 

[MrEmpiricism]

I would not do that if I were you. You might want to read the posting rules, this is a heavily moderated forum.

I did read the rules. I hope that if I am anything that happens to me will happen to the other party too in that case.

 

[MrEmpiricism]

Again, revolted by the sin, not by the person. When you read about Isis “soldiers” slaughtering young women for refusing to have gang sex, do you feel revulsion? Do you think it’s conceivable that as fallable human beings we might in such a case find it difficult to separate the act of slaughtering from the person who slaughters? I find it very difficult, myself.

Jesus taught us to do many things that we frequently fail at doing.

Are you really trying to compare not accepting an unsupported claim to soldiers slaughtering young women for refusing to have gang sex?

 

[MrEmpiricism]

You’re very committed to your position.

Would you be shocked if I told you that you are not the first atheist who has told me that?

No one knows the exact date Christ was born. I was just wondering why atheists send out CHRISTMAS cards, give and receive CHRISTMAS gifts, and put up CHRISTMAS trees. Actually… now that I think about it… in the ever-prevailing spirit of inclusiveness and in the effort not to offend anyone; I guess I can’t question an atheist’s motive for sending out HOLIDAY cards, giving and receiving HOLIDAY gifts, and putting up a HOLIDAY tree.

I am committed to reason logic and critical thinking. The reason I am committed to it, it due to the demonstrable benefits it has brought to humanity. For example. Technology, medical science and an understanding or our origins and the cosmos to name a few.

And again the solstice holidays predate Christianity. Oh and just to keep you happy I never send cards, go to church, or put up a tree. I am however aware some atheists do.

 

[josie_L]

Faithdancer was spot on, in my estimation. If there is an atheist that doesn’t know comparing faith in God to Santa, the Easter Bunny, Zeuss, Thor…is not addressing what a person of faith experiences, but rather is denigrating their faith, then I might agree with you.

Points can be made without pushing well known buttons. Otherwise know as cheap shots. Usually meant to provoke. Obviously, the strongly held beliefs of Faithdancer were not taken seriously, let alone respected.

What else is there to do, but pray for those who offend you. Certainly, a fruitful conversation that reflects mutual respect is not going to occur.

 

[rfournier103]

I am committed to reason logic and critical thinking. The reason I am committed to it, it due to the demonstrable benefits it has brought to humanity. For example. Technology, medical science and an understanding or our origins and the cosmos to name a few.

This is likely my last question of you, but I think it’s a good one.

Why would a committed atheist be here on a Catholic forum? I’ve often wondered that about non-Catholics who come here. Most non-Catholics want to learn about Catholicism for one reason or another (curious about why we do and believe what we do), or to debate us. I am curious as to what we owe the pleasure of your company to?

 

[RebeccaJ]

I did read the rules. I hope that if I am anything that happens to me will happen to the other party too in that case.

It could be that is why atheist topics are banned. The rules regarding interfaith dialogs are bases on respect and charity for what each other believe. Atheists have no belief, and confuse charity with tolerance.

 

[MrEmpiricism]

How many times do I need to explain the I was not making such a comparison, I was pointing out the presenting assertions instead of evidence is sloppy thinking at best.