How do you get your partner to be abstinent?

[LoveEveryone]

LoveEveryone- I will take your advice on sharing that my disinterest stems from worry about our souls and relationship with God. The problem is his faith is not very strong, weak even, but he is serious about it, if that makes sense. We are both cradle Catholics and both wandered far from the faith, but when I started looking into WHY the church believes as she does, I realized how amazing God is and how cool our religion really is. Since then I’ve been sharing articles, websites, what I’ve learned in bible study with him and we’ve both learned a lot about mass and Catholicism. I’m more fervent so I have to be careful not to overwhelm him. However it makes me feel awkward saying something like, I don’t want to be intimate because I love God too much. But he’s starting to draw that conclusion himself now and things are changing.

No no, it makes perfect sense Many of us have been there.

I would suggest that you get him to get his questions answered. The thing about “building your faith” is that most of the time, people have their own questions.

My wife is the same way when it comes to being overwhelmed. I can overwhelm her easily. I read a lot of theology and I enjoy arguing with atheist so I tend to have to reach them from a logical/historical standpoint as well as faith. At time i try to explain something to her that I understand perfectly, and she looks at me with those puppy dog eyes that nod in agreement but is soooo lost

I would listen to him, and find out why his faith is not as strong as yours. While you are getting your answers, find out what his questions are and attempt to strengthen his faith, without him even knowing it. Many time I will throw out to my wife “oh, did you know _______”. Shen she says “oh cool”, I know its not as interesting to her as something I tell her and she says “really? I thought ____”… then I can explain it to her.

My GUESS here is that he wants God to answer his questions so he can “be like he is supposed to be.” Tell him about this site, or even me in particular. He can PM me anytime he wants. Ill help you or him in any way I can

To ask a stupid question though, what would you tell someone who asked “why is it important to love without sex when sex is a big part of a relationship and there’s no medical reason not to have it?” Like, I intrinsically know the answer to this but am having a hard time putting it in words. I’m hoping your interpretation will help me. Not that we’ve never been without sex – we had a long time starting up and survived a couple years in a long-distance relationship.

I guess the best way I would try to describe it is this…and I may fail at it

Love is a strictly emotional act. Sex is physical. Love is the giving of one self, just like Sex should be. I am to love my wife like Christ loves the Church. Well I could say that “well if he would come talk to me or hug me, it would be easier to Love him, and to feel that love in return.” However that is not the case. Sometimes we must love without physical intimacy. Yes, sex is a big part of the relationship, however every relationship, is built on love and love alone. Consider sex a bonus. (By this i mean the physical act, not theological)

(keep in mind when I say this, I am speaking from my relationship with my wife, who i love dearly, and have only had “full sexual intercourse” once in 5 years and it was a few days ago. We start to get into it, I see the pain it causes, I stop. I actually chose love OVER sex, because I wish no pain on her) Her happiness means more to me than my personal pleasure.

We, as a culture, have formed our opinion of what love is by movies, songs, books, and the “feel good”.

Love is the giving of one self to please the other. Imagine, if you will, Christ up there on the cross saying “forgive them for they know not what they do”. He is getting NOTHING from them, no hugs, no love in return, no sex, no anything. However he still loves them, even though he got NOTHING in return from those who persecuted him.

Sex is part of a relationship, but Love is Love and I can promise you that once you feel that type of love, the type of love that Christ has for us, then your entire state of mind will change. This understanding of Love is simply amazing.

I hope I’m not coming off as being too hasty to marry or not thinking about it properly – I really have, for the better part of 5 years. I find myself abbreviating my situation on here in the interest of time and the length of my posts.

Nah, I am long winded lol. I also enjoy reading. You can abbreviate to me or you can make it as long as you want, I enjoy reading

 

[jmcrae]

I’m more worried from a religious aspect about co-habitating now that I’ve seen what some people have to say on here. If I shouldn’t receive the Eucharist while cohabitating even though living chastely and trying to get married, then I don’t want to do that.

This is called “scandal.” It doesn’t mean that people will be shocked, but rather, that people look at your situation and make assumptions about what is going on. “Scandal” is a sin because it gives people the impression that someone claiming to be a Catholic doesn’t really care one way or the other about mortal sin.

 

[LoveEveryone]

This is called “scandal.” It doesn’t mean that people will be shocked, but rather, that people look at your situation and make assumptions about what is going on. “Scandal” is a sin because it gives people the impression that someone claiming to be a Catholic doesn’t really care one way or the other about mortal sin.

I would like some proof on this. Some kind of doctrine or even the catechism.

I have seen people tell people its a sin for a long time about this, however when I was going through the situation, I spoke to 4 different priests and they all agreed that if we were living as brother and sister, that we were not committing a sin BUT “we need to be aware of scandal”

Its not that Im saying you are false, but my resources are wrong, or cohabitation is okay if you live as brother and sister. (meaning NO sex, fornication, ect) They DID however warn me, each and every one of them, that I am putting myself in the near occasion of sin, which should be avoided at all times. However we were strong enough to succeed.

And just so everyone knows, I am perfectly aware that most fail at cohabitation, but its possible.

I know its a fine line, but I have not seen any authority state its a sin to live together even if you are living as brother and sister.

Again, I am not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful in any way. I have just had multiple priest tell me differently, although they all agreed I was walking a tightrope the size of dental floss lol.

 

[jmcrae]

I would like some proof on this. Some kind of doctrine or even the catechism.

I have seen people tell people its a sin for a long time about this, however when I was going through the situation, I spoke to 4 different priests and they all agreed that if we were living as brother and sister, that we were not committing a sin BUT “we need to be aware of scandal”

Meaning, don’t receive Holy Communion at a parish where your living arrangements are known to others, but go to a different parish where nobody knows you - because otherwise it will be assumed that the priest is letting you receive Holy Communion even though he is perfectly aware that you are living “in sin” and probably using birth control - meaning that, a) the church has changed its teachings, or b) the Bishop just doesn’t care. (This is what people would naturally assume, unless you go to each one and explain that you are living as brother and sister, which would be very tedious.)

II. Respect for the Dignity of Persons

Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.86

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."87 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,88 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"89

 

[LoveEveryone]

Meaning, don’t receive Holy Communion at a parish where your living arrangements are known to others, but go to a different parish where nobody knows you - because otherwise it will be assumed that the priest is letting you receive Holy Communion even though he is perfectly aware that you are living “in sin” and probably using birth control - meaning that, a) the church has changed its teachings, or b) the Bishop just doesn’t care. (This is what people would naturally assume, unless you go to each one and explain that you are living as brother and sister, which would be very tedious.)

Ahhhhhhhh. Alright that makes sense.

Thanks.

 

[austcatholic]

Hi ToTheCross, my prayers are with you as I have been through a similar situation although my story ended quite differently. Like you, I am a crade Catholic who ‘wandered far from the faith’ then started learning more and more about what our faith teaches and why and yes, also realising how amazing it is and how logical it all is.

After being with my boyfriend for a couple of years, and being sexually intimate right from the start, I moved in with him. My parents never commented one way or the other. (I love them and they have given me so much but they are very liberal Catholics to the point where my mother also agrees with abortion in some circumstances, gay marriage, etc). I also attended a very liberal Catholic high schoolnand was pretty poorly catechised.

At some point we bought a house together and became engaged.

After a few years, my own view on abortion changed to fit those of the Church and as I read various Catholic forums and blogs, including CAF, I realised that the pill was an abortifacient and stopped using it but continued living with and having sexual relations with my boyfriend. He was not very happy about it but accepted it as I refused to take it. After another year or two, I realised we needed to stop having sex as I came to learn and believe in the Church’s teachings and I wanted to make things right with God. He was not very happy about it but accepted it. After this, we still lived together and slept in the same bed for over a year and a half I think and only once fell to temptation (and even then it wasn’t sex).

Having said that, I grew more and more uneasy with living together. I had consulted two priests on the matter and they both said it was okay. One of them, however, when I had still been intimate, knew and never said anything. I approached a third priest and he told me that we should not live together exactly because of scandal.

I ended up moving out and sadly, after a month or so, I decided to end the relationship. Now, unlike the sound of your relationship, ours had several deep flaws that neither of us were willing to face up to. This included the fact that although he always, albeit unhappily, went along with my decisions to stop using the pill, to stop having sex, to move out, he had little respect for my religious beliefs and at times actively derided them. This is despite the fact that he was also a cradle Catholic. It is so encouraging that your fiance will attend the sacrament of confession and mass with you as mine never did.

Moving out gave me the space to properly evaluate my relationship and realise that for many reasons, if we married we would both be very unhappy in the long term. I’m not at all suggesting that will happen to you but perhaps you will also experience the space to evaluate your relationship and deepen your love for each other.

Moving out also gave me the peace of knowing that I was truly living out what God asks of us. Telling people that it was for religious reasons was very hard (even though I teach at a Catholic school!!) but it empowered me to know that in a very visible way I was saying yes, I believe and practise what the Catholic Church teaches and what God commands. I figure it was my own personal Christian witness although it will not make up for the years where I openly lived contrary to the teachings of our Church even whilst
calling myself a faithful Catholic.

Some might call it an unhappy ending but for me it has actually been a very happy ending.

This has been a long response but I want you to know that I really do feel for you and I will pray a rosary fo you today. I think it’s fabulous that you are looking into marrying. Please do consider whether there’s any way you can live separately or at the very least, perhaps different rooms. I pray that you both continue to grow in chastity, charity and faith.

 

[ToTheCross]

jmcrae – when I was living abstinently I made sure my friends knew the change in my decision, and though I fell again, I am now back at it so see no reason to correct myself. When I started going to mass regularly I prayed to not be ashamed of it but rather share it with others and when I realized that I could create scandal by portraying the church other than she is, I made a clear and difficult (too difficult, in this day and age) choice to let those who know me know I am abstinent. Despite not being Catholic they were very supportive. I do not let those I go to church with otherwise know I am cohabitating so as to lead them astray, and I do not receive communion when not in a state of grace, but get up to receive a blessing.

LoveEveryone – thank you for your insight and your offer. I may have to PM you sometime. I talked with him and now know his barrier but don’t think it’s something I can fix. He’ll have to look for the answer to it at some point in time, I think it best I just encourage him and persevere…and pray 

austcatholic- it was scary reading your post. Your story is almost exactly the same as mine, from what your parents believe to what converted you back to the faith. I prayed to Our Lady through the rosary daily, and sometimes twice a day. Through a friend, she helped open my eyes to abortion and led me to her Son, and since then I have hardly looked back. I have always had a separate room from him, just in the past chose not to sleep in a different room. I do now (it makes a few things easier). It was easy for me to quit the pill, especially knowing its role in abortion. He was understanding that it was bad for me spiritually and medically, and even says I am a different, and better person, off of it. I agree that it would be the hardest thing telling people we moved out because of my faith, though not everyone on here will understand why that is so difficult. I also know that happiness only comes when we focus on Jesus alone – that was also a difficult realization. Right now he sees moving out as a step backwards i.e. if we can’t live together and figure this out, how will we figure other things out when we are married. I think the biggest set-back is I seem to have changed rather abruptly and he is not in the same place as I am spiritually.
I am sorry your own past relationship could not work out, but also rejoice that Christ saved you from a relationship He did not mean you to have and opened the path for His choice of perfect spouse to come to you. I am always humbled and grateful when people offer to pray for me. Thank you. I will do likewise for you.

 

[austcatholic]

I am sorry your own past relationship could not work out, but also rejoice that Christ saved you from a relationship He did not mean you to have and opened the path for His choice of perfect spouse to come to you.

This is a super quick response as I’m supposed to be writing report cards but thank you, thank you, thank you for these words. I had never thought about it quite like that.

Also, I honestly think the graces I receive through praying the Rosary, which I have only done for a few months, helped give me the strength to discern the correct way forward so it was amazing to read how it it helped lead you to the truth about abortion.

 

[ToTheCross]

Your very welcome austcatholic

Regarding the rosary, I have received more help than I ever expected, though not always in the ways I imagined.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I agree with one of the previous posters that moving out would be a great way to evaluate your relationship. I think that going through something so challenging before marriage is not a bad thing: it will either make you or break you.

I was once in your shoes. I moved out after a few months of living together when reality of living in mortal sin really hit me. It was the best decision and I never regretted it. It was tough for him because he just didn’t understand, but he did it for me. He loved me and respected me and sacrificed his own desires. I knew then that we would be able to go through tough things in marriage. We have had some really difficult things happen in our marriage and we managed to get out of them better and stronger.

It could happen that your fiancé doesn’t react in the same way. I know of a couple of relationships that ended when one party converted/reverted. But as you have said to another poster, that is not a tragedy but something positive: the person is free to find a spouse that God wants them to have. I’m sure you know this already, but it is good be reminded of reality. It helps us keep things in perspective.

Hope this has helped a bit. God bless.

 

[LoveEveryone]

LoveEveryone – thank you for your insight and your offer. I may have to PM you sometime. I talked with him and now know his barrier but don’t think it’s something I can fix. He’ll have to look for the answer to it at some point in time, I think it best I just encourage him and persevere…and pray 

After thinking about it, I could have summed it up a lot easier lol

You love your kids, mother, and family and dont have sex with them.

And feel free to PM me anytime you wish.

 

[1believer1]

Just a few points before I go… I may have missed some points given in all the replies, but I think if you take the advice to get married remember that most churches can hold a lot of people and this is the most important thing. Marriage is a sacrament and anyone and everyone should be there. The reception can be a small intimate affair or it can be limited in scope … punch and small snacks/sandwiches ,etc. If someone in the family disagrees allow them to plan , invite and pay for the reception! On the other hand if a marriage blessed by the church is not right for you at this time move out or have him move out… very few are able to live a chaste life together ( yes it is possible but not likely). I would suggest that both of you spend some time in prayer and ask The Blessed Mother and her spouse
St. Joseph for help and discernment on this situation / problem. One last point, while these decisions will seem to be only for a short time you an d your boyfriend’s soul are forever … make the decision that takes that in to account.

 

[theyoungmonk]

One quicker, cheaper route that some churches allow is for you to be married at a reguler scheduled Mass such as youre normal Sunday Mass.

 

[ToTheCross]

Contra Mandum – thank you for your insight. It’s true that sometimes others see things clearly, like a bad relationship, than we would ourselves. I wish I had more Catholic friends to discuss this with but I’ve fallen prey to what claims so many of the faithful: I moved away to a different city for university and my friendships fell away. The ones that steadied are with people who are not as religious per se. But there are no other big issues in our relationship (besides this point) and we had a good 2 hour conversation a few nights ago. I definitely felt the effects of some prayers because I said things I never thought I should say before and had some major breakthroughs and things are quite different (and good!) now. I’m actually getting ready to contact churches this morning about their availability for weddings. Time to get the train rolling!

Love Everyone – I actually liked your other description better. I’ve always thought the love you have for someone you’re in a relationship is different than other loves (a think it’s the Greeks that have several different words for the different types of love) since I (and I think most normal people) have never wanted to have sex with a parent/kid.

1believer1 – Unfortunately for me the majority of my family live out of the country, even over-seas, all over the world. It amazes me but it’s as if someone flicked a light bulb at a certain point in their lives and they agreed not to stay within a few 100,000 miles of each other. All these people want to come and I think would have liked more time than I’m probably going to be able to give them to get here, but understandably I don’t think I can ask them to come all this way and not have a reception. Though I guess I never know, maybe more of them won’t be able to make it than I think (I haven’t personally seen or heard from some of them in many, many years, though my parents stay in contact).
Believe me, I spend a lot of time thinking about souls. I’ll take in mind your considerations

theyoungmonk – we did actually start doing a little planning, and I’m not so sure about a Sunday mass. Either way there are bound to be quite a few “Catholics” who do not believe in the state of grace and I don’t want to lead people to sin on my wedding day by them going and taking the Eucharist after a long time, without confession.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I definitely felt the effects of some prayers because I said things I never thought I should say before and had some major breakthroughs and things are quite different (and good!) now. I’m actually getting ready to contact churches this morning about their availability for weddings. Time to get the train rolling!

Wow, that’s great, really happy things are going well.

I understand the desire for a nice wedding where people who are important to you are there to celebrate and witness it. But in the end, it is the marriage that counts. The wedding day will be special, even if it consists of a small party of people. Just put this in God’s hands and all will be well, I have no doubt about it.

 

[Lesley07]

One time I heard a priest say that a priest can refuse to marry a couple who is living together while engaging in immoral sexual behavior. One of you might need to move out so that you two can get married in the Church.

 

[jmcrae]

One time I heard a priest say that a priest can refuse to marry a couple who is living together while engaging in immoral sexual behavior. One of you might need to move out so that you two can get married in the Church.

Yes, he certainly can, especially since living together before marriage is one of the signs of an invalid marriage - and a priest is absolutely forbidden to preside over a wedding that he thinks is not valid.

 

[underacloud]

I agree with one of the previous posters that moving out would be a great way to evaluate your relationship. I think that going through something so challenging before marriage is not a bad thing: it will either make you or break you.

I was once in your shoes. I moved out after a few months of living together when reality of living in mortal sin really hit me. It was the best decision and I never regretted it. It was tough for him because he just didn’t understand, but he did it for me. He loved me and respected me and sacrificed his own desires. I knew then that we would be able to go through tough things in marriage. We have had some really difficult things happen in our marriage and we managed to get out of them better and stronger.

It could happen that your fiancé doesn’t react in the same way. I know of a couple of relationships that ended when one party converted/reverted. But as you have said to another poster, that is not a tragedy but something positive: the person is free to find a spouse that God wants them to have. I’m sure you know this already, but it is good be reminded of reality. It helps us keep things in perspective.

Hope this has helped a bit. God bless.

I think this is good advice.

There’s a lot of advice here so far to move things along and get married ASAP. And I do appreciate where this is coming from.

But…

I wouldn’t be so quick to jump into that. I think you and your fiance need some time to reevaluate the relationship in light of your renewed faith. He needs time to adjust to this renewed faith and you need time to determine that he is doing this and that your marriage will be as you anticipated. Right now you have a skewed vision of your future marriage because you’ve been in a pretend marriage under a different set of rules. Many priests will not marry people who are currently cohabitating anyway. And there are good reasons why most parishes set a fairly long waiting time, because it is such a serious commitment and sacrament, not to be entered into lightly or as a remendy for current wrongs.

In marriage, for most Catholic couples, you don’t have sex on demand the way young cohabitating contracepting couples might. NFP requires periods of abstinence, and other times in marriage (especially following a baby) sex may be put on hold for an extended timeframe. If you and your fiance cannot stop having sex for a sufficient time to plan a wedding according to the timeframe set by your parish, then I don’t think it’s a good sign.

A big family wedding is a wonderful event. It’s a great celebration of the wonderful sacrament/vocation that God calls many of us to. I’d keep aiming for this, perhaps a bit quicker than before, and in the meantime put your relationship in the right - by moving out (as you say, you’re off to a placement soon) and by not having sex (if he can’t cope with this, then he’s not a suitable future husband).

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I think you and your fiance need some time to reevaluate the relationship in light of your renewed faith. He needs time to adjust to this renewed faith and you need time to determine that he is doing this and that your marriage will be as you anticipated. Right now you have a skewed vision of your future marriage because you’ve been in a pretend marriage under a different set of rules.

The above is so true, and I underlined the parts that should be stressed.

Things change when people (re)discover their faith. The relationship changes. Yes, you still do the same things on the surface: get up in the morning, go to work, eat dinner, iron your clothes, etc. But the whole focus of your life changes to God. If your spouse is not on the same page that can be seriously difficult for both of you. Being a faithful catholic goes so much deeper than sex and NFP issues. Maybe he is willing to get married soon so the sex issue is taken care of, but he will soon realise that there are other things about you that have changed because of your stronger faith and that you are not the same woman he fell in love with. Perhaps your boyfriend will not like feeling 2nd best and might see God as an obstacle and as a rival, since you are now starting to prioritise Him over the future husband. If a person doesn’t understand what having a strong faith in God is like, they can easily see things this way. This is something I faced in my marriage, for example.

It is easier when you are dealing with a Catholic since they understand things better than other people and they know ‘the rules’. But also it all depends on how willing they are to reconnect with the faith they grew up in and how far they can follow you on your journey. Because this has to become his journey as well if you are to be spiritually compatible. And this is something that can’t be forced.

So it is great that you are talking about the wedding and all, but please do keep in mind that the wedding will not necessarily solve everything.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

So I’m wondering if anyone has any advice for me.

I am engaged to the love of my life and we are both Catholics, but I have recently received a stronger faith. My problem is that we are living together and having sex with condoms, but I want to be abstinent until we are married. He is trying to understand how I’ve changed but doesn’t understand this and I can’t help him.

The major problem is how do I justify to someone stopping sex when you know you’re going to get married anyway? (We have also never had sex with anyone else). I’ve tried a lot of arguments and come up short. Saying things like it’ll be better to be married because then we have a sacred bond and are united with God hurts him because (he says) it’s like me saying the sex/our relationship hasn’t been meaningful for me, or like there’s all these rules we have to follow.

Anyway, this is really awkward for me to post but I’ve been struggling for nearly a year now and I’m a little desperate. The wedding date hasn’t been set and due to restraints on both our parts, would not be able to happen for at least a year.

I read most of the replies, and they are very good. One thing that jumps out to me from the original question is that your argument/discussion with him could be rephrased in another way: “Honey, we could argue all day over the merits of abstaining until marriage, but that’s not really the point. The point is that my faith takes this matter very seriously and requires that I remain celibate before marriage. My faith is important to me, and I want to obey its rules. Are you going to support me in following the rules of my faith or not?” That might be a little abrasive in wording - saying it a little more gently might be kind, considering you must be understanding that you did change the terms of the relationship. But the fact is that this is the real question, and will continue to be the real question when you get married. Because it’s not just celibacy before marriage, and not just learning NFP. Will he suddenly abandon condoms just because your wedding day has passed? What about in the time in NFP when you have to abstain? What if NFP is difficult for you and requires abstaining more than you thought it would require? There are other situations where faith will be an issue, particularly if you have children and are trying to raise them Catholic. But you can start here. He doesn’t have to understand and completely agree with the Church teaching - if he did, he’d be following it on his own. But he does need to agree to letting you follow it. If that can’t happen, then there really is a major compatibility issue and I would advise reconsidering the marriage.