How do you know God exists?

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Samuel_Monosov

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To preface, this is not a thread about atheism. If it becomes a thread about atheism, I request that the moderators remove it immediately. Also, I do not want there to be debates. I simply want to ask questions, to find out why Catholics believe God exists. It will just be my honest questions, honest questions from others, and Catholic answers.

No fighting. No atheism. No evolution.

Here is the first question:

How do you know God exists?

How confident are you that God exists?
 
To preface, this is not a thread about atheism. If it becomes a thread about atheism, I request that the moderators remove it immediately. Also, I do not want there to be debates. I simply want to ask questions, to find out why Catholics believe God exists. It will just be my honest questions, honest questions from others, and Catholic answers.

No fighting. No atheism. No evolution.

Here is the first question:

How do you know God exists?

How confident are you that God exists?
I’m 100% certain that God exists due to my inner voice that tells me so. It’s deep, and clearly somebody is controlling my inner voice!

Happenings that are beyond coincidental also point to an upper-realm of spirituality.
 
To preface, this is not a thread about atheism. If it becomes a thread about atheism, I request that the moderators remove it immediately. Also, I do not want there to be debates. I simply want to ask questions, to find out why Catholics believe God exists. It will just be my honest questions, honest questions from others, and Catholic answers.

No fighting. No atheism. No evolution.

Here is the first question:

How do you know God exists?

How confident are you that God exists?
I don’t know if I can explain how I knew He existed earlier in life-I just knew He did, but not until after many years of searching for Him- and I didn’t fully realize that’s what I was doing at the time because I searched in many places and many ways for Truth, for something “bigger” than myself. But the faith began growing from a tiny seed and blossomed, especially as I began to seek Him with even more earnestness and specificity. And at one point He revealed Himself to me in such an immediate way that I’ve never been able to ignore or deny Him even if now and then I still might feel I want to.
 
To preface, this is not a thread about atheism. If it becomes a thread about atheism, I request that the moderators remove it immediately. Also, I do not want there to be debates. I simply want to ask questions, to find out why Catholics believe God exists. It will just be my honest questions, honest questions from others, and Catholic answers.

No fighting. No atheism. No evolution.

Here is the first question:

How do you know God exists?

How confident are you that God exists?
I am not confident at all. Thus my “undecided” status. Many talk about some inner voice the experience, or a sense of peace they now have but didn’t have prior to becoming Christian. However, I was a practicing protestant a number of years, even served at a church as an intern for four years and planned to eventually enter the ministry. It’s a long story,b ut the gist is, other than intuition, I don’t know that I’ve ever experienced that inner voice people speak of. And peace? Well, life has been pretty hard. It can be difficult to discern a sense of peace in the midst of turmoil. But then again, I suppose that is when a person would most likely take notice of it.

Anyway, I guess I’m saying I have the same question. :confused:
 
God answers my prayers.I communicate with Him.

I am totally unworthy but truly grateful for all the prayers I have asked for God’s help and He has answered.
There have been times in my life when I have questioned God and His existence but I think we all at some time or another go through periods of doubt.
I am a cradle catholic but have a fully developed faith in my own right.I questioned so much during my life and my catholic education in convent school did not really encourage this.My father however encouraged us all to have questions and find the answers regarding our faith and political values.
I have lived through some very difficult and challenging times.I have gone completely off the rails.I love my life and am so grateful God has guided me and given me so many blessings.
The wonderful gift of motherhood,being a grandmother is so precious to me also.
I have been given wonderful opportunities some I have wasted and squandered and not realised what I had others I have always valued greatly.

I have the opportunity to share with others in my daily life of God’s love in my every action thought and deed.
I try to keep a good relationship with God.As in any other relationship it takes effort on both sides to make things work well.
I pray every day and throughout the day whilst I am doing my daily routine.I feel close to God and feel Him in my daily life.

I had the seed of faith planted in me.If I fail to nourish and water this seed of faith it will wither and die so I feed my faith with prayers and reading the scriptures and attending Mass.I know God exists and I love Him.
 
Here is the first question:

How do you know God exists?
Rational arguments for the existence of God. No inner voices, no personal revelations.
How confident are you that God exists?
Very. I live my life as if in 100 % certainty of it. However, I cannot reasonably claim that there is no room for any doubt (there always is, except when it comes to mathematical proofs). On the other hand, I would also say that the small room for doubt is no reasonable foundation for not having unconditional belief and faith in God.
 
I know that God exists through deductive logical proofs, namely, the cosmological argument (both Aristotelian/Thomist and kalam; I believe kalam to be stronger), the ontological argument, and the argument from morality (amongst others, that I do not believe are as strong: the quinquae viae, when taken as a whole, are incredibly strong - as each answers objections to the others - but taken individually are not). God is proved as certainly as is a mathematical proof (and indeed has been proved by mathematical proof: see Wittgenstein’s proof and Plantinga’s argument in the S5 modal logic, which both have been proved using automated theorem-provers on a computer). I am 100% certain that God exists.

Be sure to note that belief in God and faith in God are separate things. Even the Bible says, “the demons in Hell know that God exists and he is one.”

When it comes to Christianity, I am overwhelmingly certain that it is true, but I am not 100% certain, and it can not be proved - that’s where faith comes in. I believe Christianity to be true, but I can not prove it to be true as I can prove that a first cause of pure actuality (God) must necessarily exist. I believe it to be true both based on its own merits, and by elimination of competing faith-traditions by various other methods of logical argumentation (so that I know certain other faiths can not be true).

Note, that I have had no spiritual experiences, and am as baffled as the atheist when it comes to inner voice or supernatural peace (the atheist doesn’t need to worry about Hell). Emotion is not a valid method of determining the truth-value of a proposition.
 
  1. How do you know God exists?
Because my parents and grandparents taught me that God exists. 🙂
  1. How confident are you that God exists?
For one thing, I’ve been saved from death at least three times so far, and I credit my guardian angel with helping me based on it not being my time to die yet according to God’s plan.

First time, when I was three months old and was choking on the nose of a stuffed animal that I’d bitten off in my crib … my mom had a “funny feeling” she should come back to my room and check on me several minutes after putting me down for a nap … by then I was coughing and turning blue. Mom had to turn me upside down and pat me hard on the back until I coughed up the small toy part that was lodged in my throat.

Second time, when I was in kindergarten and happened to be alone getting off the school bus without my friend who would normally be there … snow was falling fast in the Buffalo, NY area and I found myself surrounded in a circle of hungry-looking wild dogs … God had arranged my life through His Divine Providence that I had seen Lassie on TV and somehow even though just five years old, I knew how to act in the presence of these dogs and was able to calmly call for Laddie to come help me, Laddie being a Collie Dog that lived two doors down from me, and this dog came to stand by my side until all the other dogs turned one by one and left, until Laddie walked me safely to my door.

Third time. Interestingly enough, I had given myself the nickname of “phoenix” before this particular life-and-death situation happened. Yep, was rescued from an actual fire, and a nasty one at that. My car caught fire with me in it when the fuel line broke. It had been a used car affordable to me at the time as a grad student at the university, and it turns out the fuel line had been defective and someone had patched it up rather than replacing it. All’s I knew is I saw smoke rising from the hood of the car and it wouldn’t go. Two men had come running from a long ways down the street and warned me to get out of the car, so I did. Within three minutes, the car filled up with black smoke and the window on the driver’s side melted and exploded in … I would have been shot full of molten glass. Told this story to a priest who said to me that the men were angels. Car was totaled. Police told me that in a fire like the one I had, at least 90% of the time the victim either dies or is burned over so much of their body that they wish they were dead. When I went to collect the insurance money, the insurance people looked at me funny and said normally after a fire like the one I had, nobody was left around to collect money.

Have had lots of prayers answered, but keep this in mind …
sometimes the answer is no.
Having God in your life does not mean your life will be problem-free,
that’s why they call this a “valley of tears” …
the Good News is, God is here to help us through.

:blessyou:
 
It seems logical. There is an ultimate answer to the hows and whys we exist. There is no present reason, good enough, substantial enough to rule out a creator. I think the answer to the scientific question “how we got here” is unanswerable will always remain unanswerable. Further I think it is unanswerable for a reason.

When faced with all the alternatives I have been exposed to, other than a creator, a first uncaused cause, they all pale in comparison. With all the quesitons that come with believe in a creator, they are no more of a mystery then the answers that come from a belief in something other then a creator.

How confident am I God exists? It’s a sliding scale. Never 0% and never 100% confident but always somewhere in between. Ceratainly more often then not much closer to the 100% side of the scale.

Given the story of Salvation History, the historical account of the jewish people and the continuity (if you will) of the biblical story, paired with what I said in the first paragraph, I feel a good degree of confidence He exists.

I feel we are all fools if He doesn’t. I feel if He doesn’t exist we are a miserable accident. It makes more sense to me to believe in a loving God who knows me, then it does to believe I am an accident of splitting atoms and that my conscience is nothing more the eletrical impulses in some grey biological goo.

It just makes sense He is who He is “I AM who AM”.
 
Putting aside the flowery eloquence,

God exists because the universe could not have existed through an infinite past. It had to begin. It had to come from nothing. Therefore, an eternal God created it.

Aquinas’s proof from motion ( i.e. change ) is basically one of the impossibility of an infinite regression into the past.

I’ve never had the shadow of a doubt that God exists. I was a cradle Catholic, but in my teen years I realized that if human beings were only intelligent animals, there would be no “good human beings”. Yes I know they are rare, but there are some.
 
I have seen His Son in the form of bread. I have smelled incense while praying. I am absolutely confident.
 
There have so far been some interesting responses which fit into three categories.

(1) The bread and wine at communion to inner voices to other very personal experiences. It is very unfortunate that these claims are unhelpful to me, so I will not ask questions about them here. Please pray for me that I have an experience like this, because that would most directly resolve this issue.

(2) Classical arguments for the existence of God - First Cause, Design, etc. I will probably want to address these first, and ask questions about them.

(3) Properly basic belief. I don’t know what this is.

(4) Something called S5 Modal Logic. I do not have the time or level of interest to ask questions about modal logic. If this is convincing to you, you can rest assured that I would be incapable of challenging the intellectual basis for your belief/knowledge that God exists. Please understand that I do not find this sort of argument convincing, because I do not understand it, and am unwilling to apply the time necessary for understanding it.

Other new Plantinga/Wittgenstein etc. arguments go in Category 4, except for Plantinga’s argument about naturalism, which I can understand.

Starting with the traditional arguments for God:

For the first cause argument in the form (That which began to exist has a cause; the universe began to exist; The universe has a cause).

How do we know that everything that begins to exist needs a cause? How do we know this cause is God? How do we know things cannot be self-caused?
 
God has shown me that he exists in ways that are not approprate to speak about in great detail. But in general, it comes down to a personal encounter for me.

Bible reading, prayer, Mass, Eucharist, rational arguments, theology… it is all part of it. It gets me close…

But at the end of the day, proof of God’s existence comes from being touched personally by God in an extremely profound way, a way which I cannot deny. Eventually that experience becomes almost constant and ongoing.

If you want a name for it then call it Gnosis… direct, experiential knowledge of God.

Put it in whatever category you want.

-Tim-
 
There have so far been some interesting responses which fit into three categories.

(1) The bread and wine at communion to inner voices to other very personal experiences. It is very unfortunate that these claims are unhelpful to me, so I will not ask questions about them here. Please pray for me that I have an experience like this, because that would most directly resolve this issue.

(2) Classical arguments for the existence of God - First Cause, Design, etc. I will probably want to address these first, and ask questions about them.

(3) Properly basic belief. I don’t know what this is.

(4) Something called S5 Modal Logic. I do not have the time or level of interest to ask questions about modal logic. If this is convincing to you, you can rest assured that I would be incapable of challenging the intellectual basis for your belief/knowledge that God exists. Please understand that I do not find this sort of argument convincing, because I do not understand it, and am unwilling to apply the time necessary for understanding it.

Other new Plantinga/Wittgenstein etc. arguments go in Category 4, except for Plantinga’s argument about naturalism, which I can understand.

Starting with the traditional arguments for God:

For the first cause argument in the form (That which began to exist has a cause; the universe began to exist; The universe has a cause).

How do we know that everything that begins to exist needs a cause? How do we know this cause is God? How do we know things cannot be self-caused?
Follow the voice of LOVE while rejecting thoughts/voices that lead to the folly of this material world. Pick up a good version of The Imitation of Christ.
 
There have so far been some interesting responses which fit into three categories.

(1) The bread and wine at communion to inner voices to other very personal experiences. It is very unfortunate that these claims are unhelpful to me, so I will not ask questions about them here. Please pray for me that I have an experience like this, because that would most directly resolve this issue.
God responds to faith-even a tiny bit of sincerity will do in my experience. We can pray but you need to ask, seek ,and knock, giving Him the benefit of the doubt. We don’t get fully satisfying ironclad proof before believing. We get the grace to believe-and yet the freedom to reject belief.
 
God responds to faith-even a tiny bit of sincerity will do in my experience. We can pray but you need to ask, seek ,and knock, giving Him the benefit of the doubt. We don’t get fully satisfying ironclad proof before believing. We get the grace to believe-and yet the freedom to reject belief.
I’m not willing to give the benefit of the doubt for other people’s experiences. I’m not willing to set myself up for belief. I’ll look, but I’m not going to give up healthy skepticism.
 
I’m not willing to give the benefit of the doubt for other people’s experiences. I’m not willing to set myself up for belief. I’ll look, but I’m not going to give up healthy skepticism.
No, you shouldn’t- others beliefs and testimonies are important-they give votes of confidence towards faith-and some are quite powerful. But all of that, reading the lives of saints, for example, and reading scripture, the Catechism, concilliar decrees, theology, etc, are all ways of striving to understand that constitute seeking truth which God is pleased by. If, OTOH, we simply end up preferring skepticism, then we’re probably still too proud to bend the knee to God anyway.
 
(3) Properly basic belief. I don’t know what this is.

(4) Something called S5 Modal Logic. I do not have the time or level of interest to ask questions about modal logic. If this is convincing to you, you can rest assured that I would be incapable of challenging the intellectual basis for your belief/knowledge that God exists. Please understand that I do not find this sort of argument convincing, because I do not understand it, and am unwilling to apply the time necessary for understanding it.
**(3) **Properly basic beliefs have to do with philosophical warrant for holding a belief: a properly basic belief is something which is completely intuitionistic, by my understanding, which can not be proved but is necessary for further discourse. A classical example is that of other minds. We believe, or know, that other minds exist, but there is no way to prove this (see solipsism and philosophical zombies, and brain-in-a-vat). I believe that Plantinga also introduced this concept, comparing the belief in God to belief in other minds, but I am not sure (he is by far the most original Christian thinker active today, Swinburne being a close second). His book God and Other Minds and his trilogy on Warrant cover this in far greater detail, but he is an extremely analytic philosopher: unlike Aristotle, Hume, Kant, and Nietzsche, a layman can not understand him: one must know the bases of modern analytic philosophy first, as he writes within that framework.

(4) The S5 modal logic is nothing but regular modal logic (and I assume you are familiar with at least basic modal logic, Kripke semantics, and possible world semantics, or you’ll not be able to understand any analytic philosophy of the last century) that’s been trimmed to make it easier to express (and easier to plug in to programs such as Prover9): it avoids superfluous iteration of qualifiers of different kinds. For example, under S5, if X is necessarily, possibly, necessarily, possibly true, then X is possibly true. Unbolded qualifiers before the final “possibly” are pruned in S5.

Plantinga takes this and argues also, if something is possibly necessarily true, then it is necessarily true. To justify, he reasons that if X is possibly necessary, it is necessary in at least one possible world; hence it is necessary in all possible worlds and thus is true in all possible worlds. It has much in common with the more modern, analytical forms of realism and/or essentialism (with all of the talk of possible worlds and such).

Wittgenstein offers a similar NP-complete modal expression of the ontological proof that is more suited for his style of thinking, which is the ultimate analytic: mathematical computation. However, both Plantinga’s proof and Wittgenstein’s are ontological proofs set in the modal logic; details of implementation differ (and weaknesses in one tend to be strengths in the other).

Now that that has been removed out of the way, if you would like me to attempt a classical proof (even if you tie my hands to Aristotelian syllogisms) such as the cosmological, ontological, argument from morality, principle of sufficient reason, the five ways, or even a teleological argument (I personally believe the teleological argument is extremely weak, essentially refuted by “the argument to poor design”, and am a poor defender of it in any case), I am more than happy to oblige, but I suggest we open another thread (something like: “Arguments for God: Cosmological. Point-Counterpoint” or something similar, if you get my gist) for it to be done in, as I am certain it will take many posts of back-and-forth (as you can’t raise objections as I go, only to the finished form), and would derail this thread completely.

Again, thank you for your honesty: “this argument is over my head, and I don’t give a fig to bring it down to eye-level.” That’s rare, and befitting of a Christian!
 
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