How do you know what's reality when two people differ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DarkLight
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DarkLight

Guest
When you’re dealing with a family member, and the way they see things seems to be so fundamentally different than what you see, how do you know what’s real?

I’m not talking minor differences, but when it almost seems like an introversion. The other person remembers that they said X and you responded with Y, and you remember that they said A and you responded with B. And everyone walks away feeling hurt and angry because it seems like they were just trying to work things out and the other person got angry for no reason.

Yeah, I know, it’s my mother again. If you asked her, I’m rude, make nasty accusations of her, demand to get my own way all the time, and don’t listen to her. If you asked me, there’s just no way to have a conversation with her that’s not completely harmonious

The question always comes…am I just seeing things wrong, is that why I’m so stressed? I’ve seen counselors before, but in my experience you’re going to get different and contradictory answers from counselors and a lot of sweet words about “figuring it out for yourself” with no guidance on how to do that (and a lot of frustration when you don’t seem to just get it). Will it really get better if I push to move out, even though it would be financially risky? Or am I just depressed and blaming it on my mother?

I’d love to find someone impartial that we could go to, but frankly I don’t think that’s possible.
 
Oh my dear…this is a classic case of gas lighting. I’m sorry you are going through this. :console:
 
DarkLight said:
When you’re dealing with a family member, and the way they see things seems to be so fundamentally different than what you see, how do you know what’s real?

I’m not talking minor differences, but when it almost seems like an introversion. The other person remembers that they said X and you responded with Y, and you remember that they said A and you responded with B. And everyone walks away feeling hurt and angry because it seems like they were just trying to work things out and the other person got angry for no reason.

Yeah, I know, it’s my mother again. If you asked her, I’m rude, make nasty accusations of her, demand to get my own way all the time, and don’t listen to her. If you asked me, there’s just no way to have a conversation with her that’s not completely harmonious

The question always comes…am I just seeing things wrong, is that why I’m so stressed? I’ve seen counselors before, but in my experience you’re going to get different and contradictory answers from counselors and a lot of sweet words about “figuring it out for yourself” with no guidance on how to do that (and a lot of frustration when you don’t seem to just get it). Will it really get better if I push to move out, even though it would be financially risky? Or am I just depressed and blaming it on my mother?

I’d love to find someone impartial that we could go to, but frankly I don’t think that’s possible.
Click to expand...
If you move out, you won’t have your mom gaslighting you–but you’ll have other stressors.

It really does depend on you as to what makes most sense.
 
Xantippe said:
If you move out, you won’t have your mom gaslighting you–but you’ll have other stressors.

It really does depend on you as to what makes most sense.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree. If you can’t move out, know that you are probably right and tune her out as much as you can.
 
kptrs said:
Oh my dear…this is a classic case of gas lighting. I’m sorry you are going through this. :console:
Click to expand...
Yeah. 😦

I don’t think it’s worth it, honestly, to constantly spin your wheels about whether or not your mom may be right about x or y detail, even if she occasionally is (broken clocks and all that). It’s generally unproductive to spend so much time rehashing the past, whether in your mind or out loud. The problem is when you’re in such close proximity to the unhinged person, they can continually try to derail your efforts at being a normal person with a normal life.

You know this already, but you need to spend your time figuring out how you’re going to not live with your mom. I think shortly after you accomplish this, it’s going to become a lot clearer what reality is and is not, and it will make it easier to avoid her trying to suck you in.
 
I also suspect moving out will improve your relationship and most allow you to set proper boundaries. This will offer you a chance to renegotiate your relationship on terms you can live with and where she has less power over you.
 
pensmama87 said:
Yeah. 😦

I don’t think it’s worth it, honestly, to constantly spin your wheels about whether or not your mom may be right about x or y detail, even if she occasionally is (broken clocks and all that). It’s generally unproductive to spend so much time rehashing the past, whether in your mind or out loud. The problem is when you’re in such close proximity to the unhinged person, they can continually try to derail your efforts at being a normal person with a normal life.

You know this already, but you need to spend your time figuring out how you’re going to not live with your mom. I think shortly after you accomplish this, it’s going to become a lot clearer what reality is and is not, and it will make it easier to avoid her trying to suck you in.
Click to expand...
You may be right. I suspect the fact that this is getting to me may be a sign I need to step things up on moving out.

I kind of hate doing it, but I may stop by the St. Vincent society tomorrow and ask what resources there are if I do end up needing them. I would obviously rather pay my own bills, but I might feel a little safer if there was a way to get a bit of help if I do end up with a month of extra-high medical bills.
 
1ke said:
Read up on gaslighting and how to counter or manage it.
Click to expand...
Although it’s a secular website, psychology today has a number of articles on gaslighting. Also there is a series on toxic parenting. The op can put bot those terms in the search engine.
 
DarkLight said:
You may be right. I suspect the fact that this is getting to me may be a sign I need to step things up on moving out.

I kind of hate doing it, but I may stop by the St. Vincent society tomorrow and ask what resources there are if I do end up needing them. I would obviously rather pay my own bills, but I might feel a little safer if there was a way to get a bit of help if I do end up with a month of extra-high medical bills.
Click to expand...
That’s a good idea. I suppose you could also look into loan deferment?

I also suggest coming up with a prioritized list of expenses. For example, if you get into a pinch, you should not be paying debt payments instead of buying food or medicine. (That sounds dumb, but credit card collectors will harass you, whereas the US Department of Agriculture is not going to call you up to yell at you for eating ramen, so people do sometimes wind up paying creditors rather than buying food.)
 
Xantippe said:
That’s a good idea. I suppose you could also look into loan deferment?
Click to expand...
The trouble is things like loan deferment are based on your AGI (pretty much everything from the government is based on AGI). AGI accounts poorly for people who have significant bills outside of what’s expected. It’s also a national average, and I’m in what’s a fairly high COL area.
 
DarkLight said:
The trouble is things like loan deferment are based on your AGI (pretty much everything from the government is based on AGI). AGI accounts poorly for people who have significant bills outside of what’s expected. It’s also a national average, and I’m in what’s a fairly high COL area.
Click to expand...
Bummer.
 
DarkLight said:
When you’re dealing with a family member, and the way they see things seems to be so fundamentally different than what you see, how do you know what’s real?

I’m not talking minor differences, but when it almost seems like an introversion. The other person remembers that they said X and you responded with Y, and you remember that they said A and you responded with B. And everyone walks away feeling hurt and angry because it seems like they were just trying to work things out and the other person got angry for no reason.

Yeah, I know, it’s my mother again. If you asked her, I’m rude, make nasty accusations of her, demand to get my own way all the time, and don’t listen to her. If you asked me, there’s just no way to have a conversation with her that’s not completely harmonious

The question always comes…am I just seeing things wrong, is that why I’m so stressed? I’ve seen counselors before, but in my experience you’re going to get different and contradictory answers from counselors and a lot of sweet words about “figuring it out for yourself” with no guidance on how to do that (and a lot of frustration when you don’t seem to just get it). Will it really get better if I push to move out, even though it would be financially risky? Or am I just depressed and blaming it on my mother?

I’d love to find someone impartial that we could go to, but frankly I don’t think that’s possible.
Click to expand...
Easy. Just record conversations with said person. Then when in doubt, “go to the tape”
 
DarkLight said:
I really, really don’t think this counts as “easy” in this sort of situation.
Click to expand...
Why not?

You indicate that you can’t detect who’s truth of a conversation is real. Since you cannot rely on your own memory or knowledge, just record it…🤷
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Why not?

You indicate that you can’t detect who’s truth of a conversation is real. Since you cannot rely on your own memory or knowledge, just record it…🤷
Click to expand...
…are you actually serious right now? Because if you’re trying to make a point, I’m not getting it.
 
DarkLight said:
…are you actually serious right now? Because if you’re trying to make a point, I’m not getting it.
Click to expand...
Documentation might give you peace of mind. It wouldn’t count to prove anything to your mother, but you could see the evidence for yourself whether or not your memory is actually faulty, by recording things when they are in fact fresh.
 
DarkLight said:
…are you actually serious right now? Because if you’re trying to make a point, I’m not getting it.
Click to expand...
Yes I’m serious. You often post about a problem with your mother but refuse the advice given. It’s as simple as moving out. Or recording the conversations.
But you don’t really like those solutions.

It’s called codependency.

At least that’s my opinion.
 
pensmama87 said:
Documentation might give you peace of mind. It wouldn’t count to prove anything to your mother, but you could see the evidence for yourself whether or not your memory is actually faulty, by recording things when they are in fact fresh.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but, I mean…the huge moral issues aside, open recording would be a blatantly aggressive move, and secret recording would be logistically impossible, not to mention highly illegal.

We’re not talking about recording a business transaction - we’re talking about recording someone in their own home.
 
Maybe the problem is one or both of you don’t really like the other person’s version, because it doesn’t suit the conversation at hand.

The only way 'round it is to always speak in charity.
No one has to “win”. You can have different views. If something needs to be amended or hurt feelings repaired, repair them.
Life’s too short to argue wit a mother.
Truly.
If you don’t at least try to smile and let things go, you will be plagued by this after she’s gone. It’s just not worth it…for the sake of your soul, OR your sanity.
I’ve known plenty of argumentative people. My previous boss (a priest) would NEVER say anything in response to some that didn’t begin with the word “NO”. Or “but it’s not even that” or “you don’t understand” or “no, we’re not going to go with your fubar idea”.

Yeah really.
I walked away while smiling at him.
Smiling. It was tough, but you can do it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top