How do you know what's reality when two people differ?

[Xantippe]

As far as grief itself goes…what way is there to handle it, except to acknowledge it and let it run its course? Perhaps the progress is to say “there is nothing I can do” rather than to keep trying to make her see.

I think it is.

Yeah.

 

[Elena321]

It sounds to me like a problem with communication and also a misperception problem-either on one or both sides.
It’s impossible though to be able to state whether it is you or your mum that is misperceiving without knowing the contents of the conversation.

 

[SuperHappy]

Yeah, but, I mean…the huge moral issues aside, open recording would be a blatantly aggressive move, and secret recording would be logistically impossible, not to mention highly illegal.

We’re not talking about recording a business transaction - we’re talking about recording someone in their own home.

While that may be true, your mother is gaslighting you and making you doubt what you know to be true. She makes you doubt yourself and your own memory. It’s as easy as using the voice recorder on your phone. It is for your own personal use to preserve your own sanity. I wouldn’t worry about the legality if I was being put in the mental state that you are.

 

[SuperHappy]

Sometimes the truth is that all the options are bad, and you have to figure out how to live with the ones you have, not the ones people say you should have.

Sometimes you are taking the path of least resistance.

It’s easier for you to live with your mother, allow her to feed and care for you and then talk about her terribly here on CAF. If she does so many good things for you that you moved back in after getting out from under her, you may want to reconsider how you speak of her.

If she is gaslighting you as you say, what is her purpose in doing so?

 

[SuperHappy]

You talk like it’s simple.

I’ve been moved out before. I ended up back with my parents because I was working too hard to try to make ends meet and my health couldn’t sustain it. I was skipping meals routinely because I’d come home and I wouldn’t have enough energy to eat.

There’s a lot you don’t see on here. You don’t see the fiddling with medications to try to figure out how to reduce fatigue. You don’t see the jobs I’ve put in for and not gotten (or the never-ending annoyance of investigating and finding out they’re not worth it). You don’t see the time put into trying to learn new skills.

Nobody sees everything on a message board. What I can see is that although you are talking terribly about your parents, they obviously support you physically and financially to a point that you went back to live at home after being out in the real world on your own. I think that even though you feel your mother gaslights you, she probably remembers things differently than you because her point of view is different than yours.

Many, many people have chronic long-term illnesses and they don’t even have a support system or parents to take them in.

I believe you need to pray for your own mentality and I believe you need to Thank God that he gave you parents that help you. And you need to realize that things are not always as bad as our minds sometimes make them out to be.

Do your meds ever skew your way of thinking, especially if they are constantly adjusting them?

 

[SuperHappy]

Then all you can do is love her and pray for her.
If the tables were turned, you would want the same.
Some of us greatly miss our mothers.
Just at least, think about it.

One hundred percent true. My mother has been gone ten years and I can’t explain how hard and different life is without her. When she was here there was always someone to lean on. Maybe she and I would differ on certain things but there was never, ever any doubt that there was one person on this earth who would absolutely accept me and love me and never falter.

The OP has no idea how different life would be without her mom.

 

[SuperHappy]

One has to let grief go, if it’s really a matter of grief.
If it’s something else, then compassion is the ONLY way.
Compassion & mercy.
All the best.

Perfect advice

 

[DarkLight]

Nobody sees everything on a message board. What I can see is that although you are talking terribly about your parents, they obviously support you physically and financially to a point that you went back to live at home after being out in the real world on your own. I think that even though you feel your mother gaslights you, she probably remembers things differently than you because her point of view is different than yours.

Many, many people have chronic long-term illnesses and they don’t even have a support system or parents to take them in.

I believe you need to pray for your own mentality and I believe you need to Thank God that he gave you parents that help you. And you need to realize that things are not always as bad as our minds sometimes make them out to be.

Do your meds ever skew your way of thinking, especially if they are constantly adjusting them?

I also know of a lot of people with chronic long-term illnesses who ended up on the street, or who ended up in long-term abusive relationships or even marriages because they were unable to support themselves.

As far as my mother…I don’t think she’s doing it on purpose. If I had to make my guess…she’s in a mentality where “I was hurt or upset by what someone said” makes it equivalent to “they said something wrong.” The trouble is she’s also in a mentality where telling her that her behavior is causing an issue for you is something she finds hurtful, no matter how gently it is couched. So I end up feeling like I’m in a place where we can’t work anything out, because anything that doesn’t say all relationship problems are 100% my fault is me being mean and spiteful.

Our last serious conversation…I said something like “I feel like I’m spending so much time managing your emotions, and the emotions of everyone in the house, that I don’t have enough left to take care of myself.” The immediate response was to ask me if I’d considered how what I was saying affected her. This was after talking at me for an hour about how bad my father was, comparing him to my sexually abusive ex (something I’ve asked her not to do), and following me up to my room to continue talking when I had tried to end the conversation. And I don’t think she understood why I had an issue with any of that.

 

[Xantippe]

I also know of a lot of people with chronic long-term illnesses who ended up on the street, or **who ended up in long-term abusive relationships **or even marriages because they were unable to support themselves.

As far as my mother…I don’t think she’s doing it on purpose. If I had to make my guess…she’s in a mentality where “I was hurt or upset by what someone said” makes it equivalent to “they said something wrong.” The trouble is she’s also in a mentality where telling her that her behavior is causing an issue for you is something she finds hurtful, no matter how gently it is couched. So I end up feeling like I’m in a place where we can’t work anything out, because anything that doesn’t say all relationship problems are 100% my fault is me being mean and spiteful.

Our last serious conversation…I said something like “I feel like I’m spending so much time managing your emotions, and the emotions of everyone in the house, that I don’t have enough left to take care of myself.” The immediate response was to ask me if I’d considered how what I was saying affected her. This was after talking at me for an hour about how bad my father was, comparing him to my sexually abusive ex (something I’ve asked her not to do), and following me up to my room to continue talking when I had tried to end the conversation. And I don’t think she understood why I had an issue with any of that.

You know, this sounds a lot like a long-term abusive relationship, too.

 

[SuperHappy]

I also know of a lot of people with chronic long-term illnesses who ended up on the street, or who ended up in long-term abusive relationships or even marriages because they were unable to support themselves.

As far as my mother…I don’t think she’s doing it on purpose. If I had to make my guess…she’s in a mentality where “I was hurt or upset by what someone said” makes it equivalent to “they said something wrong.” The trouble is she’s also in a mentality where telling her that her behavior is causing an issue for you is something she finds hurtful, no matter how gently it is couched. So I end up feeling like I’m in a place where we can’t work anything out, because anything that doesn’t say all relationship problems are 100% my fault is me being mean and spiteful.

Our last serious conversation…I said something like “I feel like I’m spending so much time managing your emotions, and the emotions of everyone in the house, that I don’t have enough left to take care of myself.” The immediate response was to ask me if I’d considered how what I was saying affected her. This was after talking at me for an hour about how bad my father was, comparing him to my sexually abusive ex (something I’ve asked her not to do), and following me up to my room to continue talking when I had tried to end the conversation. And I don’t think she understood why I had an issue with any of that.

If you are disabled and unable to work there are many programs available to you such as disability, food stamps. section 8 and welfare. Consult your priest and Catholic Services for help to get out of your parents home. It will be good for you and for them.

You don’t seem to have any love or respect for your parents from your posts yet you are fine taking advantage of the comforts of their home.

I imagine your mother feels terrible for you to tell her that you are managing her emotions and the emotions of everyone in the house. Have you thought that maybe they did not ask you to do any such thing? Have you thought that maybe the stress of caring for an adult child who cannot work or move out is stressful for your mother too? She has had to accept the fact that the dreams she had for her child may not come to pass because of whatever illness it is that you have. She has taken you into her home and taken on the expenses of an adult living in her home. It’s possible the strain of having you there is hard on her, you know? And then to have you telling her that all this is so hard on you.

Have a little consideration! Also I don’t know her age, but your mother may be experiencing some beginning signs of dementia. It causes some people to talk a certain way with no filter. Maybe you will need to care for her soon and then you’ll know the strain of being a caregiver.

Sending up prayers…

 

[pianistclare]

If one of my daughters said she was spending way too much time “managing my emotions”
I really think I’d tell her to get the heck out of my house. Seriously .
That’s pretty hurtful. That’s what I was talking about previously. If a person doesn’t want their feelings hurt, they should do everything in their power to avoid that kind of remark.
No bueno.

 

[DarkLight]

If one of my daughters said she was spending way too much time “managing my emotions”
I really think I’d tell her to get the heck out of my house. Seriously .
That’s pretty hurtful. That’s what I was talking about previously. If a person doesn’t want their feelings hurt, they should do everything in their power to avoid that kind of remark.
No bueno.

I’m not really sure how else to put it. This was after her having me sit down with her for an hour so she could talk to me about how awful things were going between her and my father and how badly he was treating her, and following me up to my room and keeping on talking after I was telling her I needed to end the conversation because of the mounting stress level. That kind of discussion happens almost every day I’m home, sometimes multiple times a day. And it’s very very common that the discussion is allowed to end only when she is done talking, no matter how much stress I’m showing or what I say that I can’t deal with it.

It’s very clear both that she’s very depressed and upset and that she’s turning to me as someone she can vent to freely whenever I’m home. I am not exaggerating when I say it can be multiple hours a day of listening to her venting, often of her saying very hurtful things about my father, even comparing him to my physically and sexually abusive ex boyfriend. She is very very often turning to me to go over everything that’s going wrong and asking me to come up with solutions, often getting upset and frustrated with me if I don’t want to participate. Many times practically every conversation with her, no matter how innocuous, will end up within 5-10min being a discussion of how awful things are for her. (I’m talking things like a discussion of the differences in bike culture in different countries turning into a discussion of how badly my father is treating her.)

I really do love her deeply - that’s why I want a solution to this, why I keep going back to try to figure out how to manage. But I often feel like I’m being treated as a live-in therapist. There’s a reason therapists have set schedules, and that they don’t counsel those who are close to them. I want her to get better, but I don’t feel that venting to me on this level is something that is healthy for either of us. And then she turned around and asked me why I was so stressed out and what she could do - I was trying to tell her that what I need is to not be placed in this position, that my stress level is so high precisely because her stress is being vented on me.

I think that’s the problem I’m facing. I don’t feel like there is any way to say what needs to be said - which is “I can’t be available to you like this because it’s too much stress for me” - that’s not going to be seen as rude and hurtful. I’m feeling like my only option that isn’t hurtful to her is to simply sit there and take it and try not to react at all (which usually doesn’t work). And that’s an option that’s obviously not good for me, even if I could do it.

 

[SuperHappy]

I’m not really sure how else to put it. This was after her having me sit down with her for an hour so she could talk to me about how awful things were going between her and my father and how badly he was treating her, and following me up to my room and keeping on talking after I was telling her I needed to end the conversation because of the mounting stress level. That kind of discussion happens almost every day I’m home, sometimes multiple times a day. And it’s very very common that the discussion is allowed to end only when she is done talking, no matter how much stress I’m showing or what I say that I can’t deal with it.

It’s very clear both that she’s very depressed and upset and that she’s turning to me as someone she can vent to freely whenever I’m home. I am not exaggerating when I say it can be multiple hours a day of listening to her venting, often of her saying very hurtful things about my father, even comparing him to my physically and sexually abusive ex boyfriend. She is very very often turning to me to go over everything that’s going wrong and asking me to come up with solutions, often getting upset and frustrated with me if I don’t want to participate. Many times practically every conversation with her, no matter how innocuous, will end up within 5-10min being a discussion of how awful things are for her. (I’m talking things like a discussion of the differences in bike culture in different countries turning into a discussion of how badly my father is treating her.)

I really do love her deeply - that’s why I want a solution to this, why I keep going back to try to figure out how to manage. But I often feel like I’m being treated as a live-in therapist. There’s a reason therapists have set schedules, and that they don’t counsel those who are close to them. I want her to get better, but I don’t feel that venting to me on this level is something that is healthy for either of us. And then she turned around and asked me why I was so stressed out and what she could do - I was trying to tell her that what I need is to not be placed in this position, that my stress level is so high precisely because her stress is being vented on me.

You have your solution, move out. God to your priest and to Catholic services for help. Apply for disability, food stamps, section 8, welfare. You don’t have to stay there if it’s as bad as you describe.

It sounds like your mother is under stress and a little kindness and understanding would be a good start to repairing your relationship. Have you thought that most people actually do discuss their problems with the people closest to them? Have you thought that maybe having an extra adult in their home is affecting your parents? I am sure they love you and want to help you but it is a drain to constantly have someone up under you and then to have them talking rudely and acting as if they are a burden in their own home? That’s a bit much.

You want to have every excuse why you can’t do this or that then complain bitterly about the situation that you refuse to change. Only you can change your situation, nobody else is going to do it for you! There are solutions but you have to take them.

 

[SuperHappy]

If one of my daughters said she was spending way too much time “managing my emotions”
I really think I’d tell her to get the heck out of my house. Seriously .
That’s pretty hurtful. That’s what I was talking about previously. If a person doesn’t want their feelings hurt, they should do everything in their power to avoid that kind of remark.
No bueno.

I agree pianastclaire!

There comes a time when you’re helping someone and then it passes help and that person is taking advantage. Once you hurt and criticize the person who is supporting you, that’s the line. If you can’t appreciate the help, care and roof over your head, you need to go.

If any child of mine talked to me that way, they would not be living in my home.

 

[DarkLight]

You have your solution, move out. God to your priest and to Catholic services for help. Apply for disability, food stamps, section 8, welfare. You don’t have to stay there if it’s as bad as you describe.

I have. The trouble is assistance around here is based almost entirely on income - you get assistance if your income is under X dollars a month. I can work, I can work full-time. What I can’t do is work at a level that supports myself once you account for that I’m paying another rent payment a month in medical bills in order to keep myself at the level where I can work. But my insurance is legally sufficient, so I’m ineligible for any sort of aid on that level.

I’m at this point basically already spending the same amount of money a month on meeting my own needs that my friends who work and support themselves are spending on their needs. It’s just that in my case the money that would be going to housing is going to paying my medical bills instead. But I’m getting what’s considered a good income and benefits for an entry-level worker, and because my income by itself is considered sufficient I’m ineligible for assistance.

It sounds like your mother is under stress and a little kindness and understanding would be a good start to repairing your relationship. Have you thought that most people actually do discuss their problems with the people closest to them? Have you thought that maybe having an extra adult in their home is affecting your parents? I am sure they love you and want to help you but it is a drain to constantly have someone up under you and then to have them talking rudely and acting as if they are a burden in their own home? That’s a bit much.

Then what would you say? What would you say when you’ve listened until you’re literally shaking with stress, until you can’t sleep at night because you’re dreading the conversations of the next day? Understand that I’ve given kindness and understanding until I literally have nothing left for myself, until I’m stressed and crying and nauseous from stress and there is no one there for me to talk to except people online. Certainly no one in my house is willing to listen to me talk. Is there any way at all you can think to address that that wouldn’t be found hurtful or rude?

Also, I know people discuss their problems with those closest to them. But keep in mind this is my father that she’s talking about. That brings a different dynamic in - I am his child in his house, not just her child in her house.

 

[pianistclare]

75 posts later…and your response is **still **

“but…”

Either you don’t really want anything to change, or you have to move. Both of you have to suck it up, and you have to seek treatment, and she has to seek treatment.
You are not responsible for your adult parent relationship. Boundaries have been violated by both of you.
At any rate,
Nothing anyone says is sticking, no matter which side of the fence they comment on.

Best wishes.

 

[SuperHappy]

Section 8 pays for your housing so your rent is prorated based on the income/expenses you have.

There is also medicare/medicade if you can’t afford medical.

I am sorry to tell you this, but you are obviously not “stuck” – you are choosing to live the way you do. You are not a “victim” which is obviously the role you like.

You and your mother have both violated a lot of normal boundaries but that is probably because you should be an independent adult living on your own but you aren’t. Your mother sees you as her child yet since you are an adult she also sees you as a confidante. She sees your relationship very differently than you do obviously.

Excuses are all you are posting, you have a reason why you “can’t” for each and every post. You are going to have to figure out within your own self why you like to stay this way, because at this point that’s all I can see. You like living there and you like complaining. You don’t want to put in the hard work of moving out and being responsible for caring for your own self.

Good luck

 

[DarkLight]

Section 8 pays for your housing so your rent is prorated based on the income/expenses you have.

There is also medicare/medicade if you can’t afford medical.

That’s not exactly how those work. Eligibility for section 8 is determined based on gross income, plus like in most states there’s a very sharp limit on the vouchers available. My area doesn’t even have vouchers open anywhere nearby unless you’re currently homeless.

Medicaid eligibility is based on income and whether you have a “suitable” insurance plan available to you. Suitability is based on whether you can afford the premiums. Since I have a legally suitable plan, I am ineligible for any sort of medical assistance from the government.

People act like “really wanting something” is some sort of magic that will make something happen. You know, I never wanted to take time off work in the first place, which is what led to me ending up at home. I tried my hardest to stay employed and to plan things out so I could support myself. It didn’t work. Got told I was making excuses and not trying hard enough then too, that if I really wanted to I’d find some way to make my health not be an issue.

I learned long ago that you get to pick from the options you have, not the options you want. And sometimes all the options you have are really, really bad and you have to try to figure out which one is least bad and how to make do with it.

 

[SuperHappy]

I learned long ago that you get to pick from the options you have, not the options you want. And sometimes all the options you have are really, really bad and you have to try to figure out which one is least bad and how to make do with it.

So if that is the case, and you consider your own parents to be the least band of really, really bad options, I don’t think that is a reason for you to stay with them and partake of their generosity. I feel really bad for them despite their obvious lack of boundaries. I would hate it if any child of mine considered me the least bad of really, really bad options. That’s heartbreaking to hear.

Every single post is met with some excuse as to why you can’t do this or that. OK, there is a waitlist for assistance, why are you not on that list? If something, God forbid, happened to your parents you would be homeless right? Better to get on that list now. And you talk about not being able to get aid from the government for insurance. I thought you said you weren’t working? Do you have private insurance? How do you afford it without a job?

I think in your case, you should have some gratitude for the advantages you do have with your parents and speak with your priest about your boundaries and how to handle your mother’s confiding in you.

 

[DarkLight]

So if that is the case, and you consider your own parents to be the least band of really, really bad options, I don’t think that is a reason for you to stay with them and partake of their generosity. I feel really bad for them despite their obvious lack of boundaries. I would hate it if any child of mine considered me the least bad of really, really bad options. That’s heartbreaking to hear.

Believe me, it breaks my heart as well. I do love her dearly, and I deeply desire a good healthy relationship with her. I am just afraid such a thing is not possible - whether I live with her or not.

Every single post is met with some excuse as to why you can’t do this or that. OK, there is a waitlist for assistance, why are you not on that list? If something, God forbid, happened to your parents you would be homeless right? Better to get on that list now. And you talk about not being able to get aid from the government for insurance. I thought you said you weren’t working? Do you have private insurance? How do you afford it without a job?

I am working full-time right now, it’s just that my income from working isn’t sufficient to meet my expenses once healthcare is included. But because I’m working my income is considered too high for assistance, and because I am capable of 40 hours a week of work while I am receiving proper treatment, I’m not legally disabled.

With section 8 here, there isn’t even a waitlist. It’s just not accepting new applications at all. You might be able to get one if you’re actually homeless, but I wouldn’t count on that.

I did mention, as background, that there was a period of time where I was unable to work due to health problems - and that I got the same “you always have an excuse” talk from a lot of people who didn’t want to accept that a young adult might not be able to find a way to keep working. So I’m very skeptical of that kind of talk.

I think in your case, you should have some gratitude for the advantages you do have with your parents and speak with your priest about your boundaries and how to handle your mother’s confiding in you.

I’ve talked to my priest and more to our deacon, and pretty much gotten the same answer - if she has decided that any boundary I set is hurtful to her, there’s not much I can do other than try to find a better job (which I am doing). And in the meantime try to stay out of her way.