How do you know when to consider divorce, separation, etc?

[samovila]

My husband and I have been married for a little over 2 years. Before getting married we dated for a year an a half. From the the very day he moved into the house after the wedding he’s been difficult for me to get along with and he has an explosive temper which leads to him yelling, throwing and breaking things, calling names, and acting very aggressive. Outbursts like this happen every 4-6 weeks. I’ve been trying to be patient and change my own behavior as much as I can (I’m not perfect, afterall, and I feel like I used to contribute to the escalation of our arguments). We’ve been going to counseling now since April (for a second time in our short marriage) for this problem. The counselor has given us some very simple advice, but my husband doesn’t seem committed to changing his behavior. He’s never hurt me, but this situation is not good and I worry about our toddler and unborn baby growing up in a house where this is normal. Am I obligated to stay with him through this? Even though he hasn’t hurt me physically, I worry it’s possible one day. Should I just wait for it to happen to really know that this is it? I would hate to leave him just on a hunch that he would someday. What is my obligation as a catholic to remain in this marriage? I mean, I don’t think divorcing a man because he acts like a jerk sometimes is a good idea. How do you know when to call it quits?

 

[Cari]

he has an explosive temper which leads to him yelling, throwing and breaking things, calling names, and acting very aggressive.

Children learn what they see. And they imitate what they learn.

What would your husband have to do to cross the line? Are you willing to wait around until that happens? What if it happens to one of your children?

Certainly no one here can answer this question for you. But those are some things to think about- and discuss with your priest.

You’re in my prayers-

 

[ks60]

Moving out for your and your childrens’ safety is not necessarily “calling it quits” It could be the reality check that your H needs to cause him to rally work to change.

If you are serious about moving out, develop a plan. Don’t discuss your plans with H because it could trigger a bad response. DO discuss your plans with a lawyer to ensure financial security during the separation. Discuss it with your priest.

Does (did) your H’s father act like he does?

Do you have family nearby who can help you?

Pray about whether you should move out. Remember, though, that the answers to your prayer could be staring you in the face.

 

[happyseppy]

Dear Samovila,

There are other kinds of harm besides physical injury. Experiencing what you are now, I’m sure you know this. I stayed in such a marriage for 13 years, and had six children grow up in a very volatile household. I have to strongly agree with a previous poster who urged you to consider the effect on your children. My family is paying a heavy price.

I also agree that consulting with a wise and loving priest is essential.

In the meantime I will pray for your family.

God Bless You,
Peace,
Kelly

 

[puzzleannie]

. I’ve been trying to be patient and change my own behavior as much as I can (I’m not perfect, afterall, and I feel like I used to contribute to the escalation of our arguments). We’ve been going to counseling now since April (for a second time in our short marriage) for this problem. The counselor has given us some very simple advice, but my husband doesn’t seem committed to changing his behavior. He’s never hurt me, but this situation is not good and I worry about our toddler and unborn baby growing up in a house where this is normal. Am I obligated to stay with him through this? ?

continue counselling
your behavior is not the cause of his
his own problems are the cause of his behavior and his inability to react appropriately to conflicts and setbacks
stop blaming yourself that is the first step in a self-destructive cycle of abuse and codependence

by all means continue counselling, as verbal anger is the beginning not the end of the cycle. the physical abuse will come, he has already hurt you, or you would not have sought counselling or asked for advice here. the damage on the children even if the abuse remains verbal and psychological, is incalculable. get personal counselling and make an action plan for leaving which you will not discuss with him but with your counsellor.

if you are asking does the Church require you to stay in this relationship if you and the children are in danger, the answer is no. yes you are obliged to work on reconciliation of that possibility exists, but you can to it from a vantage point that protects you and your children.

a man who abuses a wife will sooner or later abuse the children.

there are numerous threads on this forum on this topic with very heartfelt testimony from people who have stood where you are now, please search and read and benefit from their experience

we will be praying for you

 

[RobaynneM]

Abuse is abuse. You cannot sit around and wait for something bad to happen. For number one he should not be shouting, screaming and throughing a tantrum in front of your toddler and number 2 you are pregnant and should not be stressed out worrying about him and when is he going to have the next episode.

I am not saying leave him but you need to do something about his behaviour he should not think that it is exceptable for him to be having these tantrums. He is been abusive and soon he will get physically abusive (tough wood that, that never happens).

Your kids should not live in a home when the father is shouting and carrying on for himself. And he should think for himself that, that is not exceptable behaviour for an adult.

Pray about this but you need to draw a line somewhere. It is bothering you or else you would not have said anything. It is also obvious that it scares you a bit. And you should not be made to feel that way especially when you are pregnant. Been pregnant is the most happiest time of your life and you guys should be sharing that happiness. And you should be surround by positive things not a man having a temper tantrum for what.

My I ask what triggers him off to get into a tantrum. And please do not blame yourself. And another thing you do not have to be around a hostile man right now.

Pray about this and ask God to guide you in the right direction.

 

[samovila]

Does (did) your H’s father act like he does?

Do you have family nearby who can help you?

I’m really still pondering this whole situation… HIs father died when he was 15 and while his parents had some loud fights he told me they never did anything violent.

And I thank God all the time for my family. We are very close and they are very supportive of me. My parents (mom and step-dad) know almost everything that has been going on and are urging me to break up with him. I just don’t want to make that decision without deep consideration. My mom and real dad divorced when I was 3 years old. The permanance of marriage is something I value greatly.

 

[samovila]

My I ask what triggers him off to get into a tantrum. .

This really confuses me. We don’t fight about anything major. No money problems, don’t fight over kids, interactions with extended family. Nothing I would consider important. Whenever he explodes its with something trivial and seems to be more about control than anything else. Like if I ask him to put something away or pick something up or remind him to do the chores he agreed to do. On vacation he even threw a tantrum in the street because I was pregnant and hungry and wanted to go to a restaurant instead of a pub. I’m really puzzled. I guess because it doesn’t seem rational.

 

[teme]

The permanance of marriage is something I value greatly.

Excellent!

But remember, you can leave/separate yourself and your children from him physically while still being married. Situations like this are not either “Stay married in the house” or “Leave and Divorce”. Continue to work on your relationship, marriage, and remain loving to him. But if you have a shred of concern that he’ll harm you or a child physically or emotionally, do this work and loving from another residence.

 

[kage_ar]

Are you both practicing Catholics?

Have you met with your Priest to discuss?

 

[Liberanosamalo]

No, you are not required to be permanently tied to a man who is already causing you to turn yourself inside out to meet his unstated and unwritten and unreasonable expectations.

You are supposed to KNOW what will set him off so YOU don’t set HIM off? Like, want to eat for example, when he wants to drink? How inconsiderate of you, pregnant and all, to want to eat. You witch!

Hahah. Yeah, I was married to someone like that. Just how much DOES he drink, by the way? And aren’t public tantrums fun? He’s worse than the 2 year old, right?

Here’s a reality check: NORMAL men, when their pregnant wife needs to eat, can’t do enough for them to make sure they are okay and the baby is okay. Your queen bee is demanding you cater to him (and you will add to that the child and the new baby.) Just how much of a superwoman do you think you are that you can meet the needs of everyone while no one meets your needs?

You will bend like a pretzel to meet the expectations of the world’s most angry and unreasonable man, and it will make you crazy in the process. And what kind of mother will that turn you into? Your children already lack a father. (No, he’s not taking care of them. YOU are.) They deserve a mother who can devote herself to their needs rather than be scrambling to meet the needs of unreasonable daddy.

Don’t stick around till the next thing he throws at the wall is you. Been there, done that. Within 4 years, I was being grabbed and jammed up against the wall while he yelled in my face… about nothing at all. Just whatever I did that irked him at the moment. Food cold? I called my family? He had a bad day at work? I looked at him funny and he could “read my mind” and was sure I was thinking something I actually wasn’t?

All excuses to rant at me. You sound like you married his twin.

Eventually it goes beyond being thrown at the wall. Those were the good old days.

If this can be fixed, it needs to be fixed while you and the kids are safe.

Talk to a priest. Be totally honest about everything. The man you got doesn’t match the picture on the box when you bought it.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

And Samovila, what you have may not even be a marriage in the true sense. Does he even have the psychological capacity for a true marriage? I hope you are documenting all this, times, dates, behaviors. This type of behavior very early in a marriage is of great interest to tribunals during annulment proceedings. And I’m sure if you thought about it, you can see now that as you were dating and engaged, there were unmistakeable signs that you ignored, overlooked or excused. (Trying to be Christian and giving him the benefit of the doubt.)

 

[Norseman82]

This really confuses me. We don’t fight about anything major. No money problems, don’t fight over kids, interactions with extended family. Nothing I would consider important. Whenever he explodes its with something trivial and seems to be more about control than anything else. Like if I ask him to put something away or pick something up or remind him to do the chores he agreed to do. On vacation he even threw a tantrum in the street because I was pregnant and hungry and wanted to go to a restaurant instead of a pub. I’m really puzzled. I guess because it doesn’t seem rational.

Red flags here.

First, you mentioned that he had a tantrum in public because he wanted to go to a pub and you didn’t. How often does alcohol play a part in the violent outbursts?

Second, the violence over something trivial can be the worst kind, because it is so unpredictable.

He should get himself a heavy bag for the basement or garage and punch that if he needs to work off aggression. Either way, develop an escape plan now; it is possible that the violence may escalate after the baby is born due to extra stress, as well as legal issues if you take the baby after birth, or just the fact that you may be more dependent on him after the birth.

 

[samovila]

Are you both practicing Catholics?

Have you met with your Priest to discuss?

We are both practicing Catholics. I am very faithful and he seemed moreso before we were married.
I’m reluctant to meet with my priest. My husband doesn’t like him and he’s Vietnamese so, while I think he’s a wonderful priest, being of different cultures I don’t really feel like I can relate to him.

In regards to separating while we work things out, I worry that I won’t be able to ever get back together again. He was able to hide this tempermental side of his personality while we were dating and I only saw it after we spent at least a month living together. If I move out with the kiddo, how would I ever know if things were well enough to move back home? He and I talked a little about this last night and he brought up him leaving home. I didn’t even mention me leaving because I want to save that as a last resort. At this time, we’ve got an appointment scheduled with the counselor tomorrow and I’d like to see what kind of insight he has into the matter before I start forming any conclusions.

Thanks so much to everyone who have given me some advice so far. I really appreciate having a place to post my situation in order to get some un-biased (name removed by moderator)ut. You really don’t know my husband or I and can’t take sides based on friendship.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

This really confuses me. We don’t fight about anything major. No money problems, don’t fight over kids, interactions with extended family. Nothing I would consider important. Whenever he explodes its with something trivial and seems to be more about control than anything else. Like if I ask him to put something away or pick something up or remind him to do the chores he agreed to do. On vacation he even threw a tantrum in the street because I was pregnant and hungry and wanted to go to a restaurant instead of a pub. I’m really puzzled. I guess because it doesn’t seem rational.

I would hope that you are not considering leaving your husband over the advise of a bunch anonomis strangers that you have no idea what their motives are. It is easy for them to tell you to leave him because it helps them deal with their own depression.

Ask your husband to go to the doctor, it might be a chemical or sugar imbalance or stress at work or something else.

Talk to your priest and maybe he can give you good rock solid counseling. Especially since he is from a culture that values marriage.

 

[samovila]

How often does alcohol play a part in the violent outbursts?

He doesn’t drink often and when he does it might be 1-3 beers in an evening. Once or twice, though, I do think excessive alcohol made his temper even worse than normal. He was more aggressive, had less control over himself, and even less capacity to be reasonable.

 

[samovila]

No, you are not required to be permanently tied to a man who is already causing you to turn yourself inside out to meet his unstated and unwritten and unreasonable expectations.

You are supposed to KNOW what will set him off so YOU don’t set HIM off? Like, want to eat for example, when he wants to drink? How inconsiderate of you, pregnant and all, to want to eat. You witch!

Hahah. Yeah, I was married to someone like that. Just how much DOES he drink, by the way? And aren’t public tantrums fun? He’s worse than the 2 year old, right?

Here’s a reality check: NORMAL men, when their pregnant wife needs to eat, can’t do enough for them to make sure they are okay and the baby is okay. Your queen bee is demanding you cater to him (and you will add to that the child and the new baby.) Just how much of a superwoman do you think you are that you can meet the needs of everyone while no one meets your needs?

You will bend like a pretzel to meet the expectations of the world’s most angry and unreasonable man, and it will make you crazy in the process. And what kind of mother will that turn you into? Your children already lack a father. (No, he’s not taking care of them. YOU are.) They deserve a mother who can devote herself to their needs rather than be scrambling to meet the needs of unreasonable daddy.

Don’t stick around till the next thing he throws at the wall is you. Been there, done that. Within 4 years, I was being grabbed and jammed up against the wall while he yelled in my face… about nothing at all. Just whatever I did that irked him at the moment. Food cold? I called my family? He had a bad day at work? I looked at him funny and he could “read my mind” and was sure I was thinking something I actually wasn’t?

All excuses to rant at me. You sound like you married his twin.

Eventually it goes beyond being thrown at the wall. Those were the good old days.

If this can be fixed, it needs to be fixed while you and the kids are safe.

Talk to a priest. Be totally honest about everything. The man you got doesn’t match the picture on the box when you bought it.

You brought tears to my eyes with your post. You address a lot of things I try to ignore and you even identify my worst fears that his behaviour will escalate.

Funny you mention a 2 year old. When my daughter finally reached the toddler stage and started throwing tantrums, I almost had to laugh because he sometimes acts exactly the same. I had never experienced toddler behaviour before so I had no idea.

I guess I’m not convinced he will ever “throw me against a wall” or hurt me physically as you said. Is it naive to think that? Is this an unavoidable downward spiral? Gee I hope my husband isn’t the same man you married.

 

[samovila]

I would hope that you are not considering leaving your husband over the advise of a bunch anonomis strangers that you have no idea what their motives are. It is easy for them to tell you to leave him because it helps them deal with their own depression.

Ask your husband to go to the doctor, it might be a chemical or sugar imbalance or stress at work or something else.

Talk to your priest and maybe he can give you good rock solid counseling. Especially since he is from a culture that values marriage.

Really, I’m considering leaving my husband because of his violent and agressive temper. Just taking in some advice from anonymous people who may have been in a similar situation. The counselor we see is actually part of a psychiatric group so I will mention to him the idea that the problem could be chemical and see what he says. You bring up a good point about the priest’s values. I’ll think about opening up to him.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Ted, I don’t give advice to anyone to do something as serious as ditch a marriage based on my own “depression.” Give me a break.

Quite the opposite. For the run of the mill person considering divorce my advice is as follows: Don’t divorce. Instead, gut each other in the kitchen with paring knives in full view of the children. It’s much quicker and less traumatic than divorce.

There should be no excuse for divorce.
I despise divorced people who say “We’re best friends now. We get along great.” If you can get along great, STAY MARRIED!

I tried for over ten years. Like many people with an abusive spouse, I can see in retrospect how it builds and escalates. No, I did not marry a man I could ever foresee spitting in my face or choking me, or smacking me around and cracking a bone in my neck.

I stayed because I was a “good Catholic.” And he used that against me (though he wasn’t a good Catholic.). But God doesn’t demand you ever put your own health, safety or sanity at risk to keep a marriage vow.

So unless you have anything of value to add here, don’t make nasty comments about those of us who have lived through more pain than you maybe know exists.

Her story sends up red flags all over the place, from his drinking, to his outbursts, to his lack of regard for a pregnant woman.

This is a very hard situation to deal with, because this type of offender does not admit he does anything wrong. And you can’t fix what you don’t admit.

I suggest the OP read the long thread about being married to a narcissistic personality. Not all NPDs become spouse abusers, but I’ll bet all spouse abusers are NPD.

 

[ks60]

I would hope that you are not considering leaving your husband over the advise of a bunch anonomis strangers that you have no idea what their motives are. It is easy for them to tell you to leave him because it helps them deal with their own depression.

Ask your husband to go to the doctor, it might be a chemical or sugar imbalance or stress at work or something else.

Talk to your priest and maybe he can give you good rock solid counseling. Especially since he is from a culture that values marriage.

Ted, you are an anonymous stranger, too. As far as our being depressed - I personally know someone who was in a relationship like this one, and it escalated to physical violence. At that point, a person’s esteem is so low they begin to feel as though they deserve the abuse, and continue to take it…

Sure, she can ask her husband to go to the doctor, but he may just ignore the suggestion and continue with his behavior toward his family. No problems will be solved this way.

Nowhere have you seen me advise anyone to file for divorce, But I will always suggest that any person who may be being abused to look out for his or her own safety and security, and that of any children.