How Do You Know Your Interpretation Is Correct?

[Gabriel_of_12]

To only target Luther about this widely held belief regarding the D-C’s is just historically one-sided.

 

[benedictus2]

Apples and oranges. You know the answer to this question.

Luther’s sin of false witness/impugning the known truth led him to separate himself from the teachings of the Church and come up with his own teachings, which did not have the guaranteed guidance of the Holy Spirit. Although they may have been just as sinful as Luther, the sinful “bad popes” did have that guarantee and never taught erroneously, as Luther did.

That is right and that is what exactly what I was trying to convey when I wrote.

benedictus2:

But then again, how do you account for the fact that in spite of their corruption, the bad Popes and bishops never taught error?

If we attribute that to the promise of Christ that her Church will be led into all truth, thus preventing her from teaching error, well then , we just go back full circle into the claim that the Catholic Church is indeed the Church of Christ. And if one comes up with that conclusion, then all I say, is “Come Home! We’re eagerly waiting for you”.

 

[Webby]

That is right and that is what exactly what I was trying to convey when I wrote.

Benedictus, a tree is known by its fruits. How can a good tree bear bad fruits or a bad tree bear good fruits?

PS. Do not assume a position for which one is not and in vain claim its inheritance despite clear & blatant violations against the boundaries governing that inheritance.

.

 

[benedictus2]

LOVE this, b2!! :bowdown: I now have a wonderful image in my mind to demonstrate this theological paradigm!

I presume by “food” you mean the sacraments, yes?

And if we die before “every cell in our body is like new again”, then that’s the purpose of Purgatory, right?

Also, may I use this metaphor in my future postings (giving you proper credit, of course!)

You can use this and you don’t have to give me credit . The important thing is to get people to understand this.

And yes, it’s the sacraments beginning with baptism.And spot on with Purgatory as well.

I don’t know how anyone can think we will get to heaven the same dung heap as we started when it says in revelation that nothing unclean will get to heaven. Perhaps the dung heap detector cannot penetrate several layers of snow.

 

[benedictus2]

Benedictus, a tree is known by its fruits. How can a good tree bear bad fruits or a bad tree bear good fruits?

Excellent point. Can we say then that the 30,000 or more protestant denomination the fruit of the diabolo (the devil), the scatterer?

 

[Webby]

You can use this and you don’t have to give me credit . The important thing is to get people to understand this.

And yes, it’s the sacraments beginning with baptism.And spot on with Purgatory as well.

I don’t know how anyone can think we will get to heaven the same dung heap as we started when it says in revelation that nothing unclean will get to heaven. Perhaps the dung heap detector cannot penetrate several layers of snow.

So if a dung heap knowing that it is going to hell, undergoes baptism and purgatory. Will that dung heap end up in heaven? So God becomes a collector of recycled dung heaps?

 

[benedictus2]

The Lutheran position is that the righteousness within the regenerate is that of Christ, not our own. That is imputation.

Jon

Based on your answer, do you believe then that we get to heaven as “dung heaps covered with snow”?

What do you make then of St Paul’s writing that we are made a new creation?

 

[Webby]

Excellent point. Can we say then that the 30,000 or more protestant denomination the fruit of the diabolo (the devil), the scatterer?

What are the fruits? Are they demarcated by denominations? Certainly not. These are spiritual fruits. Not ‘denominational fruits’ as you might wish to claim them.

 

[benedictus2]

So if a dung heap knowing that it is going to hell, undergoes baptism and purgatory. Will that dung heap end up in heaven? So God becomes a collector of recycled dung heaps?

Excellent point again. You are making my case for me. By the the understanding that justication is by “imputation”, then it does seem that God is a collector of dung heap.

So just think about that.

 

[PRmerger]

Benedictus, a tree is known by its fruits. How can a good tree bear bad fruits or a bad tree bear good fruits?

While this may be true on some level, it is not an absolute. One example is Mormonism: they seem to show “good fruits” through their beliefs–strong families, good citizenship, moral uprightness–yet we know their doctrines are not a “good tree”.

 

[benedictus2]

What are the fruits? Are they demarcated by denominations? Certainly not. These are spiritual fruits. Not ‘denominational fruits’ as you might wish to claim them.

What’s the tree? Reformation/Protestantism
What’s the fruit? The 33000 denominations. Division.

Who is the father of division? The diabolos - the scatterer.
Who is Jesus? - the Gatherer.

 

[Webby]

Excellent point again. You are making my case for me. By the the understanding that justication is by “imputation”, then it does seem that God is a collector of dung heap.

So just think about that.

Precisely, purgatory or the process of it attempts to impute that justification.

The Bible however requires of REPENTANCE.

 

[larkin31]

While this may be true on some level, it is not an absolute. One example is Mormonism: they seem to show “good fruits” through their beliefs–strong families, good citizenship, moral uprightness–yet we know their doctrines are not a “good tree”.

No worse a tree than the Catholic one.

 

[Webby]

What’s the tree? Reformation/Protestantism
What’s the fruit? The 33000 denominations. Division.

Who is the father of division? The diabolos - the scatterer.
Who is Jesus? - the Gatherer.

That’s by YOUR definition.

According to the Bible…Galatians 5: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 gentleness, self-control.

 

[PRmerger]

No worse a tree than the Catholic one.

And no worse a tree than the agnostic one.

Actually, I’ll amend that.

Definitely the agnostic tree is much more capable of producing rotten fruit.

But, again, one can’t determine the “truth” of its tree absolutely by its fruit!

 

[benedictus2]

Precisely, purgatory or the process of it attempts to impute that justification.

The Bible however requires of REPENTANCE.

You’ve obviously got no idea what the doctrine on purgatory is.

Google it or better read up on it on the New Advent website.

The doctrine of purgatory is ALL ABOUT REPENTANCE.

 

[benedictus2]

And no worse a tree than the agnostic one.

Actually, I’ll amend that.

Definitely the agnostic tree is much more capable of producing rotten fruit.

Yes, I did see quite a load of worms wiggle out of that one

Seems even the worms can’t stand the stench

 

[larkin31]

And no worse a tree than the agnostic one.

Actually, I’ll amend that.

Definitely the agnostic tree is much more capable of producing rotten fruit.

But, again, one can’t determine the “truth” of its tree absolutely by its fruit!

I don’t see how any tree can claim, “My rotten fruit is less rotten than yours.” It seems a risible position.

 

[Webby]

You’ve obviously got no idea what the doctrine on purgatory is.

Google it or better read up on it on the New Advent website.

The doctrine of purgatory is ALL ABOUT REPENTANCE.

**I have no idea because its not in God’s word - The Bible. And thus I’m not required to know. **

I am however, aware of other institutional ceremonies that imputes wisdom in people by the wearing of ‘specialized hats’. But that’s outside the Bible too and also nothing to do with Christianity or Christ’s teachings.

Perhaps we can put that in too (make it a sacrament in the church) to make ‘christians’ wiser. Afterall, wisdom is also an attribute much sought after in the Bible.

 

[benedictus2]

**I have no idea because its not in God’s word - The Bible. And thus I’m not required to know. **

Here’s a simple debating rule.

If you are going to refute something (in your case the doctrine of purgatory), then you should know what the doctrine is all about or else you are making a laughing stock of yourself.

So find out first what we really mean by this doctrine, and then you will be better able to speak about it and hence debunk our claims.

I am however, aware of other institutional ceremonies that imputes wisdom in people by the wearing of ‘specialized hats’. But that’s outside the Bible too and also nothing to do with Christianity or Christ’s teachings.

And how did you get to here from our discussion on purgatory?

You’re very scattered my friend.

Perhaps we can put that in too (make it a sacrament in the church) to make ‘christians’ wiser. Afterall, wisdom is also an attribute much sought after in the Bible.

What has that got to do with what we were talking about. You’ve completely veered into another tangent unrelated to matter at hand.