How Do You Know Your Interpretation Is Correct?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bonarges
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I think this is it. I’ve challenged you more than enough and only can hope I’ve caused at least 2-3 of you to be less dogmatic. Perhaps not. As you have seen, I have arrived at the point in life where I have trouble with dogmatism since I believe God, whom I worship with a deep faith, is well beyond the understanding of any one set of doctrines.
Code:
But a few rejoinders in closing.

1. I have read the Qu'ran and am not in sympathy with dogmatic Islam. Fortunately, there are millions upon millions of Muslims who are not dogmatic. We often forget that four major Islamic nations - Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Turkey - have had women presidents or prime ministers. How about the USA? So, it's a complex matter and stereotyping ought to be done with great care.

  In fact, I have taught Comparative Religions on a college level. I hesitate to say such things because some out there are going to become more convinced that I am egotistical etc. That argument, so frequently used on CAF against dissenters, is ad hominem. It doesn't bother me, but it often is employed when counter-arguments are weak.

2. My main point, over and over, is that Christianity should be a 'big tent' so that millions of people like me, with our faith and our doubts, will feel comfortable in the church. A recent poll, for example, found that 43% of US Catholics don't believe in transubstantiation - maybe even more, depending upon how the question is asked.  This proves nothing except that I'm not an exception. I just am ready to voice my doubts shared by so many others. Plus the 30,000,000 who have left the US RCC altogether to become (1) evangelical Protestant, (2) mainline Protestant or, most likely, (3) nothing. I have become somewhat attracted to (2) because its seems to tolerate folks like me.

 3. Just to make the point: I have tried to understand Catholicism fully by spending time in a monastery, subscribing still to *Our Sunday Visitor*, *US Catholic*, and the local diocesan monthly. I also read *Commonweal* and *America* at the local library. As stated already, I have read the Church Fathers - well, many of them - including Clement of Alexandria, Anselm, Tertullian, Origen and Augustine to later ones, especially Thomas Aquinas. Their assumptions too often are based upon incorrect knowledge of the material world to instill confidence in me. I have read many of the encyclicals, watch EWTN with some regularity, obviously follow CAF, and on and on. 

 4. Someone suggested that I have 'atheist roots'. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was raised in a devout home and have a particular distaste for the writings of Hitchens, Harris and other contemporary champions of atheism. I would love to be a conforming Christian - and I certainly see myself as a Christian - but have trouble with traditional Catholicism and evangelical Protestantism. I feel the need to be honest. Actually - hesitate to say this - I'm inclined to think that my simple style of Christianity may better reflect the Jesus of Nazareth and his precepts than many churches with their narrow creeds, huge cathedrals, ornate vestments, hierarchies, etc. But I presume this will be cited as further evidence of my egotism. Is it more egotistical than to claim that you belong to the only true church and that all the other faiths are flawed, some badly? Just a question. By the way, I do admire the Quakers and their emphasis on peace. Yes, I guess I'm something of a preacemonger. Hope that fits in with the teachings of Christ. But the Quakers have too little liturgy and don't sing at worship.

 5. Anna Scott. Thanks for your encouragement to hang around here. But I've made my case and tempus fugit. 

 God bless his children of every creed, color and country. May religion become a bridge instead of a barrier.
 
I think this is it. I’ve challenged you more than enough and only can hope I’ve caused at least 2-3 of you to be less dogmatic.
I find such irony in this, from a man with quite a few dogmas of his own. 🤷
 
Roy5, you are reading individuals…how about reading the Universal Catechism that is the universal and combined faith expression of morality held by all that was developed by many???
 
Welcome, Julia…

I had problems with the computer hardware…I have this that comes from Spirit Daily, August 6…

opiniatedcatholic.blogspot.com/.../how-first-atomic-bomb-became named.html

Or go to archives at SpiritDaily to August 6…it has several posts to Robert Moynihan’s essay written for the Inside the Vatican Magazine…

Last statement says…

And I share this to honor the assumption of Mary, hers and Christ’s glorified state, for us to endure in the Cross and charity…so that we as well may share the glorified life with them and each other…

"Between Hiroshima and Christ, between “Trinity” and the Trinity, between scientists humbly seeking truth and scientists harnessing unprecedented powers to ‘become as gods’ or even ‘death’, there is an unfathomable connection.

What it is may not be expressed in words.

There is only sorrow, and silence."
 
Hi, KathleenGee,

Violence is an unpreventable and regreable part of not only our individual lives - but, all of human existence. Part of this violence is recorded in the Old Testament - part is also recorded in the New Testament (the Passion of Christ possibly being one of the most violent accounts in the entire Bible). And, history holds a continuation of violent stories - with the promise of the world ending in cosmic violence. There really is no escaping this - and this is a reality I wish were different.
Tqualey,

I am not redefining the Old Testament…I am simply speaking subjectively from the sensitivity as a Christian who renounces violence through the redemptive love of Jesus Christ.

God gave the Jews the promised land of Israel…even though the Sinai Covenant was already broken by them before they even got there. It could only be restored through Jesus Christ.

Looking at problems since the beginning of Salvation History, the tribal fratricide continues and plays a part in this plan. I again refer to Roy Shoeman’s book and website…'salvation is from the Jews…God had to protect the preservation of the Jewish people and their existence to bring forth the Messiah.

However when Christ came, He was not how they expected…and He worked to make amends among people, and gave healing and new life to those who believed in HIm.

There is a progression of civility among peoples (Muslims rejecting violence and killing in name of religion as one) of the world that parallels the inhumanity of man towards man…with ever more development of sadism and horrific scientific tools to destroy all of us in a matter of now seconds…man made diseases, and so on…
There is no doubt about it, Kathleen, things seemingly have gotten progressively more violent - or maybe it just seems that way. Admittedly, the ancients did not have nuclear weapons - but, Greek Fire did a lot of damage in its day, as seige engines and canons rendered castles vulnerable. It should be noted that there are reports of Atilla the Hun throwing (launching) the heads of murdered people over the walls of protected cities - causing epidemics (the Crusaders reportedly did the same as did…and blankets used by people with smallpox given to US Indians - causing a real genocide).

My sense of history tells me that humanity has been moving up and down within a range of humanity and beastiality. I would not argue with you about things getting worse. But, I do not know what this means, besides civilizations do not exist for long after they reach an age of excess. And, considering how we here in the US have driven excess over the edge - I would say we have a lot to be concerned about.

God bless
 
How curious! Especially, since the Bible does not say it is the Final Authority.

In fact, it says something else is the foundation for our Truth, eh?

What church calls you a heretic based on the word “heresies” inserted in the Bible? :confused:
Hi PRmerger

Well because of the confusion i been under:: because of all them different churches on the protestant side. {Each claiming their the only true church} with the right doctrine.
and the rest are wrong. I thought there is thousands of different types. I will be for ever looking at each doctrine. Then comparing them with the bible to see who is right.:eek:
So i kept my self none nominal christian. I thought i will just read the bible by myself
And do what the bible is telling me. There are lots of Christians like that. Don’t bother going to any church. I got a few friends like that.+ My sister her daughter.
When we are together we don’t discuss doctrine. We sometimes Quote scripture at each other.
Example 1 when somebody is Judging you. You say who are you to Judge. Then Quote
Judge not or you will be Judged. If one of us is in real Sin you do point it out in case they don’t know. we all pray at times but mostly on our own. What i find the more you study the bible the more Sins you can find.

Lately i asked God to show me the true doctrine because i don’t know doctrine. I spotted the word {Heresies} listed as a SIN. So i studied the word heresy in the dictionary

HERESY: Means a Opinion or doctrine: In Opposition. To the Authorised Establshed Orthodox Doctrine} Of the Church.

As Regards which Church. From my study. It was the Apostolic catholic church up to 1054AD. But after that i am not sure about things. So i am looking at both
Eastern Orthodox Church+ Roman catholic Church.🤷
 
Hi Tqualey…

Yes, how we go up and down, people go forward in the Lord, then backslide…

There is a priest, who with other clergy, are saying we are seeing history unfold before our eyes…makes interpretations moot at present as far as I am concerned…and we are being admonished to pray constantly…
 
PR, I left my “comfort zone” about 7 months ago. I’ve released many false doctrines. I do agree that we are to conform our views to the Truth. I’m proceeding cautiously. 🙂

Anna
Hi Anna

What do you mean by ‘‘uncomfortable’’ and leaving your ‘‘Comfort Zone’’ I thought the holy spirit was the ‘‘comforter’’:confused:

I have been around plenty of different churches. especially some very abusive cults. They all made me feel very uncomfortable. All Claiming to come out of you comfort zone.:eek:

The truth makes me very Comfortable. When i am tempted to Sin or in Sin i am uncomfortable.
 
Hi, PRmerger,

Like Anna, I too find this curious. These people whom you have spoken to … did they give you a reference for the Bible being the FINAL AUTHORITY? The usual response is “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful…” 2Tim 3:16 - but, this in no way established it as the FINAL AUTHORITY.

If you like the term “false teachings” or “false teachers” better than heresies, than may I suggest those terms. The bottom line is that you have people who once embraced the Truth of Christ through the Chruch Christ founded on Peter (Matthew 16:18) and then embraced new doctrine - not from Christ. Not only are these people following the wrong master - they are causing others to go astray in the process. This is a great scandal - and, we are talking about nothing short of the loss of immortal souls.

Next time you talk to these people, get some references and do some research. I think you find that the Bible (even your abridged version…:eek:) your friends say is the FINAL AUTHORITY was established by the Catholic Church in about 400AD. So, don’t you wonder who was ‘minding the store’ from the time ascended into heaven (Acts 1) in about 33AD until 400AD if the Bible (both completed and approved Old and New Testaments) was not even established? The answer is the Catholic Church "…the pillar and bulwark of the truty… " (1Tim 3:15).

God bless
PRmerger

I have been speaking to people about what i have been learning here. They come up with Answers Like the bible is Final Authority. One said the word {Heresies} was wrongly Inserted in the bible. So the church can call us Heretics. He thinks Heresy is not a SIN.:eek:
 
  1. Just to make the point: I have tried to understand Catholicism fully by spending time in a monastery, subscribing still to Our Sunday Visitor, US Catholic, and the local diocesan monthly. I also read Commonweal and America at the local library. As stated already, I have read the Church Fathers - well, many of them - including Clement of Alexandria, Anselm, Tertullian, Origen and Augustine to later ones, especially Thomas Aquinas. Their assumptions too often are based upon incorrect knowledge of the material world to instill confidence in me. I have read many of the encyclicals, watch EWTN with some regularity, obviously follow CAF, and on and on.
If you are serious about finding the truth you will debate. That you adamantly refuse to do so means you are afraid to find the truth and still wrapped up in your little world of I/Me/Myself.

For someone who claims to have done what you have done in search of truth, this rather irrational fear to engage in proper debate is mind boggling.

So if you are serious you will debate. That you do not do so makes a lie of your claim that you sincerely desire to find the truth.
 
Hi, Benedictus2,

Good call! 👍 That should be the last nail in that coffin! 😃

While I have seen some tedious posts … these rants are in a class occupied by few others! :rolleyes:

God bless
If you are serious about finding the truth you will debate. That you adamantly refuse to do so means you are afraid to find the truth and still wrapped up in your little world of I/Me/Myself.

For someone who claims to have done what you have done in search of truth, this rather irrational fear to engage in proper debate is mind boggling.

So if you are serious you will debate. That you do not do so makes a lie of your claim that you sincerely desire to find the truth.
 
Thanks, Benedictus…I read Fr Schiffer’s obituary in 1983…spoke about it to my former pastor who was an activist protesting the nuclear submarines in our region. Catholicherald.co.uk for this week has it…the bomb going off the feastday of the Transfiguration…not only shows Jesus’ divine transformation, but also Mary’s and hopefully ours in the next life…and it has the article on the German Jesuits…
 
Thanks, Benedictus…I read Fr Schiffer’s obituary in 1983…spoke about it to my former pastor who was an activist protesting the nuclear submarines in our region. Catholicherald.co.uk for this week has it…the bomb going off the feastday of the Transfiguration…not only shows Jesus’ divine transformation, but also Mary’s and hopefully ours in the next life…and it has the article on the German Jesuits…
The first time I heard of it was when I bough a book on Fatima.

There was a section about them in the book because when they were asked how this could possibly have happened their reply was because they were living the Fatima message.

With so many medical examinations there after, it remains a baffling mystery to the atheist and yet something so very easy to believe for the converted .🙂
 
Hi, Benedictus2,

Good call! 👍 That should be the last nail in that coffin! 😃

While I have seen some tedious posts … these rants are in a class occupied by few others! :rolleyes:

God bless
It is perplexing how someone who continually engages in monologues can claim to be a seeker of truth. 😃
 
I thought i will just read the bible by myself
And do what the bible is telling me.
How do you baptize? In a river or with sprinkling?

What about celebrate the Lord’s supper? Do you use grape juice? Wheat and crackers? One cup or many?

And do you celebrate the Lord’s Day on Saturday or Sunday?

Just wondering…'cause even with folks reading the very same Scriptures there’s lots of different interpretations coming up about what it means.
 
Hi Anna

What do you mean by ‘‘uncomfortable’’ and leaving your ‘‘Comfort Zone’’ I thought the holy spirit was the ‘‘comforter’’:confused:

I have been around plenty of different churches. especially some very abusive cults. They all made me feel very uncomfortable. All Claiming to come out of you comfort zone.:eek:

The truth makes me very Comfortable. When i am tempted to Sin or in Sin i am uncomfortable.
Here’s an example of Truth that make me uncomfortable: it makes me uncomfortable knowing that some of my friends who have divorced and re-married are living in adultery.I’d much rather tell them that I’m happy that they found happiness.

However, I know the Truth of the Gospel, and it’s hard sometimes to live it out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top