How do you know your sins are forgiven?

[SteveVH]

That isn’t condemnation. That is church discipline.“For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. ‘Purge the evil person from among you’” (1 Corinthians 5:12-13).

I don’t think people should be kicked out of church. Hearing the word and encountering the conviction of the Holy Spirit is the best thing for people, and no one should be cut off from these means of grace. Yet, those who have been given time to repent of public, notorious sin and still refuse cannot be allowed to fully participate in the life of the church, lest they be upheld in their sin and bring shame upon the entire body of Christ. If they hold offices, they should be removed. If they have responsibilities in the church, they should be relieved. If they take part in Holy Communion, they should be prevented for their own sake and protection.

I can’t answer the question in the terms in which you frame it because Pentecostals do not put forgiveness and confession in that kind of box.

We believe that confession of sin can be made to God in prayer. Pentecostals see no need to confess to a priest or a pastor, though confession to a person could be appropriate. We are told “confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working” (James 5:16). The church, especially those believers who are spiritual, is called to a ministry of restoration (Galatians 6:1).

The retention of sin could mean telling a person living in known unrepented sin God cannot forgive them and because of this their activities and participation within the church of God is impaired/restricted until such time as repentance is evidenced. Once life is amended, the church can welcome the person back into full participation and fellowship because they are now in a state where forgiveness can be granted.

As Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “Now if anyone has caused pain, he has caused it not to me, but in some measure—not to put it too severely—to all of you. For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough, so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him” (2 Corinthians 2:5-8). What one person does affects the whole body, and if the church knows about it, it must act. Nothing should be done to condemn, but only to bring back to life and truth.

It could mean pastoral counseling of someone who is racked by continuous guilt over past sins and declaring that God has forgiven them.

Okay. We are not going anywhere with this. Christ very specifically, in no uncertain terms, gave the Church the authority to forgive sins. He did not give this authority to everyone. The question must be asked and answered. Why did he do this if all that is required is that we simply acknowledge our sin personally and ask God for forgiveness? Would it have made any sense at all to give this authority and at the same time say “but if its a little uncomfortable for you to confess your sins to another person you can just pray to me, so no big deal”?

Do you see my point?

 

[Publisher]

If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness .

 

[Isaiah45_9]

If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness .

How come Christ gave the authority to retain sins to the Apostles then?

Further, the unforgivable sin:

Mark 3:28-29
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
28 “Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—

 

[ltwin]

Okay. We are not going anywhere with this. Christ very specifically, in no uncertain terms, gave the Church the authority to forgive sins. He did not give this authority to everyone. The question must be asked and answered. Why did he do this if all that is required is that we simply acknowledge our sin personally and ask God for forgiveness? Would it have made any sense at all to give this authority and at the same time say “but if its a little uncomfortable for you to confess your sins to another person you can just pray to me, so no big deal”?

Do you see my point?

I see your point. My point is that Pentecostals do not see these verses in the same light as Catholics do. We do not see confession to church authorities as a must. We understand the power to remit and retain sin to relate to the binding and loosing authority of the church, i.e. church discipline. Part of declaring the truth of God is telling people that where true repentance is found forgiveness is granted and where there is no repentance they are not forgiven.

 

[SteveVH]

If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness .

Confess our sins to who? This doesn’t answer the question as to why Christ gave the Church the authority to forgive sins. Can you address that question please?

 

[SteveVH]

I see your point. My point is that Pentecostals do not see these verses in the same light as Catholics do. We do not see confession to church authorities as a must. We understand the power to remit and retain sin to relate to the binding and loosing authority of the church, i.e. church discipline. Part of declaring the truth of God is telling people that where true repentance is found forgiveness is granted and where there is no repentance they are not forgiven.

So Christ went to the trouble of specifically giving the Church the authority to forgive sins but isn’t a “a must”?

The binding and losing authority of the Church is the power to legislate, not to forgive sins. And sorry, but that authority does not extend outside of the Church that Christ founded. And, since we have now arrived at this issue, there is no one in the Pentecostal faith community that has the authority to either legislate or forgive sins. That authority resides in those who have Apostolic succession and is therefore limited to the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. Authority is handed down, not assumed by just anyone who wishes they had it.

 

[MaryT777]

I see your point. My point is that Pentecostals do not see these verses in the same light as Catholics do. We do not see confession to church authorities as a must. We understand the power to remit and retain sin to relate to the binding and loosing authority of the church, i.e. church discipline. Part of declaring the truth of God is telling people that where true repentance is found forgiveness is granted and where there is no repentance they are not forgiven.

Itiwn: I appreciate your posts for it has helped me learn more about Penteocstals.

 

[twocents]

So Christ went to the trouble of specifically giving the Church the authority to forgive sins but isn’t a “a must”?

The binding and losing authority of the Church is the power to legislate, not to forgive sins. And sorry, but that authority does not extend outside of the Church that Christ founded. And, since we have now arrived at this issue, there is no one in the Pentecostal faith community that has the authority to either legislate or forgive sins. That authority resides in those who have Apostolic succession and is therefore limited to the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. Authority is handed down, not assumed by just anyone who wishes they had it.

Looking at your posts-- i think your end game was what you said only the roman catholic organization ( and it associations) has the authority…

and every one else is deceived?

interesting – where i continually read here that catholics on this forum-- are struggling in sin-- — and all the efforts taught are not working…

Where as in other groups – i find more people – living in the powere and presence of the Holy Spirit-- and not being troubled by personal sin–

they call on the grace of Jesus and the powere of the Holy Spirit-- and they actually get freed–Huh,

who would have guessed that faith worked this way also

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Looking at your posts-- i think your end game was what you said only the roman catholic organization ( and it associations) has the authority…

and every one else is deceived?

interesting – where i continually read here that catholics on this forum-- are struggling in sin-- — and all the efforts taught are not working…

Where as in other groups – i find more people – living in the powere and presence of the Holy Spirit-- and not being troubled by personal sin–

they call on the grace of Jesus and the powere of the Holy Spirit-- and they actually get freed–Huh,

who would have guessed that faith worked this way also

It’s called being more aware of your sins because those who go to the Sacrament of Reconciliation have to acknowledge our sins. On the other hand when you keep your sins to yourself and oversimplify how to deal with them you will dangerously fall into moral relativism, which will put your soul at risk.

 

[ufamtobie]

With all due respect, what you write is contrary to current Catholic understanding. You set back ecumenism a 1000 years.

EvangelCatholic,

With all due respect, what I wrote is contrary to Catholic Church understanding, or yours? I will repost what I wrote to you again, below. Please explain yourself why is it contrary in your understanding and how am I setting back Ecumenism a 1000 years, when the Catholic Church has taught the same from the beginning?

SavingGrace, Regarding “Ecumenism”: Then why don’t you go to the Lutheran Church, see a pastor there, for your next confession? if you don’t, are you yourself setting back Ecumenism a 1000 years? I rest my case here, but like those infomercial say: “But wait there is more”

SavingGrace, All though you are afraid to say the truth or want to be politically correct, you know very well your sins may not be forgiven by Jesus Christ, if you go to confession at a Lutheran Church and the Catholic Church won’t want you to go either. So is the Catholic Church itself is setting back Ecumenism a 1000 years as well for not wanting you to go and confess your sins at a Lutheran Church?

Let me share a secret with you, the word “Ecumenism” should not even exist! Why? Because Our Lord only established one Church, the Catholic Church and no other. Amen

Not saying the Truth or by being “politically correct” is being mildly Luke warm, and what did Jesus Christ say about being Luke Warm.

Ufam Tobie

SavingGrace,

Only we Catholics are sure to have our sins forgiven or not in the confessional by a Catholic Priest, and by no other Church. As you know, they don’t have the fulness of the faith to receive absolution. that we do and this is only through the Grace of God that we do, handed on down to us by Our Lord to the Apostles and the successors of the Apostles to our local Parish Priests.

EO, and some Anglicans may confess, receive absolution by their priests and do penance, however, it is only a copy of what the Catholic Church has done from the beginning with Authority from Jesus Christ to do so.

I know you think I am wrong for say a “copy” and not knowing that their sins are truly forgiven, perhaps they are but does one really want to take that risk.

Tell me, if you could not find a Catholic Church nearby to receive absolution from a Catholic Priest, would you enter an Anglican Church that was nearby, for your absolution? I think not, for one you’re not Anglican and because you truly know, it is only a copy without the fulness, without truly knowing that your sins our forgiven you/us.

We should not ask if “Are you given a sign? Is it a feeling?” What is that. We should tell them the Truth! For many don’t no the truth and those that do, well, it is their free will to choose to come home or not.

And I am not saying that the Protestants are not saved, because they are saved by the Catholic Church.

Ufam Tobie