How do you know you're right?

[BlueShadow123]

Nobody ‘knows’ anything, BlueShadow, at least in regard to religion. What we all do have is deep belief, and we excercise faith in those things we believe. We all have reasons for believing whatever it is, reasons that are good enough for us.

The thing about religion is…the reasons for believing it are subjective, emotional, spiritual…not empirical. That said, I believe as I do because I studied it, thought about it, and prayed about it. I believe that I got an answer to that prayer (as I do to almost all my prayers, come to think of it, whether I like the answer or not). As a result, I believe.

When it comes right down to it, I think that most religious people say something similar. You can’t prove that God exists empirically…and if you can’t prove that God exists, how can you prove that one specific religion is the ‘true’ one? Nope…proof of deity–and proof of the Truth of how to worship deity, is found in a very different way.

The problem with atheists (most of 'em) is that they discount any other way of percieving Truth than through the scientific, empirical method. (shrug) by doing so, they are missing more than half of the wonders of the world.

IMO, of course.

Exactly. At least somebody will admit they aren’t too cocky about it when they can’t prove it.

 

[BlueShadow123]

My religion is an Integral Religion built upon Christianity. And I strongly suspect you are asking the question wrongly.

It’s like asking me how I know that a banana tastes that way. Or, it’s like asking me what a banana tastes like.

Can you describe the taste of a banana? Do you know of a book that I could read, and then after reading it know what a banana tastes like? Are there logical arguments that prove the taste of a banana?

I think your answer will be “no,” but if that is so then how is possible for you to know the taste of a banana? Should I not, with logic on my side, assert that you are not in fact certain about the taste of a banana, because you have no mathematical-philosophical-whatever proof that you explain to me?

Probably not. You know what a banana tastes like because you have eaten a huge number of them. In other words, you experienced it, though you cannot describe it. You know it very well, but you cannot describe it. You are absolutely certain that the taste is real, and it’s even vibrantly alive in your memory, but you cannot describe the taste to me.

That’s my religion. Not only have I experienced “the banana,” so to speak, but so have a large number of people around me. They affirm me and I affirm them, and that’s how I know that my religion is true. The suggestion that my religion is wrong is as ridiculous to my ears as the suggestion that I don’t know what a banana tastes like.

I like your response, scott. Made me think.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Let me take a stab at it, just from the standpoint of Christianity and not necessarily Catholicism:

Although we can’t prove the existence of a supreme being, there’s also no proof of how all the matter in the universe came into being. Without any proof that matter can create itself or that it has “always been there” (as some atheists claim), the only reasonable explanation is a supreme being or a god. So, if you choose to go this route to explain where we came from, which god do you go to?

I choose the Christian God for the following reasons:

Fulfilled prophecies:

A virgin birth prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 and fulfilled 800 years later in Matthew 1:18 and 25.

In Matthew 3:3, John the Baptist declared that it was Jesus whom was spoken of in Isaiah 40:3

The piercing of Jesus’ side in Zechariah 12:10 fulfilled in John 19:34

The birth of a ruler of Israel to be born in Bethlehem prophesied in Micah 5:1-2 and fulfilled in Matthew 2:1

The crucifixion prophesied in Psalm 22 fulfilled in Luke 23:33, including the division of Jesus’ garments in John 19:23

Christianity is also the only religion who has it’s god taking the form of a human, walking among us and performing the miracles of changing water into wine (John 2:6-10), casting out demons (Matt. 8:28-32; Matt. 15:22-28), healing lepers (Matt. 8:3; Luke 17:14), healing the diseased (Matt. 4:23,24; Luke 6:17-19), curing the paralyzed (Mark 2:3-12), raising the dead (Matt. 9:25; John 11:43-44), making the blind see again (Matt. 9:27-30; John 9:1-7), curing deafness (Mark 7:32-35), feeding multitudes (Matt. 14:15-21; Matt. 15:32-38), walking on water (Matt. 8:26-27), and calming a storm (Matt. 8:22-27; Mark 4:39). And, as if that’s not enough, the guy gets unmercifully and publically crucified and, a couple days later, brings himself back to life (Luke 24:39; John 20:27).

Which of all the other religions offers all this? The reason why I steer away from Buddhism, Islam or a Flying Spaghetti Monster is because this total package cannot be matched by any other belief system. If you’re going to believe in a supreme being, the Christian God is the way to go.

Listen to yourself. Just because something is written down, does not make it true. You can’t PROVE any of that happened, you can have faith in it though. That is what it is. Faith, you cannot come out and prove to me all that really happened, can you? We all know that is scientifically impossible, but if you have faith, you can ‘think’ it happened.
Thats my point, people like you just think you’re so ‘right’ without proof. At least me, as a believer in Christ, I admit that I cannot prove the bible, and that I know the bible is based ON FAITH, not scientific proof. There is no way possible that in todays world I can prove jesus was really born of a virgin. Because scientifically, that is impossible, but if you use faith, it is not impossible to ‘think’ it is true. See what I mean now?

Oh, and also too, you cannot prove the bible is the right religion. You could be wrong. It could be islam for all you know, but you believe and have faith that it is the right religion. Do you understand?

 

[St_Francis]

But there are things the catholic church teaches that are not in the bible.

Very true. Why does this bother you?

…You’re telling me that christianity is right because ‘the bible says so’. …

If you read 4 biographies of Einstein, a brief history of science, and several of his letters, would you think that you knew everything about the theory of relativity?

Consider the history of the NT. It was just several different documents saved by individual churches. The teachings of the Church were not contained in these documents; and the documents were evaluated in light of Catholic teaching when they were considered for inclusion in the Bible.

Thus while many denominations call themselves Bible-based, the Catholic Church could say that the BIble is CatholicChurch-based. See the difference?

We Catholics cannot say, We are right because the Bible says so, since actually the Bible has authority only because the Church has vetted those particular writings.

However, we can point to various things in Scripture as the history of what happened; for example, we can say, Christ made St (Simon) Peter His vicar on earth; it says so in the Bible. However, you are right in that we cannot base the legitimacy of the Church on Scripture.

See, this is what I mean. You are so convinced you are right but you are not showing me any evidence that catholicism is the RIGHT religion. What if you’re wrong? What if Islam is the right religion? Do you understand what I’m saying? You’re telling me that christianity is right because ‘the bible says so’. Well of course it does! The torah says its right too, so does the quaran.

The Torah is right as far as it goes. Consider that the Torah contains what God handed down along with a lot of history, and the NT contains writings about Christ and His teachings.

Now compare that with the Koran, which is said to be what an angel told Mohammed. Whree do you think you will find greater authority: from God Himself? or from an angel? (and remember that angels come in two varieties: the good angels, and the bad angels which we call demons or devils)

Christ performed miracles to prove His divinity. Remember the story where He forgave a man his sins, and the Pharisees said that only God could forgive sin? Then Christ said, which is easier, to fogive this man’s sins or to heal him, and He healed the man.

And after performing all those miracles in life, He rose from the dead Himself!

You cannot PROVE 100% that christianity is the right religion. You could be practicing the wrong religion for all you know.

It is true that we cannot prove Catholicism 100% *if the nature of the proof you want is scientific proof. *

Consider a court case. Many people might get up and explain why they think the defendant committed the crime: his hairs were at the scene, her blood was on his clothing, etc. Now, the prosecutor might not be able to “prove” the man did it “100%” in that there is no clear video recording showing the defendant committing the crime, but there is a preponderance of evidence showing that he did it, and the jury has to decide based on that evidence whether it is sufficient to show he did it.

In the same way, there is a lot of evidence for Catholicism, but we do not have videos of Christ performing miracles or appearing after His death. We have to weigh all the evidence and then decide, just like the jury does.

To me, the evidence is sufficient, overwhelming, in fact. I use observations that I and others have made about the world, the teachings of the Church, all the evidence from the Bible, and I even consider events which took place after the Bible documents were written.

For myself personally, as I wrote before, there is a cohesion in the teachings of the Church which goes far beyond the cohesion of any other system of thought. For others, other types of evidence will be a stronger influence on them. This is all very natural, but for so many, looking from so many different perspectives, the answer is found in the Catholic Faith.

If you are searching, consider praying to God that He show you which religion contains as much of His truth as He wants us to know.

 

[Ralph4454]

Listen to yourself. Just because something is written down, does not make it true. You can’t PROVE any of that happened, you can have faith in it though. That is what it is. Faith, you cannot come out and prove to me all that really happened, can you? We all know that is scientifically impossible, but if you have faith, you can ‘think’ it happened.
Thats my point, people like you just think you’re so ‘right’ without proof. At least me, as a believer in Christ, I admit that I cannot prove the bible, and that I know the bible is based ON FAITH, not scientific proof. There is no way possible that in todays world I can prove jesus was really born of a virgin. Because scientifically, that is impossible, but if you use faith, it is not impossible to ‘think’ it is true. See what I mean now?

Oh, and also too, you cannot prove the bible is the right religion. You could be wrong. It could be islam for all you know, but you believe and have faith that it is the right religion. Do you understand?

Are you looking for a video, dvd, or pictures of Jesus ascending into heaven? just trying to understand where your coming from, and/or where you’re going with this.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Exactly. At least somebody will admit they aren’t too cocky about it when they can’t prove it.

My friend I’m not sure what individuals you have encountered on your path in life. And can’t pretend to know.

Faith is a truth of the heart, its reach is beyond fact.

What Christology does is explain the purpose of mans existence in the universe. Which no-one else can explain. Physics, Mathmatics, etc and their God of “Order” remain silent on this topic.

The truths of Christology dates back thousands of years. We know today that there is nothing in the Bible which we have discovered through archaelogy and geography to be untrue. For example Exodus, all true, Sodom and Gomorrah all true, Christ and his Disciples all true, Cross and the Crucifixtion all true, David and Goliath all true. And on and on.

Theres thousands of years of documented history by many scholars who dedicated there lifes to this journey because of what started as there belief in faith. The gravity of what we do believe in and the facts which stand behind for all to see are immense. In my opinion I believe its nonsense to deny the rest. I believe its just a matter of time. But I don’t look at an individual who has non of these beliefs as any less or greater of an individual. Just another simple human being. Myself I Pray for their Souls

We debate here with respect specific points which we either totally disagree with or just don’t understand. Theres much to understand. And the more you do understand, the more you realize how little you do know. Ironic how it works.

Yet there are many ideals in life which work exactly the same way, music and a mastery of an instrument is a terrible example but gives the basic idea.

The point of if we are right, really beomes of no concern. If were wrong then we lived a wonderful life with devotion to family. friends, and values which make this world a better place to live for everyone. Like …Honesty, Love, Compassion, Peace, Humility etc, all of which are wonderful traits to strive for. And by doing so we gave the world an opportunity to move on in a positive direction to find whatever truths may lie in front of us.

And if were right, as I’m 100% convinced we are. Then the reward for never forgetting these four words “I believe in Christ” becomes eternal life as brothers and sisters with Christ.

The real question what if all those who don’t follow us are wrong? Then this life that they lived, which is a drop of water in the ocean of time. Becomes such a small piece of time in eternity that it wouldn’t show up on a map. The Soul is damned for eternity which the gravity of this is so great that we as humans can only “try” to comprehend. Just as we can only try to comprehend how wonderful eternal life in Heaven must be.

The very essense of what you believe is whats of importance. And you should put out for all to examine. Wouldn’t you want to know if you were wrong in your thinking? And to find this path of self, we must suffer all to share our secrets, or we have no safety from them.

If anyone in this world is wrong about anything in a peaceful belief how does that affect anyone who doesn’t believe what they do? It doesn’t, it would then become the act of taking their problem and making it yours? Why would one travel that path?

The idea of the BIble being a fairy tale no different than the Wizard of Oz, is a long over debate which skeptics abandoned decades ago.

Thus we arrive in the moment. The history of mans existance is the War of Good and evil. Really the only question is where do you fit in?

Gary

 

[dianaiad]

My religion is an Integral Religion built upon Christianity. And I strongly suspect you are asking the question wrongly.

It’s like asking me how I know that a banana tastes that way. Or, it’s like asking me what a banana tastes like.

Can you describe the taste of a banana? Do you know of a book that I could read, and then after reading it know what a banana tastes like? Are there logical arguments that prove the taste of a banana?

I think your answer will be “no,” but if that is so then how is possible for you to know the taste of a banana? Should I not, with logic on my side, assert that you are not in fact certain about the taste of a banana, because you have no mathematical-philosophical-whatever proof that you explain to me?

Probably not. You know what a banana tastes like because you have eaten a huge number of them. In other words, you experienced it, though you cannot describe it. You know it very well, but you cannot describe it. You are absolutely certain that the taste is real, and it’s even vibrantly alive in your memory, but you cannot describe the taste to me.

That’s my religion. Not only have I experienced “the banana,” so to speak, but so have a large number of people around me. They affirm me and I affirm them, and that’s how I know that my religion is true. The suggestion that my religion is wrong is as ridiculous to my ears as the suggestion that I don’t know what a banana tastes like.

Scott, that’s a marvelous analogy. I’m going to use it…with proper attribution, of course!

 

[dianaiad]

Exactly. At least somebody will admit they aren’t too cocky about it when they can’t prove it.

You didn’t read Scott’s post, did you? (edit…I see that you did. The question is, why do you feel the need to prove it to someone else? )

 

[dianaiad]

Listen to yourself. Just because something is written down, does not make it true. You can’t PROVE any of that happened, you can have faith in it though. That is what it is. Faith, you cannot come out and prove to me all that really happened, can you? We all know that is scientifically impossible, but if you have faith, you can ‘think’ it happened.
Thats my point, people like you just think you’re so ‘right’ without proof. At least me, as a believer in Christ, I admit that I cannot prove the bible, and that I know the bible is based ON FAITH, not scientific proof. There is no way possible that in todays world I can prove jesus was really born of a virgin. Because scientifically, that is impossible, but if you use faith, it is not impossible to ‘think’ it is true. See what I mean now?

Oh, and also too, you cannot prove the bible is the right religion. You could be wrong. It could be islam for all you know, but you believe and have faith that it is the right religion. Do you understand?

With the quibble that the bible isn’t a religion, you have a point…sort of. So. As a 'fellow believer in Christ," why do YOU believe?

…and remember, ‘faith’ and ‘belief’ are not quite the same things. Any number of people can believe something to one degree or another…to have faith means that you are willing to do something about it. “Faith” means that you are actually willing to behave as if what you believe to be true actually is true. “Faith,” in other words, is a verb.

 

[tskrobacz]

Out of the thousands of religions in the world, how do you know yours is right? I’m asking every individual that read this; how do you know you’re right on this?

Just a question.

Unfortunately it’s the wrong question…dualistic thinking (right/wrong) is not the both/AND thinking that Jesus taught. All religions provide belief systems or road maps, based on tradition, scripture and reason, that attempt to guide us in our life journey back to God.

Some would argue that Jesus did not come to form a new Church but to reform Judiasm. The division among Christian churches and all other religions clearly demonstrates that God’s greatness and diversity has never been limited to any human contrivance. While many have an ego need for knowing what is “right”, true faith draws us into an orientation of knowing the unknowable nature of God. From that vantage point we can draw on the wisdom of nature, the saints and all of the great religious traditions to guide us individually on our path.

 

[estesbob]

But there are things the catholic church teaches that are not in the bible.

You mean like the Trinity?

 

[Publisher]

You are the first quaker ive ever talked to. Question is: would you reason hold up in court?

It may not hold up in a “human court”…but then I’m not concerned what a “human court” would decide. God sees the heart…He knows “my anxious spirit” better than I do. The One who knows me best and loves me most is the only One I must follow.

I am on this amazing Journey…it is not the destination that is important…but the Journey that defines us…how we live in this world and treat our neighbor seems to be the Way to me.

I don’t have to understand all the theological implications of Deity…all the nebulous theological statements make no difference if our neighbor is hungry…or lonely…or in need of the basic necessities of life and I turn a blind eye…the story of the Last Judgement as told by “Matthew” is very telling…not one question did the King ask those who came before Him concerned theology, church affiliation, religious beliefs…but “I was hungry…thristy…in prison…and you did not help me.”

The author of James and 1 John didn’t seem too concerned about “transubstanitation”, “parousia”, “tradition”, “apostolic succession”, “baptism” or “eucharist”…but had much to say about how we treat one another…love one another…care for one another…and it seems to me more important than if the correct words were spoken over bread and wine…or the correct formula spoken when someone had water poured on their head or dunked in a pool or if the correct vestments were used or if the Meetinghouse had the “correct” art and furniture in it.

I don’t concern myself too much…if at all…of my “eternal destiny”…Eternity begins NOW…the Kingdom of God is present NOW…Christ is our Present Teacher…NOW…IF…IF “heaven” is in the cards for me…or “hell”…I’m not too concerned…“There is One, even Christ Jesus that can speak to thy condition.”…“He does all things well.” I am moved more by the plea of the homeless man or woman on the street corner for “spare change” than I am by the pleas of “heirling priests or minister” who need to keep the budget balanced…or new wing on the meeting house…or need for “donations” so new cushions can be purchased for the pews…when my neighbor lives and sleeps in a cardboard box and goes through the trash to find enough to eat. I have a difficult enough time dealing with the real life challenges in this world to worry about some “heavenly tribunal” I must give account to.

Would my reasoning hold up “in court”? Don’t really concern myself with how my life would “hold up in court”? I don’t know…but then I’m not too concerned with it if it wouldn’t…I just need to “mind the Light”…that’s enough for me anyway.

 

[Publisher]

Isn’t it possible that the writers of the New Testament read the Old Testament and just copied the prophecies?

That’s certainly more plausible to me. The life and story of Jesus as recorded in the gospels are the “retelling” of the Jewish story of God’s dealing with His people with Jesus cast as the “new Moses”…“new Joshua”…“new David”…“new prophet”…for me the gospels are “midrash”…the old stories of faith and love retold in a decidedly “Christian” motif.

The writers of the NT poured over the writings of the OT to “flesh out” their story of Jesus and made numerous references to the OT…in the NT.

 

[wmscott]

But there are things the catholic church teaches that are not in the bible.

True there are things that the Catholic Church teaches that are not specifically in the Bible. So tell me what things the Catholic Church teaches that is bad, evil, or morally repugnant. In looking at the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the teachings of the Church, I am hard pressed to find anything bad, evil, or morally repugnant. If you have examples please point them out.

Now I will grant you that there are teachings that many who enjoy a secular lifestyle or a watered down sense of morality find some teachings hard or impossible to follow e.g. birth control, abortion, or whatever. The point is that the teachings of the Church are moral and in line with Sacred Scripture.

You have to remember that the Bible is a book of the Church, not a Church of the book. In my opinion a church of the book is only limited to what is between the covers. Whereas the Church established by Christ, Who left us with the Deposit of Faith (LINK), Guided by the Holy Spirit, can and continues to be able to proclaim truths on faith and morals. I am not saying that the Church can be devoid of Sacred Scripture, for the written Word of God is just as the Spoken Word of God.

Let me back up for a moment and say that just because I have the opinion that a church of the book is only limited to what is between the covers does not mean that they are any less a Christian or have any less of a path towards salvation. Our Protestant brothers and sisters are good and holy people also who strive for salvation just like all of us want to do. They have the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation also. (LINK)

But the short answer to your question is that I have faith. Peace be with you.

 

[dianaiad]

True there are things that the Catholic Church teaches that are not specifically in the Bible. So tell me what things the Catholic Church teaches that is bad, evil, or morally repugnant. In looking at the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the teachings of the Church, I am hard pressed to find anything bad, evil, or morally repugnant. If you have examples please point them out.

Now that’s moving the goal posts with a vengeance–AND setting up quite a false dichotomy. Nobody here is claiming that the Catholic Church is 'bad, evil, or morally repugnant." One can be utterly convinced that one has the Truth in one’s own faith–without claiming that all those who disagree with you are…“bad, evil, or morally repugnant.”

 

[Publisher]

Now that’s moving the goal posts with a vengeance–AND setting up quite a false dichotomy. Nobody here is claiming that the Catholic Church is 'bad, evil, or morally repugnant." One can be utterly convinced that one has the Truth in one’s own faith–without claiming that all those who disagree with you are…“bad, evil, or morally repugnant.”

You speak my mind.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Very true. Why does this bother you?

If you read 4 biographies of Einstein, a brief history of science, and several of his letters, would you think that you knew everything about the theory of relativity?

Consider the history of the NT. It was just several different documents saved by individual churches. The teachings of the Church were not contained in these documents; and the documents were evaluated in light of Catholic teaching when they were considered for inclusion in the Bible.

Thus while many denominations call themselves Bible-based, the Catholic Church could say that the BIble is CatholicChurch-based. See the difference?

We Catholics cannot say, We are right because the Bible says so, since actually the Bible has authority only because the Church has vetted those particular writings.

However, we can point to various things in Scripture as the history of what happened; for example, we can say, Christ made St (Simon) Peter His vicar on earth; it says so in the Bible. However, you are right in that we cannot base the legitimacy of the Church on Scripture.

The Torah is right as far as it goes. Consider that the Torah contains what God handed down along with a lot of history, and the NT contains writings about Christ and His teachings.

Now compare that with the Koran, which is said to be what an angel told Mohammed. Whree do you think you will find greater authority: from God Himself? or from an angel? (and remember that angels come in two varieties: the good angels, and the bad angels which we call demons or devils)

Christ performed miracles to prove His divinity. Remember the story where He forgave a man his sins, and the Pharisees said that only God could forgive sin? Then Christ said, which is easier, to fogive this man’s sins or to heal him, and He healed the man.

And after performing all those miracles in life, He rose from the dead Himself!

It is true that we cannot prove Catholicism 100% *if the nature of the proof you want is scientific proof. *

Consider a court case. Many people might get up and explain why they think the defendant committed the crime: his hairs were at the scene, her blood was on his clothing, etc. Now, the prosecutor might not be able to “prove” the man did it “100%” in that there is no clear video recording showing the defendant committing the crime, but there is a preponderance of evidence showing that he did it, and the jury has to decide based on that evidence whether it is sufficient to show he did it.

In the same way, there is a lot of evidence for Catholicism, but we do not have videos of Christ performing miracles or appearing after His death. We have to weigh all the evidence and then decide, just like the jury does.

To me, the evidence is sufficient, overwhelming, in fact. I use observations that I and others have made about the world, the teachings of the Church, all the evidence from the Bible, and I even consider events which took place after the Bible documents were written.

For myself personally, as I wrote before, there is a cohesion in the teachings of the Church which goes far beyond the cohesion of any other system of thought. For others, other types of evidence will be a stronger influence on them. This is all very natural, but for so many, looking from so many different perspectives, the answer is found in the Catholic Faith.

If you are searching, consider praying to God that He show you which religion contains as much of His truth as He wants us to know.

I’m not searching for anything, I am a believer in god, but I admit that this might not be the ‘right’ religion. Islam might be right, the jews might be right. who knows. And you mention miracles. You cant prove that. You weren’t there to see it. Just because somebody else claims to see it, doesn’t mean its true. It wouldn’t hold up in today because its scientifically impossible. you have no proof whatsoever of it. Its based on faith. Faith, and only faith. And as a believer, I admit that it is only based on faith. I can’t prove god is real, and i certainly can’t prove any of the miracles in the bible are true.

 

[dianaiad]

You speak my mind.

…that’s quite a compliment, Publisher! Thank you–you have a good mind to speak.

 

[BlueShadow123]

My original question has stemmed into more points that i thought it would…

1. None of you really answered my real question because its unanswerable.

I asked how do you know 100% that your religion is the truth. The quaran might be the ‘true’ religion for all you know. They swear on their life and have a faith just as strong as you do in your faith. Do you understand what I mean? You may think this is the right religion, but you must admit that out of thousands of religions, nobody really knows until you’re dead which one is the truth because they all claim to be the truth.

1. A lot of you bring up miracles in the bible which is really funny because you all act as if there is proof for it, and there isn’t. We all know that without faith, none of those are scientifically possible. You think they are because the book says so. And? Thats proof of what? Nothing. Just because something is written down does not make it true. You need to understand that god is based on faith, not scientific proof. Some of you fail to realize that.
2. When I said that the catholic church teaches things that are not in the bible, and then somebody said that its the only true branch of christianity, I must ask… If its true, god would have made it be part of the bible, no? Sorta like some catholics believe mary was so holy that when she died, her human body rose right into heaven. Even though there is NOTHING in the bible about this. So why does it even matter how she died? Honestly, what the heck does that have to do with gods teachings? Nothing, that is probably why its not in the bible. It was down from generation to generation by word of mouth, and as far as im concerned its not true. But I don’t know for sure (I have no scientific proof). However the only way one could believe it is true is based on faith, not scientific fact because there is nothing in the bible that says it and there is no scientific proof to back it up either.

I just want you guys to realize that out of thousands of religions that all swear they are the ‘truth’, you have to admit that even though you guys ‘think’ yours is right, as believers, you must admit that you have a chance of being wrong. Islam might be the ‘true’ religion. See what I mean? You don’t really know for sure, because religion is based on faith, and if you think something long enough, it becomes true to you. But you still don’t know, you think its true, you don’t know 100% for sure. Second point I’m trying to get across is that religion is based on faith, not scientific fact. Faith and faith only. Unless you guys have some sort of real hard-core evidence god walked on water and turned water to wine? But you only have the bible, which is proof of nothing. Its faith. As a believer in christ, I at least admit that it’s faith that keeps me believing because without faith, you can’t believe.

 

[dianaiad]

I’m not searching for anything, I am a believer in god, but I admit that this might not be the ‘right’ religion. Islam might be right, the jews might be right. who knows. And you mention miracles. You cant prove that. You weren’t there to see it. Just because somebody else claims to see it, doesn’t mean its true. It wouldn’t hold up in today because its scientifically impossible. you have no proof whatsoever of it. Its based on faith. Faith, and only faith. And as a believer, I admit that it is only based on faith. I can’t prove god is real, and i certainly can’t prove any of the miracles in the bible are true.

BlueShadow…are you trying to find scientific proof of your religious beliefs? Would it make you feel better about your faith is you could find some?

You won’t.

But the thing is, that’s OK. I think that there is a purpose to this idea that religious faith is based on something other than science—please have patience and follow my thoughts:

Suppose that we could scientifically prove that God exists, and that one specific religion is the Truth and nothing but the Truth. Suppose we could prove it the way we can prove that water boils at different temperatures depending upon altitude. Suppose that we knew God Is the way we KNOW that the bridge we just crossed held us up. What then?

He gives us a commandment–and we, being human and fallible, have the same problems with His rules as we do now–only with a whole lot less excuse for disobedience. Zap.

No room for experience, growth or repentance, if we KNEW.

As well, it may be —OK, you’ve heard the saying that 'in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King?" Well, no. He isn’t. He may have an advantage in some things, but how in the world is he going to prove that the sky is blue to a population of people who have no idea of sight? They would have the world nicely arranged to be navigable without sight. There is absolutely nothing this sighted man could do to prove that the ability to see actually existed–they would find reasons and methods for why he could do, and believe, things that they think impossible.

…and it’s simply another sense that can be excercised.

The evidence we have, as theists, is like sight in the land of the blind; we can’t describe the experiences we have in a way that would satisfy those who do not have them, but the witness of the Holy Ghost is very, very real.

…and the sky really is blue. Most of the time.