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CatholicZ09
Guest
I agree, haha. I mean, a lot of these Lenten hymns are sugar-coated and derail the true meaning.
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baltobetsy
Guest
I’m sorry to say that the piano reminds me of either a concert hall or a cocktail lounge, depending on the repertoire. If I’m hearing a piano, I hope I’ll also hear an announcement about the organ being temporarily out of order.
Betsy
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Tigg
Guest
What a predicament we’re in. There is nothing I appreciate more than music that complements the sacredness of our Liturgy, but unfortunately, our music too, is generally quite bad and we have little talent in that ministry. If music is prayer and a lifting of the soul to God, it is an assault on my being to have to listen to the cantor who is normally off-key. (I have often wondered why those with the least talent seem to be the ones who volunteer for the music.)
When we get a particularily bad cantor, I cannot force myself to sing along…I am being truthful when I say it almost feels like a mockery to do so.
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mariyka
Guest
Although I’m more used to singing a capella, having been trained in the Byzantine tradition, I find that the organ helps when there are few strong singers in the congregation.
As long as it’s not very stylistic or “fancy”, a good strong voice to lead the congregation is great!
The song should never feel like it drags. It can be slow, but not dragging.
If the songs are not complex, it’s nice to try something new.
If the organ is played too elegantly, I end up listening, rather than singing!
Actually, if someone sang harmony, or if it was written in the song book, I’d love to harmonize. I’m just not a strong enough singer on my own.
I think it’s great you are asking these questions. Congregations are an untapped source of beautiful voices, that just need good leadership.
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CatholicZ09
Guest
A priest friend of mine once said in his homily that we should be happy that we are able to hear them sing off-tune and we shouldn’t judge them based on their faults.What a predicament we’re in. There is nothing I appreciate more than music that complements the sacredness of our Liturgy, but unfortunately, our music too, is generally quite bad and we have little talent in that ministry. If music is prayer and a lifting of the soul to God, it is an assault on my being to have to listen to the cantor who is normally off-key. (I have often wondered why those with the least talent seem to be the ones who volunteer for the music.)
When we get a particularily bad cantor, I cannot force myself to sing along…I am being truthful when I say it almost feels like a mockery to do so.
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sehrwunderbar
Guest
At my church we have a few organists, but I sing in the traditional choir whose organist is the leader of the music ministry (he’s also the president of the Pastoral Musicians Association as well).
He’s a great organist and also plays the piano on some pieces that are more soft in nature. I like the contrast, especially during more prayerful times. I really like his choice of hymns as well, he always talk to us either the Tuesday before or on Sunday about the readings and why the hymns have significance for that week. I really enjoy that!
He’s a great organist and also plays the piano on some pieces that are more soft in nature. I like the contrast, especially during more prayerful times. I really like his choice of hymns as well, he always talk to us either the Tuesday before or on Sunday about the readings and why the hymns have significance for that week. I really enjoy that!
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Tigg
Guest
A talent is a God-given gift and I don’t consider it a fault if they cannot sing, (but perhaps they would like to try another ministry) nor do I think of it so much as a judgment, but rather a conviction that music should give glory to our Lord and enhance the solemness of the Mass.
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Sarabande
Guest
I, personally, do tend to sing out more when the organ is how you described it. I’ve found that many others do as well. When I’m cantoring and the organ has that richness and fullness to the sound, I’ve always found that the congregation sings out much more. (It also helps if the organist is rhythmically correct and doesn’t change tempo.)
It’s hard to sing with a bad cantor either in terms of voice quality or musicianship, so, a good cantor makes me sing more.
Depends on the hymn. Something like “O Sacred Head Surrounded” shouldn’t be taken at a fast clip, at least in my opinion. I don’t like dragging hymns that should be faster. I have a naturally quicker inner-metronome, so when there is a hymn which I feel should be taken faster, that drives me nuts when it’s taken at a funeral dirge. But I’ll still sing. The problem with other people who aren’t trained vocally is that some of those hymns which should be taken faster are hard to sing at a slower tempo and thus, they won’t sing it. For the your everyday person in the pews, it’s hard to keep the legato or to just have enough breath for certain hymns if taken too slow.
One or two, but it all depends on how easy the hymn is and how appealing.
I love organists and pianists, but here are a couple suggestions for organists and pianists in general.
- When playing the introduction to the hymn, set the tempo of the hymn then. Don’t change it as soon as the congregation starts to sing. I’ve been to some churches where the organist will play a hymn introduction like in allegro, then suddenly slow it down to an andante.
- Keep the beat and play what’s on the page.
- Don’t ritard the last two measures of a hymn after each verse. Just do it when you’re going to actually end the hymn.
- Please, if you have it in your repertoire, please play those awesome organ preludes and postludes. There’s nothing more inspiring and uplifting as hearing a beautifully played organ work.
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tomylee1
Guest
yes i like our church music.
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napoli426
Guest
I would reccomend going to this site. It is the blog of a priest here in Vancouver. The music at this parish is the best. Also very Orthodox.
didobonaparte.wordpress.com/author/didobonaparte/
The Gregorian Chant and Polyphany is done mostly by the priest himself and his Schola.
Enjoy!!
Pax
didobonaparte.wordpress.com/author/didobonaparte/
The Gregorian Chant and Polyphany is done mostly by the priest himself and his Schola.
Enjoy!!
Pax
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Tigg
Guest
From the article:
I agree with this priest. Of course, I became totally spoiled at a prior parish before we moved back home, because we had a professional choir director and our pastor made certain that the money was in the budget to provide for professional singers at the Easter Vigil and Midnight Christmas Masses. He received some negative feedback from those who said the money could be better spent helping the poor. His position was that on our two most important feasts, nothing should be spared that would bring praise and honor to our Lord. It was a rare parish, truly Christ-centered, where truth was always taught and individual holiness was to be sought before anything else.
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Prometheum_x
Guest
Some random reflections on the questions asked by the OP:
My organ teacher tells me that it is important to find a balance – too soft, and people feel exposed and won’t sing; too loud, and people won’t be able to hear themselves and therefore won’t sing. One suggestion is to solo out the melody line, playing the remainder of the accompaniment more softly. The difficulty of course is that usually the organ console isn’t in a good location for determining the relative balance between the organ volume and the congregation’s volume. It is also important to give the congregation consistent cues – where and how long to breathe being primary. The cantor has a similar responsibility. There are obviously times when the cantor is proclaiming the text and the congregation is supposed to be actively listening, but when all are singing, the cantor ought to use their voice to lead, but in such a way that they are more singing *with *the congregation rather than singing like a soloist above the congregation. Again, breathing is very important, and it ought to be rhythmic.
I’m tempted to say that it is always better to do a simple piece of music well than a complex piece poorly.
I’m also of the opinion that there is nothing quite like the organ played well. There’s also nothing quite like the organ played badly.
As for the piano, I think it should be played with the same sensitivity required by the organ. Someone else complained about the piano reminding them of the theater, etc. The piano certainly can be played in this fashion, but it can also be played in a style that is completely suitable for sacred purposes. Since I am principally a pianist, and have only recently begun playing the organ, I feel that I am much more effective at leading music from the piano. There’s also some sacred music that sounds odd on the organ. There are ideals, but I think that each individual musician needs to identify and use their strengths, working to correct deficiencies as they can.
My organ teacher tells me that it is important to find a balance – too soft, and people feel exposed and won’t sing; too loud, and people won’t be able to hear themselves and therefore won’t sing. One suggestion is to solo out the melody line, playing the remainder of the accompaniment more softly. The difficulty of course is that usually the organ console isn’t in a good location for determining the relative balance between the organ volume and the congregation’s volume. It is also important to give the congregation consistent cues – where and how long to breathe being primary. The cantor has a similar responsibility. There are obviously times when the cantor is proclaiming the text and the congregation is supposed to be actively listening, but when all are singing, the cantor ought to use their voice to lead, but in such a way that they are more singing *with *the congregation rather than singing like a soloist above the congregation. Again, breathing is very important, and it ought to be rhythmic.
I’m tempted to say that it is always better to do a simple piece of music well than a complex piece poorly.
I’m also of the opinion that there is nothing quite like the organ played well. There’s also nothing quite like the organ played badly.
As for the piano, I think it should be played with the same sensitivity required by the organ. Someone else complained about the piano reminding them of the theater, etc. The piano certainly can be played in this fashion, but it can also be played in a style that is completely suitable for sacred purposes. Since I am principally a pianist, and have only recently begun playing the organ, I feel that I am much more effective at leading music from the piano. There’s also some sacred music that sounds odd on the organ. There are ideals, but I think that each individual musician needs to identify and use their strengths, working to correct deficiencies as they can.
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tomylee1
Guest
excellent site you post.
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napoli426
Guest
I’m happy you guys have good music at your parish. The priests blog which I posted is my parish priest. We have a professional music director. He is one of the best organists around. Also, we hire professionals at all the big solemnities. I hope all you go to this blog.
Pax
Pax
The_Reginator
Active member
- New songs per month?
0.05 (or less) I’d rather that our congregation learn from the great treasury of music that the Church holds. Teach us to use Gregorian chant! - Pet peeves about organists?
I’m bothered when the organist is accompanied by singing during Holy Communion. Almost all singing (in the vernacular) is a real distraction after receiving Christ. It is hard to meditate when most of your mental powers are being used to block out the lyrics of the hymn.
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napoli426
Guest
Yes I agree, the vernacular is a distraction at best. As far as needing to learn new songs. Why is this neccessary? The Church has a treasury of beautiful songs. These "new " songs are nothing more than an attempt to further the agenda of the “new liturigsts”. After I receive Holy Communion, I do not want to be listening to banal attempts at music.
Pax
Pax
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Tigg
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Lutheranteach
Guest
MOderately loud…and when it’s a hymn everyone knows “Mighty Fortress is Our God” Xmas carols etc., than I like all the stops pulled out on the tracker organ and the windows to be rattled. Add some brass, etc. when possible too.
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angelic06
Guest
To be sure, I don’t necessarily agree about the part about the vernacular though—though modern hymnody could sure be improved by the boatload.
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CatholicZ09
Guest
I have to add something after reading a poster above.
It’s nice when the organ is played really loud like for Easter hymns like “Jesus Christ is Risen Today” or Christmas Hymns like “Hark! The Herald Angels Sing”, etc. It adds more feeling and beauty.
It’s nice when the organ is played really loud like for Easter hymns like “Jesus Christ is Risen Today” or Christmas Hymns like “Hark! The Herald Angels Sing”, etc. It adds more feeling and beauty.
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