How do you talk to your partner about abstaining from pre-marital sex?

[HomeschoolDad]

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/document/matrimonia-mixta-on-mixed-marriages-476

“For these reasons the Church, conscious of her duty, discourages the contracting of mixed marriages, for she is the most desirous that Catholics be able in matrimony to attain to perfect union of mind and full communion of life. However, since man has the natural right to marry and beget children, the Church, by her laws, which clearly show her pastoral concern, makes such arrangements that on the one hand the principles of divine law be scrupulously observed and that on the other the said right to contract marriages be respected.”

This is not some hoary old thing that I dug up from a thousand years ago. It was delivered by Paul VI in 1970, right smack-dab in the middle of the implementation of Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae. The ink was hardly dry on Unitatis redintegratio (Decree on Ecumenism) yet.

 

[PetraG]

I’m married to a non-Catholic. From my experience, the willingness to raise the children practicing Catholics and support of the proposition that what the Church teaches is True are necessities. None of this “we humor Mom and her little ‘thing’” stuff. That would not have worked.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I’m married to a non-Catholic. From my experience, the willingness to raise the children practicing Catholics and support of the proposition that what the Church teaches is True are necessities. None of this “we humor Mom and her little ‘thing’” stuff. That would not have worked.

support of the proposition that what the Church teaches is True

I’m a little confused by your phraseology. If someone doesn’t accept the Catholic Faith, how can they render “support of the proposition that what the Church teaches is true”? And if they do accept the Catholic Faith, why then do they not become Catholic?

In a way, I have personal experience of this. Certain extended family members are, shall we say, less than full-throated in their acceptance of the entirety of the Catholic Faith. It is difficult to have my son around these people — he reasons that “they don’t believe in all of it, so why should I?”. Those are not his exact words, but close enough. It’s a problem. And I do not, and would not, deprive him of the company of his entire family because a couple of them are a less-than-stellar influence where acceptance of the Faith whole and entire is concerned. Again, as I said, it’s a problem.

Far better to have everyone singing off the same page.

 

[mdgspencer]

I have said that I don’t want to go to a bad place when I die.

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

The answer is simple: you talk about it. That is the answer to pretty much every issue in a relationship: talk about it.

 

[PetraG]

It’s complicated, but essentially I think he’s someone who was baptized but not catechized—doesn’t believe but I think wishes he did. He doesn’t have faith but he likes that I do. (Of course I hope some day he will convert.)

 

[PetraG]

You do have to start with the premise that pleasing God comes first. If the spouses can’t cope with that reality, it is of course an obstacle to a Christian marriage. It isn’t honest to fail to admit this is your ideal.

 

[John_Martin]

“Partner” - since when do Catholics have “Partners”? I know American culture changed the use of that term to allow license for sexual definitions and activities for appetitive satisfactions for their own sake apart from intentional marriage of male and female.

Or is this about “Business Partners” who happen to want to get married?..

Why are you calling someone your “partner”? Take a long look at who you are.

 

[PetraG]

I’d say the term “partner” comes from the workplace, especially among medical professionals. First off, it is the term medical people use when they need patients to be open about the truth of what sorts of physical contacts a patient has had in order to get an accurate medical history.
Among co-workers it is also purposefully vague because frankly you don’t ask for specifics when they’re not offered and you don’t have a work relationship that invites personal correction, anyway.
With a lot of use in those contexts, it gets to be a habit.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

“Partner” - since when do Catholics have “Partners”? I know American culture changed the use of that term to allow license for sexual definitions and activities for appetitive satisfactions for their own sake apart from intentional marriage of male and female.

Or is this about “Business Partners” who happen to want to get married?..

Why are you calling someone your “partner”? Take a long look at who you are.

I use it as a synonym for “spouse”. Either term is far less cumbersome than constantly saying “husband or wife” when discussing marital relationships where the comments could apply to either gender.

I appreciate your solicitude for my spiritual welfare in your admonition to “take a long look at who you are”, but I think your concern isn’t necessary here. There couldn’t be anyone more devoted to traditional gender roles and differences than I am. I’d like to see a return to a world where, in the main, the father goes out into the world and earns enough money to support a family, while the mother stays home, maintains the home, and has more children than couples typically have nowadays.

It used to grate on me to no end, when I moved to a major metropolitan area after graduating from college and fell in with would-be young urban sophisticates who would refer to everyone as just “people” — “I’m dating this person”, “pregnant people”, and so on. When I heard a coworker refer to “pregnant people”, I wanted to say “yeah, and I bet a lot of those ‘people’ are women, too!”. Planned Parenthood refers to “people” who have abortions on their website. Just the other day I read something about “people with [biologically female anatomy]” — it was phrased a little more strongly than that, but you get the idea. Socialist, feminist, apostate propaganda to get men and women to quit thinking about difference of gender, and to toss everybody into one big lumpen. Simple as that.

 

[John_Martin]

I appreciate your solicitude for my spiritual welfare in your admonition to “take a long look at who you are” , but I think your concern isn’t necessary here. There couldn’t be anyone more devoted to traditional gender roles and differences than I am.

Oh, do you have two identities on the Forums? I was writing a general reply to the OP, @sunflower314 , who asked, “How do you talk to your partner about…” ; are you also this person?

 

[1ke]

since when do Catholics have “Partners”?

I’ve noticed that folks who post here who live in Europe use that term a lot.

Might be a language thing.

Also I think that term is more common with young people, so also may be a generational thing.

 

[tweedlealice]

Blessings
God is first in your life. You follow His commandments. You are a treasure to be cherished & loved. Love comes w respect. “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU’LL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS!” 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. See SELF CONTROL! AVOID THE OCCASSION OF SIN! Do not be alone till your wedding. In quarantine, that can be problematic. Visit in face time. Being 6 ft apart makes it easy. SMILE

Purify the eyes of my heart and help me to keep the focus of my mind on the Lord Jesus - and develop in me I pray, thoughts, words, deeds and motives that are pure in Your sight and that will honour Your Holy name, in Jesus name I pray,

Amen

“Flee from youthful passions, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.”

2 Timothy 2:22

 

[TheLittleLady]

If someone doesn’t accept the Catholic Faith, how can they render “support of the proposition that what the Church teaches is true” ? And if they do accept the Catholic Faith, why then do they not become Catholic?

I’m blessed to still have many of the friends I had in my teens. One of those is a man who is a staunch atheist. A few years ago we fell out of touch, when I went home for a visit, called and he was going to meet us for a drink. Drink turned into going to a friends house to talk for hours.

Said something about Church that was not the same as when I was young, I said “oh, yeah, I became Catholic a few years ago”.

My friend, one of the most intelligent people I know, well read in history and philosophy grinned at me and said “good for you! If someone is going to be Christian, that is the real way to do it!”

There are non Catholics who have a deep respect for the Church.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

I appreciate your solicitude for my spiritual welfare in your admonition to “take a long look at who you are” , but I think your concern isn’t necessary here. There couldn’t be anyone more devoted to traditional gender roles and differences than I am.

Oh, do you have two identities on the Forums? I was writing a general reply to the OP, @sunflower314 , who asked, “How do you talk to your partner about…” ; are you also this person?

I thought you were addressing me. No, I am not @sunflower314

No harm done, no problem. In fact, I’m happy it gave me the opportunity to take the linguistic habit of referring to everyone as generic “people” and give it a swift kick in the… pants.

I read something else recently about “people in the seminary”. Unless they are referring to some seminaries where women are admitted (see this article from First Things), this is just sloppy language. Traditional seminaries such as the FSSP or SSPX would dismiss this idea out of hand. And I have a feeling that an SSPX priest, at least, would take one to task for not specifying “men” in lieu of “people”. They take traditional gender roles very seriously.

John_Martin:

since when do Catholics have “Partners”?

I’ve noticed that folks who post here who live in Europe use that term a lot.

Might be a language thing.

Also I think that term is more common with young people, so also may be a generational thing.

It is indeed. They’ve been brainwashed by the schools and the media.

 

[1ke]

It is indeed. They’ve been brainwashed by the schools and the media.

Eh. Language changes.

And my husband certainly is also my partner, so, I don’t think it’s anything to be torqued up about.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

My friend, one of the most intelligent people I know, well read in history and philosophy grinned at me and said “good for you! If someone is going to be Christian, that is the real way to do it!”

There are non Catholics who have a deep respect for the Church.

Yes, there are. One of my professors (business law professor, Yale alumnus with a graduate theology degree from Claremont) told me “well, you know, the Catholic Church is the one true Church”. I replied to him “you said it, I didn’t”.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

It is indeed. They’ve been brainwashed by the schools and the media.

Eh. Language changes.

And my husband certainly is also my partner, so, I don’t think it’s anything to be torqued up about.

Language may change, but there is nothing to prevent us from using older, more traditional, more specific terms when defending something as important as gender differences. One either stands in place or gets drifted along with the current. Look at how gay marriage and surgical gender reassignment have been normalized. If a person is involuntarily afflicted with SSA, that is unfortunate, that is a cross to bear, but that doesn’t mean that they have carte blanche to act out sexually. Ditto if the person has this nagging feeling that they were born with the wrong gender — many women affect a mannish persona (short hair, male clothing) and nobody thinks much of it, much the same for dainty, “girlish” men (at least in more liberal cultural environments), but that is one thing, surgery is quite another.

 

[1ke]

many women affect a mannish persona (short hair, male clothing) and nobody thinks much of it, much the same for dainty, “girlish” men (at least in more liberal cultural environments),

Hairstyles and clothing norms are cultural, not religious.

Short hair doesn’t make a woman “mannish” and long hair doesn’t make a man “womanish”. Same for attire.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

many women affect a mannish persona (short hair, male clothing) and nobody thinks much of it, much the same for dainty, “girlish” men (at least in more liberal cultural environments),

Hairstyles and clothing norms are cultural, not religious.

Short hair doesn’t make a woman “mannish” and long hair doesn’t make a man “womanish”. Same for attire.

True, it is largely cultural, but there is still Scriptural reference to men’s vs women’s clothing and men’s hair vs women’s hair.

A woman shall not be clothed with man’s apparel, neither shall a man use woman’s apparel: for he that doeth these things is abominable before God. (Deuteronomy 22:5 DRV)

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that a man indeed, if he nourish his hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering. (1 Corinthians 11:14-15, DRV)

And yes, this would be culturally specific to the culture of the Hebrews and the first-century eastern Roman Empire respectively. Nobody would seriously argue that short-coiffed Natalie Imbruglia, Audrey Hepburn, or Audrey Tautou were in the least bit unfeminine. Not even if they were wearing flannel shirts and men’s work pants. (Interesting thing to contemplate, none of these three women are unpleasant to look at. Not hardly.)