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adstrinity
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Well, what difference does that make? And how is this known?
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tradcatmel
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I would much rather not answer this question.
It has been revealed to people like Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerick how the Passion occured. There is a book on it written by her.
I would rather take the account of the Bible (Douhay Rheims) - that is a perfect account of what happened.
It is a bit dangerous asking people how it happened, because it takes away from the teachings of the church. …
It has been revealed to people like Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerick how the Passion occured. There is a book on it written by her.
I would rather take the account of the Bible (Douhay Rheims) - that is a perfect account of what happened.
It is a bit dangerous asking people how it happened, because it takes away from the teachings of the church. …
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Darrel
Guest
I think they did put nails through the hands. If they tie the wrists to allow him to carry the cross member the Roman soldiers would be too lazy to remove the rope. Besides that why bother? Just nail the hands and raise him up. The reason I believe this is because of the location of stigmata’s on people like Padre Pio. The nails were probably just there for extra support and a little typical sick Roman torture. Why use nails and rope? I would imagine that at times the Romans would leave people up to rot as an example, this would make them difficult to cut down if hands and feet are nailed as well.
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Spyder1jcd
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How recently did you find this information and where? And what difference does it make? And why does your public profile still say you are Catholic?
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CatholicMatthew
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As I said…I do believe in somewhat of the traditional view. I think it was bloody than we are used to seeing. Having study early Christian symbols and having found early crux symbols throughout, it would be hard to deny.
Matt
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TobyLue
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To me it matters none if it was the wrist or hands, or whether he carried a “t” or part of a “T”. What matter is that he carried the sins of the world on his shoulders and that he showed us His great love for us and died for our sins. That’s why to me it’s very important to have the Cross with the corporal instead of an empty cross. The crucifix is a constant reminder of the love of Jesus for all mankind
Here is a cute story that I would like to relate. My niece has three children the youngest is now around 10. When he was 5 yrs old he was attending Pre-K and the teacher was explaining to them about Easter. She had a dozen plastic eggs which I believe were called the Resurrection Eggs. Each egg has a small story and a little item inside regarding the crucifixion. One has 3 small nails, one a lance, one a thread fashioned into a whip etc. etc. the last one is empty to represent the empty tomb. Of course when the egg with the lance is shown they were told that blood and water flowed from Jesus’ side when he was pierce with the lance.
Here is a cute story that I would like to relate. My niece has three children the youngest is now around 10. When he was 5 yrs old he was attending Pre-K and the teacher was explaining to them about Easter. She had a dozen plastic eggs which I believe were called the Resurrection Eggs. Each egg has a small story and a little item inside regarding the crucifixion. One has 3 small nails, one a lance, one a thread fashioned into a whip etc. etc. the last one is empty to represent the empty tomb. Of course when the egg with the lance is shown they were told that blood and water flowed from Jesus’ side when he was pierce with the lance.
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Keep this in mind.
Her little boy was playing outside all day when he runs inside with big eyes and out of breath and starts telling his mom about the story of Jesus and explaining each egg. When he gets to the part about the lance and that blood and water flowed from Jesus’ side the little boy said. “Well, that’s now happening to **me**!” His mother was dumfounded and didn’t understand what he meant. He said “the water, the water, it’s happening to me!” He then showed her his foot. . He had a blister on his heel and it popped while playing and water was coming out of his heel from the blister.
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Scott_Lafrance
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But what about the titanium nails? Doesn’t that make a difference?
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TobyLue
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Actually it was all done with mirrors. I’m sure that will be the next thing the Jesus Seminar (or the JW’s since they change their doctrines every other year) will come up with.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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Two reviews of Crucifixion by Martin Hengel:
directionjournal.org/article/?453amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/080061268X/002-0609793-6495234?v=glance
The Amazon reviews bring out the meaning of the Crucifixion as discussed in Hengel’s book quite excellently.
It’s a very powerful book - but not for the squeamish. A recurrent theme is the temptation for modern preaching to play down “the stumbling-block of the Cross”. When St. Paul spoke of “Christ crucified, a stumbling-block to the Jews and folly to the Greeks”, he was preaching something which Jews & Greeks both had excellent reasons to find an obscene, blasphemous, and incoherent contradiction. Hengel shows why it was so regarded, and why it is still so regarded - and why it is theologically central, crucial in the most literal sense, to Christian faith.
Crucifixes under-emphasise just how disgraceful and degrading and vile crucifixion was ##
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Apolonio
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In a debate at a Harvard Divinity School lecture last year with three Muslims who each had a separate argument of why Jesus survived the crucifixion, I disagreed with the Muslim physician who not only minimalized the scourging and spearing, but said that Jesus was a young man and would have survived the ordeal - that Jesus was unconscious but alive when they removed him from the cross.
Response:
If we’re going to be historical, I would find this unlikely. Romans knew how to kill criminals. To have a person survive a death penalty in those days is unlikely and I never heard of a circumstance where a person who was crucified made it.
Response:
If we’re going to be historical, I would find this unlikely. Romans knew how to kill criminals. To have a person survive a death penalty in those days is unlikely and I never heard of a circumstance where a person who was crucified made it.
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CatholicMatthew
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I detect Sarcasm
matt
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Spyder1jcd
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Looking at the present poll results, I find it very interesting that so many of today’s Christians believe the common Christian art. Are you all unaware of the scientific, medical, and historical evidence that proves otherwise, or are you just ignorant to it? I don’t mean to sound rude here, but come on! Doesn’t the Shroud mean anything? A while ago I visited a thread with a poll on the Shroud of Turin. So far, the vote largely goes in favor of the Shroud’s authenticity. I find it surprising that so many Christians believe in the Shroud yet a large majority stick to the traditional depection of the crucifixion. Is it because of Pope John Paul II’s alleged comment on “The Passion of the Christ”? I’m sorry, but if he really did say “It is as it was,” I DO NOT agree with the Pope on this one.
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Spyder1jcd
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Actually, the Jewish writer Flavius Josephus, who, as you may know, wrote extensively about the time period during which Jesus lived, mentioned two crucifixion victims who survived. But in Jesus’ case, it would’ve been highly unlikely. In Roman crucifixion, chastisement is actually not a common prelude. The flaggelation of Jesus was a ploy by Pilate to gain sympathy from the Sanhedrin for Him, a ploy which we all know failed. The high amount of blood loss would’ve ensured death. Also, Jesus was pierced with a spear after death. We can infer that this blow must’ve hit the heart, since the “water” that poured out with the blood could’ve easily been fluid from a sac surrounding the heart. Even if He did somehow survive crucifixion, this surely would’ve killed Him.
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Asimis
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deleted
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clmowry
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…He was crucified, Died and was Buried…
The rest is detail for much speculation and fun but not particularly meaningful chit chat.
Chuck
The rest is detail for much speculation and fun but not particularly meaningful chit chat.
Chuck
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Spyder1jcd
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What the?
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Spyder1jcd
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Oh, really? Tell me, what do YOU believe?
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Scott_Lafrance
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Contarini
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Kevin Walker:
Granted, there was also more wear and tear, so once you were about 50 you were considered old. But by no standard would someone in his 30s have been considered old. That’s precisely why Irenaeus argued that Jesus was at least 50 when He died–because it was theologically important for Irenaeus that Jesus should have passed through all the stages of human life. 30 was considered the point at which a man became fully mature–in many Greek city-states that was when you first acquired full political rights, and in Sparta (if I remember correctly) a man couldn’t marry before that age. 30-50 was considered the prime of life–the years in which you still had plenty of physical strength but also had acquired enough wisdom to play a prominent role in society. By ancient standards, Jesus was just entering the prime of life when He was killed.
Edwin
This is false logic which I run into all the time. You’re confusing life span and life expectancy. The human life span has not changed that much–the Bible refers to it as 70-80, which is basically what it is today, though the envelope is being pushed. The huge difference is that in our society most people can expect to live out their life span, whereas in most premodern societies there was a huge infant mortality and all kinds of ways you could die as an adult as well.
Granted, there was also more wear and tear, so once you were about 50 you were considered old. But by no standard would someone in his 30s have been considered old. That’s precisely why Irenaeus argued that Jesus was at least 50 when He died–because it was theologically important for Irenaeus that Jesus should have passed through all the stages of human life. 30 was considered the point at which a man became fully mature–in many Greek city-states that was when you first acquired full political rights, and in Sparta (if I remember correctly) a man couldn’t marry before that age. 30-50 was considered the prime of life–the years in which you still had plenty of physical strength but also had acquired enough wisdom to play a prominent role in society. By ancient standards, Jesus was just entering the prime of life when He was killed.
Edwin
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