How do you view Matthew 16:13 through 20? What does it mean to you?

[MT1926]

Sorry. I will try to stifle.

Well don’t stifle now.

How come every time I ask this question the other person decides it is now time to stifle?

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Sorry. I will try to stifle.

Well don’t stifle now.

How come every time I ask this question the other person decides it is now time to stifle?

If I am giving you a hard time because I keep jumping into coversations you are having with others and it causes you confusion I am certainly willing to withdraw. Don’t jump to conclusions that it is avoidance of your question.

 

[GladTidings]

Having a personal relationship with Jesus is complete with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That is the truth!

Yes! And we make sure we walk in friendship with Jesus by remaining in, or getting back into, a state of grace through confession if we have greatly sinned by breaking at least one of the Ten Commandments.

Jesus gave the disciples the authority to forgive or retain sins in John 20:20 to 23. We as Catholics do feel the Holy Spirit speaking to us and guiding us. In almost every mass I go to, something reaches me and I know it is God speaking to me. I feel closer to Jesus and it is more likely I will get the message from God if I am walking in friendship with Jesus.

The only reason we have been talking about the forgiveness of sins is because early on, a poster mentioned Luther thought Matthew 16:18 has something to do with John 20:20 to 23.

 

[MT1926]

If I am giving you a hard time because I keep jumping into coversations you are having with others and it causes you confusion I am certainly willing to withdraw. Don’t jump to conclusions that it is avoidance of your question.

No I’m not confused at all. Feel free to answer the question I’m directing at you. My point was you keep jumping into the middle of a conversation and answer questions I direct at someone else a little off topic of what we were talking about.

By all means feel free to answer the question that no way he seems to want to answer

 

[GladTidings]

And what if He says Peter himself taught you at Pentecost, why have you changed it?

How did Jesus say we were to baptize? In his name alone? I assume you are referring to Acts 2:32 to 38?

 

[mcq72]

Well that is partly the problem in justifying ones rightness, when others do likewise, even using same sacred sources.Others may also be justifed, not by being necessarily right on an issue but by relationship to the author of all spiritual life.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

And what if He says Peter himself taught you at Pentecost, why have you changed it?

How did Jesus say we were to baptize? In his name alone? I assume you are referring to Acts 2:32 to 38?

First we are to teach and make disciples. When we have a candidate who has repented as Peter instructed at Pentecost and wants to be a follower of Christ we are to baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

If I am giving you a hard time because I keep jumping into coversations you are having with others and it causes you confusion I am certainly willing to withdraw. Don’t jump to conclusions that it is avoidance of your question.

No I’m not confused at all. Feel free to answer the question I’m directing at you. My point was you keep jumping into the middle of a conversation and answer questions I direct at someone else a little off topic of what we were talking about.

By all means feel free to answer the question that no way he seems to want to answer

I realize I do that some. Not meaning to make it hard for you.

 

[MT1926]

Well that is partly the problem in justifying ones rightness, when others do likewise, even using same sacred sources.Others may also be justifed, not by being necessarily right on an issue but by relationship to the author of all spiritual life.

I don’t understand your response? In the first sentence it seems like you agree with me that people using the same source and coming to different conclusions is a problem.

But then it seems to me that you are justify this by saying it is OK as long as you have a relationship with the author.

Sorry I’m Confused?

Do you believe Jesus wanted us to all agree on one faith and one baptism and follow Him the way He wanted? or Do you believe He doesn’t really care as long as we believe we have a relationship with Him?

To me a relationship is a two way street not sure how you can have a relationship with someone when you are the one who always gets to decide when you are “right on the issues”?

God Bless

 

[MT1926]

I realize I do that some. Not meaning to make it hard for you.

Wow continued avoidance of my question, three times in a row now.

I’ll take that as a positive confirmation that the only way you know is that your gut tells you the Holy Spirit is guiding you.

Thanks but I know the human gut is not a reliable source.

God Bless

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

I realize I do that some. Not meaning to make it hard for you.

Wow continued avoidance of my question, three times in a row now.

I’ll take that as a positive confirmation that the only way you know is that your gut tells you the Holy Spirit is guiding you.

Thanks but I know the human gut is not a reliable source.

God Bless

Ianman gave you a very good answer in post 81. I have gone back over this thread and really believe you are not fair in your arguing. You have skirted questions asked of you and all you have tried to do is get someone who sees things differently than you agree with what you want which is to prove your position that we can’t possibly know the guidance of the Holy Spirit in our Christian life without a Majesterium.

If you are married, how do you know your wife really loves you and is looking out for your best interests? Do you take comfort and belief that she means what she promised when she become one with you? It takes faith, listening, believing and trusting and experiencing.

Have you ever asked the Holy Spirit to fill your life with guidance and be a part of your own spiritual walk? He resides in the hearts of men that allow His presence.

 

[MT1926]

Ianman gave you a very good answer in post 81. I have gone back over this thread and really believe you are not fair in your arguing.

If I have been unfair I apologize. Please point out where I am not being fair so I won’t do so again in the future.

You have skirted questions asked of you

I try my best not to skirt any question asked of me. If you look back in my responses it is pretty plain to see that I do my best to give detailed responses to every question asked.

I am not seeing any responses I gave that were insufficient causing the other person to re-ask the question. If you would like to point out all of the questions that I have skirted on this thread I would be more than happy to answer them now.

all you have tried to do is get someone who sees things differently than you agree with what you want which is to prove your position that we can’t possibly know the guidance of the Holy Spirit in our Christian life without a Majesterium.

Once again I am not understanding your response here?

Isn’t the subject we are currently discussing here as to whether or not seeing things differently is of importance to claiming that we “Truly Trust and Fully Follow Jesus?”

How is me asking how one can have certainty that their claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit isn’t just their gut being unkind? Is this not a legitimate question? Especially when the Holy Spirit isn’t guiding you the same as He is guiding someone else who also claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit?

Sure this thread is about the Pope, but as far as my line of questioning that isn’t even the point. I study the Bible and what I read and interpret doesn’t line up with many people’s interpretations that hammer me with whether or not I am saved. I’m not claiming that I am right and they are wrong. All I am asking is does Jesus want to know His Truth? I believe this answer is YES. So when I ask the question of on what authority should I believe your truth over mine, the answer always well I’m being the Holy Spirit. Then the question of how you know this, is a legitimate question in my book, and isn’t being unfair or unkind.

continued…

 

[MT1926]

If you are married, how do you know your wife really loves you and is looking out for your best interests? Do you take comfort and belief that she means what she promised when she become one with you?

Totally agree with this statement. However, lets take this same example and apply it to us today 2000 years removed from the Apostles and the Bible.

Who is going to have a better chance understanding my relationship with my wife (which would be an analogy for Christs relationship with His Church).

The guy that picks up our love letters and reads them and interprets them for him self?
or
The guy that picks up the love letters and reads them and asks my descendants what I meant here and there while he is trying to interpret and understand them.

If I had no descendants who knew me and grew up with stories about my wife and I how would it be possible to understand what we wrote to each other?

It takes faith, listening, believing and trusting and experiencing.

Yes it does, but unless she verbally and physically reminds you daily, that she really loves you, then you are just trusting your gut instinct correct? I’m sure many a man, who was cheated on, had all of these gut feelings as well.

Have you ever asked the Holy Spirit to fill your life with guidance and be a part of your own spiritual walk? He resides in the hearts of men that allow His presence.

Everyday brother. But my own spiritual walk is my walk and my path, there is no guarantee that it is the right path. Don’t get me wrong here, I don’t mean to be unkind, yes I understand that this is enough for you, but what I am looking for is more than just a feeling

God Bless

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

If you are married, how do you know your wife really loves you and is looking out for your best interests? Do you take comfort and belief that she means what she promised when she become one with you?

Totally agree with this statement. However, lets take this same example and apply it to us today 2000 years removed from the Apostles and the Bible.

Who is going to have a better chance understanding my relationship with my wife (which would be an analogy for Christs relationship with His Church).

The guy that picks up our love letters and reads them and interprets them for him self?
or
The guy that picks up the love letters and reads them and asks my descendants what I meant here and there while he is trying to interpret and understand them.

If I had no descendants who knew me and grew up with stories about my wife and I how would it be possible to understand what we wrote to each other?

It takes faith, listening, believing and trusting and experiencing.

Yes it does, but unless she verbally and physically reminds you daily, that she really loves you, then you are just trusting your gut instinct correct? I’m sure many a man, who was cheated on, had all of these gut feelings as well.

Have you ever asked the Holy Spirit to fill your life with guidance and be a part of your own spiritual walk? He resides in the hearts of men that allow His presence.

Everyday brother. But my own spiritual walk is my walk and my path, there is no guarantee that it is the right path. Don’t get me wrong here, I don’t mean to be unkind, yes I understand that this is enough for you, but what I am looking for is more than just a feeling

God Bless

Thank you for your reply. I don’t have time to try to address all your questions right away. My father is nearing the end of his life right now in the hospital and I am the only child living close by so I have had lots on my mind as well as a plateful of duty.

Your last paragraph indicates that you understand my faith is based on my feelings? If that whst you meant to say then I don’t think you do understand. I probably am also misunderstanding you for you indicate there is no guarantee that the path you are on is the right path…I don’t mean to be unkind either but I thought if one subscribes to Catholicism he does not have to really worry about the right path because if he follows the Catechism he is guaranteed to be on the right path. Am I wrong about that?

 

[MT1926]

Thank you for your reply. I don’t have time to try to address all your questions right away. My father is nearing the end of his life right now in the hospital and I am the only child living close by so I have had lots on my mind as well as a plateful of duty.

Praying for you and you father. Lost my father in-law last year so know all to well that this can be a difficult time.

Also, am the only child near my parents and taking care of them as well, I know what you are going through since my father has been ill for 4 years now, actually getting ready to head over there at lunch today.

Your last paragraph indicates that you understand my faith is based on my feelings? If that whst you meant to say then I don’t think you do understand.

Exactly, I don’t understand how it can’t be based on anything other than your feelings. Don’t mean to be unkind I just wish someone would be willing to explain how you can know for sure that it is the Holy Spirit and not just your feelings. Instead of claiming that I am being unkind, unfair or unChristianlike whenever I ask. Like I said to me this is a legitimate question.

I probably am also misunderstanding you for you indicate there is no guarantee that the path you are on is the right path…

Yeah, what I was meaning is if my path is based on me and my feelings or believing I have the Holy Spirit as my guide, then my conclusion is since I’m the one claiming to have the Holy Spirit then it is only logical to conclude that me believing I’m on the right path is also based on my claim.

I don’t mean to be unkind either but I thought if one subscribes to Catholicism he does not have to really worry about the right path because if he follows the Catechism he is guaranteed to be on the right path. Am I wrong about that?

For the most part you got it right. That’s the point I am trying to make about being Catholic and about Matthew 16:13. Being both a child or God and a father myself, it is hard for me to understand why… if I am going away for an extended period of time I know it is my duty and obligation to leave someone to guide, teach and protect my children until I return. Why would My Father in heaven leave me to my own wants and desires without a visible guide to teach and protect me until He returns.

As for guarantees, we have an assurance but no guarantees. Just like many do with the Bible, I speak to people all of the time who pick and choose what they want from the Catechism or twist it to say what they want to hear. What can I say, it’s human nature. I see this same problem happening whether you are Catholic or Protestant. To me this just reinforces all the more that Jesus had to leave someone in charge. Human nature is just way to corrupt to go it alone.

God Bless

 

[mcq72]

life.

Again, on somethings either/or is unwise.For instance the thread has discussed creation, and that the church allows differing understandings of sacred sources. It is not right/ wrong so long as we all understand that there is an Author of it all, that indeed God created.

So now are we being dogmatic on some things unwisely ? So did the priest and his parish/communion participants in France in the 9th century show signs of less spiritual vitality than his doctrinal rival, in same city, due to communion views?

 

[Zach]

Is it okay to say bread for the consecrated host? We call it bread during the Eucharist Prayer.

 

[mcq72]

But then it seems to me that you are justify this by saying it is OK as long as you have a relationship with the author.

Not saying it is right to be wrong but you can be wrong in saying It’s the only game for all things.

Was it wrong for eastern churches to celebrate Easter differently than western churches, to continue their tradition going back to apostles?

 

[mcq72]

me a relationship is a two way street not sure how you can have a relationship with someone when you are the one who always gets to decide when you are “right on the issues”?

The flip side is how healthy is a relationship when someone else always decides for you what is right.

 

[mcq72]

Do you believe Jesus wanted us to all agree on one faith and one baptism and follow Him the way He wanted? or Do you believe He doesn’t really care as long as we believe we have a relationship with Him?

No, but it has to make you think when Jesus seems to have a like wise relationship with those who think differently than ourselves on some issues.