How does a Protestant deals with sin in their life.

[JonNC]

Why do you think that protestants got rid of confession to priests?

That’s a great question. When this thread came up I googled Luther and confession and found something interesting. Luther did not like the rules of Catholic confession, but he still believed in confessing sins to a priest/minister. He bemoaned the fact that people had gotten away from this type of confession.

I think that Protestants got away from confession for the same reasons many Catholics don’t go to confession. It is hard to do. I posted earlier something from Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran who believed in confession. He compared it to suffering with Christ’s cross.
If you’ve ever done something really bad you are really carrying a cross when you wait in line for the confessional.

BTW one thing that Luther didn’t like was specifying the number of times you commited a sin. This led to imperfect confessions because you might have forgotten the exact number. Everything I’ve read about Luther suggest great scrupulosity.

Rep140,
Thanks for your positive contribution to this discussion.
Jon

From Luther’s Small Catechism.

V. Confession

How Christians should be taught to confess.

What is Confession?*

Confession embraces two parts: the one is, that we confess our sins; the other, that we receive absolution, or forgiveness, from the confessor, as from God Himself, and in no wise doubt, but firmly believe, that our sins are thereby forgiven before God in heaven.

What sins should we confess?

Before God we should plead guilty of all sins, even of those which we do not know, as we do in the Lord’s Prayer. But before the confessor we should confess those sins alone which we know and feel in our hearts.

Which are these?

Here consider your station according to the Ten Commandments, whether you are a father, mother, son, daughter, master, mistress, a man-servant or maid-servant; whether you have been disobedient, unfaithful, slothful; whether you have grieved any one by words or deeds; whether you have stolen, neglected, or wasted aught, or done other injury.

Pray, Propose to Me a Brief Form of Confession.

Answer.

You should speak to the confessor thus: Reverend and dear sir, I beseech you to hear my confession, and to pronounce forgiveness to me for God’s sake.

Proceed!

I, a poor sinner, confess myself before God guilty of all sins; especially I confess before you that I am a man-servant, a maidservant, etc. But, alas, I serve my master unfaithfully; for in this and in that I have not done what they commanded me; I have provoked them, and caused them to curse, have been negligent [in many things] and permitted damage to be done; have also been immodest in words and deeds, have quarreled with my equals, have grumbled and sworn at my mistress, etc. For all this I am sorry, and pray for grace; I want to do better.

A master or mistress may say thus:

In particular I confess before you that I have not faithfully trained my children, domestics, and wife [family] for God’s glory. I have cursed, set a bad example by rude words and deeds, have done my neighbor harm and spoken evil of him, have overcharged and given false ware and short measure.

And whatever else he has done against God’s command and his station, etc.

But if any one does not find himself burdened with such or greater sins, he should not trouble himself or search for or invent other sins, and thereby make confession a torture, but mention one or two that he knows. Thus: In particular I confess that I once cursed; again, I once used improper words, I have once neglected this or that, etc. Let this suffice.

But if you know of none at all (which, however is scarcely possible), then mention none in particular, but receive the forgiveness upon your general confession which you make before God to the confessor.

Then shall the confessor say:

God be merciful to thee and strengthen thy faith! Amen.

Furthermore:

Dost thou believe that my forgiveness is God’s forgiveness?

Answer.

Yes, dear sir.

Then let him say:

As thou believest, so be it done unto thee. And by the command of our Lord Jesus Christ I forgive thee thy sins, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Depart in peace.

But those who have great burdens upon their consciences, or are distressed and tempted, the confessor will know how to comfort and to encourage to faith with more passages of Scripture. This is to be merely a general form of confession for the unlearned.

• These questions may not have been composed by Luther himself but reflect his teachings and were included in editions of the Small Catechism during his lifetime.

 

[shawn38]

I for one go directly to the Father thru Jesus and ask forgivness. Sometimes I am convicted as soon as I sin and other times when I am praying and am alone with God.

“And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom” (Matthew 27:50-51a).

The tearing of the veil at the moment of Jesus’ death dramatically symbolized that His sacrifice, the shedding of His own blood, was a sufficient atonement for sins. It signified that now the way into the Holy of Holies was open for all people, for all time, both Jew and Gentile."

The divide that once separated us was now removed. We can take our petitions directly to God.

“Hebrews 9:1-9 tells us that in the temple a veil separated the Holy of Holies—the earthly dwelling place of God’s presence—from the rest of the temple where men dwelt. This signified that man was separated from God by sin (Isaiah 59:1-2). Only the high priest was permitted to pass beyond this veil once each year (Exodus 30:10)”

gotquestions.org/temple-veil-torn.html

 

[JonNC]

Originally Posted by tweetymom
I for one go directly to the Father thru Jesus and ask forgivness. Sometimes I am convicted as soon as I sin and other times when I am praying and am alone with God.

=shawn38;6146317
The divide that once separated us was now removed. We can take our petitions directly to God.

I don’t think too many people deny that we can confess our sins directly to God, as in the Lord’s Prayer. I just find it incredibly uplifting to hear from my pastor, as from God Himself, that I am forgiven. This is the beauty of confession/Holy Absolution, a true gift from Christ Himself.

Jon

 

[Carlan]

I don’t think too many people deny that we can confess our sins directly to God, as in the Lord’s Prayer. I just find it incredibly uplifting to hear from my pastor, as from God Himself, that I am forgiven. This is the beauty of confession/Holy Absolution, a true gift from Christ Himself.

Jon

AMEN! Jon.Carlan

 

[SteveVH]

I don’t think too many people deny that we can confess our sins directly to God, as in the Lord’s Prayer. I just find it incredibly uplifting to hear from my pastor, as from God Himself, that I am forgiven. This is the beauty of confession/Holy Absolution, a true gift from Christ Himself.

Jon:

I don’t know as much about the Lutheran Church as I probabaly should. Please understand that I mean no disrespect with my question. When a Catholic priest gives absolution, we believe that he acts in “persona Christi”, in the person of Christ. The same is true for the other sacraments as well. We believe he has this authority through his ordination by a bishop, a successor of the Apostles. Without apostolic succession, what is the Lutheran position on the authority of a Lutheran pastor to absolve sin? I suppose this same question could be extended to Holy Communion as well. Honestly, I’m asking to be educated.

By the way, I agree with your statement. It is one thing to say that I will go directly to God with my sin (problem is, it sounds good, but not many will actually do it), it is quite another to honestly confess your sins and then to hear the words of absolution.

God bless.

 

[Teneas]

Carlan,

I ask God for forgiveness for my sins. I’m confident that my sins are forgiven because I have faith in Christ. That’s why HE died. John 20 is not referring to any particular person forgiving sins on their own. Sin itself can only be forgiven by GOD. Christ’s instructions here refer to the Apostles ability to announce that forgiveness of sin is now available to all who confess Jesus as their savior. That’s why we don’t read anything about one on one confession in scripture. It just never happened.

With that being said I think confession as it’s practiced in the Catholic church is very beautiful. When one openly confesses their sins it makes it real. Think of how much harder it is to actually tell someone you committed adultery versus just confessing to GOD. Getting sin out in the open brings about accountability. But in all the years I attended confession a Priest never announced that he forgave me. It was always because of the work of Christ solely that forgiveness was granted. But we must also repent of our sin which many people forget.

PEACE

Christ forgives our sins through the priest’s absolution.

 

[mmmcounts]

Protestant Christians do just fine without priests and we do exactly what early Christians did before sacerdotalism existed.

This does not constitute the totality of the Protestant explanation of what we do, but it will suffice in answering your implied question: Where do Protestants get off thinking they don’t need priests? Now you know.

 

[Carlan]

Protestant Christians do just fine without priests and we do exactly what early Christians did before sacerdotalism existed.

G’morning mmm,Did you miss John19:21-23?Carlan

Oh God be gracious and Bless us
And let your light shine upon us.

 

[Carlan]

Why do you think that protestants got rid of confession to priests?

I think that Protestants got away from confession for the same reasons many Catholics don’t go to confession. It is hard to do. I posted earlier something from Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran who believed in confession. He compared it to suffering with Christ’s cross.
If you’ve ever done something really bad you are really carrying a cross when you wait in line for the confessional.

I think that is so Rep, I also feel that our Priests should be reminding us of the sacrament of reconciliation and God’s mercy all the time from the pulpit. Finding ways to make themselves more available. I know in my own parish, though, our pastor is hard pressed for time. He is the only priest and we are about 1500 families. Pray for vocations. Oh God be gracious and bless us!Carlan

 

[JonNC]

=SteveVH;6147052]Jon:

I don’t know as much about the Lutheran Church as I probabaly should. Please understand that I mean no disrespect with my question. When a Catholic priest gives absolution, we believe that he acts in “persona Christi”, in the person of Christ. The same is true for the other sacraments as well.

Pretty much same here.

We believe he has this authority through his ordination by a bishop, a successor of the Apostles. **Without apostolic succession, what is the Lutheran position on the authority of a Lutheran pastor to absolve sin? **I suppose this same question could be extended to Holy Communion as well. Honestly, I’m asking to be educated.

First, Steve, the Lutheran Confessions support AS, and without going into too much of the history, the evangelical Catholic churches following the reformation, desired ordination by bishops, but were given the choice between it and their belief that they were rightly adhering to the gospel. Choosing adherance to the Gospel, they looked to divine law and the historic practice of presbyter ordination. Our belief is that presbyter ordination maintains the same validity of our ministry of our preisthood, to bind and loose and to preach and administer the sacraments.

This is an ongoing difference between our communions. Two ecumenical documents that are the result of Lutheran - Catholic dialogue since Vatican II, I have come accross speak to this issue - where our convergences are, and where we still need to dialogue.

usccb.org/seia/koinonia.shtml

prounione.urbe.it/dia-int/l-rc/doc/e_l-rc_ap-01.html

One of the things present in each is a growing appreciation for each other’s ministry, and continuing desire for unity.

By the way, I agree with your statement. It is one thing to say that I will go directly to God with my sin (problem is, it sounds good, but not many will actually do it), it is quite another to honestly confess your sins and then to hear the words of absolution.

I don’t know how a Catholic priest phrases it, but a typical statement of absolution by a Lutheran pastor would be; “As a called and ordained servant of Christ, and by His authority, I therefore foregive you all of your sins, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” These words provide such comfort to this sinner’s heart.

Jon

 

[jpaul1953]

Jesus never limited the call to or authority to forgive to the ordained clergy of The Catholic Church. Thus, Protestants believe that forgiveness may be extended and announced by those other than Catholic priests. It’s one of the reasons we don’t need to delete the petition in the Lord’s Prayer, “… and forgive us our sins as WE forgive those that sin against us.”

AJ,

Wrong. The Lord’s prayer is saying to you that you will be forgiven as you forgive. LOVE, which is more important than faith and hope.

It’s easy to say 'I’m sorry God" BUT it’s real hard to say to another human being, for instance, I stole the money out of my mother’s safe because I needed money. The priest , through Christ, will forgive you only if you are truly sorry. If he mistakenly forgives you, you’re not forgiven. Then you must do penance and return the money.

You don’t do this when asking God for forgiveness you just say Thanks.

Confess your sins to one another. Tell mom your robbed her safe. Own your sin, tell another human being, and replace what did wrong if possible. God gave the Catholic Church everything necessary for salvation. Learn from the truth, not your desired beliefs.

Through the gift of open-mindedness you may just come around.

jpaul1953

 

[SteveVH]

Pretty much same here.

First, Steve, the Lutheran Confessions support AS, and without going into too much of the history, the evangelical Catholic churches following the reformation, desired ordination by bishops, but were given the choice between it and their belief that they were rightly adhering to the gospel. Choosing adherance to the Gospel, they looked to divine law and the historic practice of presbyter ordination. Our belief is that presbyter ordination maintains the same validity of our ministry of our preisthood, to bind and loose and to preach and administer the sacraments.

This is an ongoing difference between our communions. Two ecumenical documents that are the result of Lutheran - Catholic dialogue since Vatican II, I have come accross speak to this issue - where our convergences are, and where we still need to dialogue.

usccb.org/seia/koinonia.shtml

prounione.urbe.it/dia-int/l-rc/doc/e_l-rc_ap-01.html

One of the things present in each is a growing appreciation for each other’s ministry, and continuing desire for unity.

I don’t know how a Catholic priest phrases it, but a typical statement of absolution by a Lutheran pastor would be; “As a called and ordained servant of Christ, and by His authority, I therefore foregive you all of your sins, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” These words provide such comfort to this sinner’s heart.

Jon

Jon, thanks so much for your response. I’m learning that we’re not far apart on many issues. I appreciate the education and pray that unity is not far away.

God bless you.

 

[JonNC]

Jon, thanks so much for your response. I’m learning that we’re not far apart on many issues. I appreciate the education and pray that unity is not far away.

God bless you.

Steve,
You’re welcome. I, too, have learned much here at CAF. I share your prayer for unity.

Jon

 

[Julian0404]

Protestant Christians do just fine without priests and we do exactly what early Christians did before sacerdotalism existed.

This does not constitute the totality of the Protestant explanation of what we do, but it will suffice in answering your implied question: Where do Protestants get off thinking they don’t need priests? Now you know.

No, you do not “…do exactly what early Christians did before sacerdotalism existed.” because when Jesus was still alive He instituted the Sacrament of the Mass, which Paul talks about in his letters. And immediately upon Jesus ressurrection He instituted the Sacrament of Confession, to and by His apostles. Therefore, if your statement was true, you would be going to confession to Catholic priest, like “,early Christians did…” because for 1500 years after Jesus, that was the only way for “early Christians”.
One very important question that you need to ponder, is did Jesus truly not establish a process and procedure through which He desired the graces of His Sacrament to flow?
Read His very words in establishing Confession and the Mass and know that it was through the perfect union He established between His apostles and the Holy Spirit that the grace from His Sacraments was to flow, which it did for 1500 years unchanged by Him or the Holy Spirit, and still to this day the grace flows from that union which He formed.
While you are in the Bible read Chapters 38,39 and 40 of JOB and see the many simple questions God inquires of JOB that allows JOB to see how small and insignificant he is to God, and how he cannot argue with or edit God’s intent, just to justify himself.

 

[Teneas]

Jon, thanks so much for your response. I’m learning that we’re not far apart on many issues. I appreciate the education and pray that unity is not far away.

God bless you.

 

[mmmcounts]

G’morning mmm,Did you miss John19:21-23?Carlan

You know what I meant.

 

[mmmcounts]

when Jesus was still alive He instituted the Sacrament of the Mass, which Paul talks about in his letters. And immediately upon Jesus ressurrection He instituted the Sacrament of Confession, to and by His apostles.Citations please?

Therefore, if your statement was true, you would be going to confession to Catholic priest, like “,early Christians did…” because for 1500 years after Jesus, that was the only way for “early Christians”.

 

[mmmcounts]

I think that is so Rep, I also feel that our Priests should be reminding us of the sacrament of reconciliation and God’s mercy all the time from the pulpit. Finding ways to make themselves more available. I know in my own parish, though, our pastor is hard pressed for time. He is the only priest and we are about 1500 families. Pray for vocations. Oh God be gracious and bless us!Carlan

Maybe that could be part of your vocation. You could sit on the other side of the booth, listen to people confess their sins, and tell them they’re forgiven. You see a need, you step up and get things done. Right?

Ok, I know it’s not as simple as all that. So you subgoal. In order to step up and do that, you first need to accomplish A, B, and C. Do those things and then you can help your parish out.

Rep140 said something about this, though…“It is hard to do.” But I guess you can either do it or wait around while no one else does. Those are the most likely scenarios.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

AmericanJosiah;6144928:

Jesus never limited the call to or authority to forgive to the ordained clergy of The Catholic Church. Thus, Protestants believe that forgiveness may be extended and announced by those other than Catholic priests. It’s one of the reasons we don’t need to delete the petition in the Lord’s Prayer, “… and forgive us our sins as WE forgive those that sin against us.”

AJ, Wrong.

Then show me where Jesus clearly limited the authority to forgive to the ordained clergy of The Catholic Church. Give the quote that says “ordained clergy” and “The Catholic Church.”

Then show me where Protestants do not tend to embrace that forgiveness may be extended and announced by those other than ordain clergy of The Catholic Church.

Then show me where The Lord’s Prayer states that the “as WE forgive…” actually means ordained clergy of The Catholic Church (does that mean only they may pray this prayer?)

.

 

[Carlan]

You know what I meant.

Sorry I did not know what you meant. Christ’s Church began on Pentecost. That was when he commissioned his Apostles to pass on down, through the ages, His revelation.
In John 19: 22-23 he instituted the method of dealing with sin, guilt , repentance and forgiveness. We in his Church are blessed with the sanctifying gifts of the Holy sacraments:yup::clapping:::dancing:Carlan