How does a Protestant or noncatholic follow John 4:23-24

[Gabriel_of_12]

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshippers will worship the Father in SPIRIT AND TRUTH: and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

How would a protestant or non catholic explain their worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

To me to worship God in spirit and truth, can only be done through the Mass, Because we have Jesus truly present in body soul and divinity, we have truth, along with the word of God, in his law and prophets followed by the testimonies of the Apostles climaxed by the gospel himself the Word of God made present. During all this liturgical worship in truth, instituted by Jesus Christ himself, we enter into the Holy of Holies, Where all the angels and saints including the Blessed Mother come together as one body in Jesus Christ to worship God in Spirit.

Can you summarize your church worship services, How you worship God in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

 

[Deacon110]

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshippers will worship the Father in SPIRIT AND TRUTH: and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

How would a protestant or non catholic explain their worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

To me to worship God in spirit and truth, can only be done through the Mass, Because we have Jesus truly present in body soul and divinity, we have truth, along with the word of God, in his law and prophets followed by the testimonies of the Apostles climaxed by the gospel himself the Word of God made present. During all this liturgical worship in truth, instituted by Jesus Christ himself, we enter into the Holy of Holies, Where all the angels and saints including the Blessed Mother come together as one body in Jesus Christ to worship God in Spirit.

Can you summarize your church worship services, How you worship God in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

Gabriel this is very narrow minded to assume that GOD will only respond to worship at the mass. You’re implying that we can’t worship GOD anywhere or anyplace else including in private. Do you worship GOD at home? If not why not? Do you think GOD is not there or cannot hear you?

At our church we worship in song, prayer, the Lord’s supper, deep fellowship, scripture readings etc. etc. Do you really think GOD only responds to one form of worship? That’s placing a box around GOD which I don’t think you’re in position to do. Look at the OT and how they worshipped GOD. David danced for GOD, they sang very loud songs, played loud music using the harp, the lyre, drums etc. etc. But David spent countless hours in private worship to GOD through prayer as did Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc. etc.

Look at the true message of John 4:23-24 and stop prescribing that there is only one right way to do it. Notice the repeated use of the words true, truth, and spirit. GOD is spirit and is everywhere all the time and can be worshipped anywhere and anytime. But the worship must be true, meaning it must be genuine. Do you allow the Holy Spirit to help you pray? Do you worship genuinely or just for show? Do you truly believe which could make your worship false? Are you truly committed to GOD and worship HIM because you love HIM and want HIM in your life. Does GOD get your worship exclusively or do you worship false gods. I worship GOD in private every chance I get. Do you?? If not then maybe you should.

Please stop creating a baiting thread in which you ask a question and then give an answer in which the RCC ONLY can be right. Then please also stop speaking for GOD as I find it very insulting.

PEACE

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel this is very narrow minded to assume that GOD will only respond to worship at the mass. You’re implying that we can’t worship GOD anywhere or anyplace else including in private. Do you worship GOD at home? If not why not? Do you think GOD is not there or cannot hear you?

At our church we worship in song, prayer, the Lord’s supper, deep fellowship, scripture readings etc. etc. Do you really think GOD only responds to one form of worship? That’s placing a box around GOD which I don’t think you’re in position to do. Look at the OT and how they worshipped GOD. David danced for GOD, they sang very loud songs, played loud music using the harp, the lyre, drums etc. etc. But David spent countless hours in private worship to GOD through prayer as did Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc. etc.

Look at the true message of John 4:23-24 and stop prescribing that there is only one right way to do it. Notice the repeated use of the words true, truth, and spirit. GOD is spirit and is everywhere all the time and can be worshipped anywhere and anytime. But the worship must be true, meaning it must be genuine. Do you allow the Holy Spirit to help you pray? Do you worship genuinely or just for show? Do you truly believe which could make your worship false? Are you truly committed to GOD and worship HIM because you love HIM and want HIM in your life. Does GOD get your worship exclusively or do you worship false gods. I worship GOD in private every chance I get. Do you?? If not then maybe you should.

Please stop creating a baiting thread in which you ask a question and then give an answer in which the RCC ONLY can be right. Then please also stop speaking for GOD as I find it very insulting.

PEACE

**Mr. Deacon, you are misguided again by your infallable assumptioins. I asked the question? How do you follow scripture, in worshipping God in Spirit and Truth?.

It would be unfair to you and others to ask of how you worship God in Spirit and Truth , if I did not give my Catholic view on worhsipping God in Spirit and Truth.

Does this offend you how I described Worshipping God in Spirit and Truth as a body in Christ, I am sorry, if my way of worshipping God offends you, I cant change 2000 years of Worship to God by his Church.

If you care to share how you worship God in Spirit and Truth, the floor is all yours. But dont attack the way I worship God.

I believe your comments are uncalled for, but I forgive you. I wont hold any of your insults against you. It can be very hard to understand the mysteries of God without faith. What I mean by that , is you display no faith in the Mass and Eucharist instituted by Jesus Christ himself. I am not addressing your faith in God, thats between you and him.

So how do you worship God in Spirit and Truth,as described by Jesus, not King David, Or personal prayer with God. But how does your christian community worship God in Spirit and Truth?**

 

[O.S.Luke]

Another baiting thread.

 

[Non_Serviam]

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshippers will worship the Father in SPIRIT AND TRUTH: and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

How would a protestant or non catholic explain their worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

To me to worship God in spirit and truth, can only be done through the Mass, Because we have Jesus truly present in body soul and divinity, we have truth, along with the word of God, in his law and prophets followed by the testimonies of the Apostles climaxed by the gospel himself the Word of God made present. During all this liturgical worship in truth, instituted by Jesus Christ himself, we enter into the Holy of Holies, Where all the angels and saints including the Blessed Mother come together as one body in Jesus Christ to worship God in Spirit.

Can you summarize your church worship services, How you worship God in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

Context, context, context. The Samaritan woman has mentioned the theological point that separated the Jews and Samaritans. The Jews believed that the presence of God appeared in the temple and that worship and sacrifices were to be offered there, while the Samaritans believed that God’s presence was on their mountain and worship and sacrifices must be offered there.

Jesus is prophesying to her that the system of specific sacrifices in specific physical locations is coming to an end and that His sacrifice will result in the spirit of God being poured out on the world (as Peter preaches in Acts using Joel’s prophecy) and He will be able to be worshiped anywhere.

This prophecy was completely fulfilled for the Samaritans when Peter and John visited them and acknowledged their conversion in Acts 8.

Debating what the proper form of worship is will require going to other passages than this one because other than foretelling the abolition of the current sacrificial systems, Jesus doesn’t specify what will replace them in this passage.

 

[sheila0405]

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshippers will worship the Father in SPIRIT AND TRUTH: and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

How would a protestant or non catholic explain their worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

To me to worship God in spirit and truth, can only be done through the Mass, Because we have Jesus truly present in body soul and divinity, we have truth, along with the word of God, in his law and prophets followed by the testimonies of the Apostles climaxed by the gospel himself the Word of God made present. During all this liturgical worship in truth, instituted by Jesus Christ himself, we enter into the Holy of Holies, Where all the angels and saints including the Blessed Mother come together as one body in Jesus Christ to worship God in Spirit.

Can you summarize your church worship services, How you worship God in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

Did I miss something here? Is this the first post? I am just wondering why it is that anyone would pose such a question. I was a Protestant until the age of 49. Seems to me that I worshipped God then as I do now, in Spirit and truth. Remember that our Protestant brothers and sisters rely on the Holy Spirit to guide them in their spiritual growth, just as we Catholics do. This post has me scratching my head…

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Context, context, context. The Samaritan woman has mentioned the theological point that separated the Jews and Samaritans. The Jews believed that the presence of God appeared in the temple and that worship and sacrifices were to be offered there, while the Samaritans believed that God’s presence was on their mountain and worship and sacrifices must be offered there.**

I am not offended by your taking my comment and statement to file a out of context monologue. For one you are out of context because you have not stated the Understanding of Jews and the Understanding of what the Samaritans dont know referencing your unfinished business between the northern and southern kingdoms. That said dont change the subject. Lets keep it in context of Jesus statement. What do you not understand when Jesus says ":God is spirit, and THOSE WHO WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH.
Remember the hour is coming and is now here.**

Jesus is prophesying to her that the system of specific sacrifices in specific physical locations is coming to an end and that His sacrifice will result in the spirit of God being poured out on the world (as Peter preaches in Acts using Joel’s prophecy) and He will be able to be worshiped anywhere.

This prophecy was completely fulfilled for the Samaritans when Peter and John visited them and acknowledged their conversion in Acts 8.

**Your not going to get away , State how you worship God in Spirit and Truth in your community.

Its interesting to note, you mention the book of Acts, is where the first Christians began to assemble in community. And it was Peter who brought them the good news Listen to Acts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the TEACHINGS OF THE APOSTLES (THIS IS THE LITURGY OF THE WORD IN MASS), AND TO THE COMMUNIAL LIFE, TO THE BREAKING OF THE BREAD AND TO PRAYERS. (THIS IS THE EUCHARIST LITURGY IN THE MASS CELEBRATED AT EVERY MASS MON-SUNDAY)

Now my intent was not to bring up bible worship, because it confirms the Mass through and through, I just wanted to know how you worship God In Spirit and Truth. Or if you dont know or know how, then just give an opinion, there are no right or wrong answers. Just yours.**

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Debating what the proper form of worship is will require going to other passages than this one because other than foretelling the abolition of the current sacrificial systems, Jesus doesn’t specify what will replace them in this passage.

Who is asking for a debate??, I am ignorant of the your form of worship, Now Jesus states you must worship the Father in Spirit and Truth. Why do you fear answering truth?

If you want to use scripture to confirm your community worship in Spirit and Truth your free to do so. I have no fear explaining my Worship to the Father in Spirit and Truth. Why should you?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Did I miss something here? Is this the first post? I am just wondering why it is that anyone would pose such a question. I was a Protestant until the age of 49. Seems to me that I worshipped God then as I do now, in Spirit and truth. Remember that our Protestant brothers and sisters rely on the Holy Spirit to guide them in their spiritual growth, just as we Catholics do. This post has me scratching my head…

So from your protestant background you can speak for all the different Protestant and non catholic denominations of Worship to God in Spirit and Truth. If it is true,Like you say, they rely on the Holy Spirit , then how does the holy spirit manifests himself to their communities. As a Catholic Jesus manifests himself to me, through the holy spirit. Do they experience the same worship in Spirit and Truth. I am ignorant to their many belief systems I feel this is a non catholic forum to discuss such a topic.

What I fear is that if I get no response is Protestants and non catholics do not understand what they worship?

 

[Non_Serviam]

I am not offended by your taking my comment and statement to file a out of context monologue. For one you are out of context because you have not stated the Understanding of Jews and the Understanding of what the Samaritans dont know referencing your unfinished business between the northern and southern kingdoms. That said dont change the subject. Lets keep it in context of Jesus statement. What do you not understand when Jesus says ":God is spirit, and THOSE WHO WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH.
Remember the hour is coming and is now here.

**Your not going to get away , State how you worship God in Spirit and Truth in your community.

Its interesting to note, you mention the book of Acts, is where the first Christians began to assemble in community. And it was Peter who brought them the good news Listen to Acts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the TEACHINGS OF THE APOSTLES (THIS IS THE LITURGY OF THE WORD IN MASS), AND TO THE COMMUNIAL LIFE, TO THE BREAKING OF THE BREAD AND TO PRAYERS. (THIS IS THE EUCHARIST LITURGY IN THE MASS CELEBRATED AT EVERY MASS MON-SUNDAY)

Now my intent was not to bring up bible worship, because it confirms the Mass through and through, I just wanted to know how you worship God In Spirit and Truth. Or if you dont know or know how, then just give an opinion, there are no right or wrong answers. Just yours.**

I’m glad you aren’t offended, but disappointed that you can’t see the difference between a command (which one would follow) and a prophecy (which would come to pass). This verse is a prophecy.

Jesus is telling the Samaritan woman what will happen-not what she must do. Neither she, nor the Samartians, nor the Jews had the knowledge at this time to worship in spirit and truth as Christ wanted them to.

I am grateful that Jesus saw fit to incorporate me into the truth through baptism (since Jesus is the truth and baptism incorporates us into Him) and into the Spirit (since we receive the Spirit in salvation) giving me the same experience as the Samaritans.

In return, I worship Him as they did in Acts-devoting myself to the Apostles’ teaching as written in their Epistles and the Gospels, through breaking of bread by participating in the Lord’s Supper and through prayer as the Spirit within me leads.

That is how I worship in spirit and truth, being a continued fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy to the Samaritan woman, along with all others who make up His church.

Any other questions?

 

[Deacon110]

**Mr. Deacon, you are misguided again by your infallable assumptioins. I asked the question? How do you follow scripture, in worshipping God in Spirit and Truth?.

It would be unfair to you and others to ask of how you worship God in Spirit and Truth , if I did not give my Catholic view on worhsipping God in Spirit and Truth.

Does this offend you how I described Worshipping God in Spirit and Truth as a body in Christ, I am sorry, if my way of worshipping God offends you, I cant change 2000 years of Worship to God by his Church.

If you care to share how you worship God in Spirit and Truth, the floor is all yours. But dont attack the way I worship God.

I believe your comments are uncalled for, but I forgive you. I wont hold any of your insults against you. It can be very hard to understand the mysteries of God without faith. What I mean by that , is you display no faith in the Mass and Eucharist instituted by Jesus Christ himself. I am not addressing your faith in God, thats between you and him.

So how do you worship God in Spirit and Truth,as described by Jesus, not King David, Or personal prayer with God. But how does your christian community worship God in Spirit and Truth?**

Gabriel you don’t have to call me Mr. Deacon although it’s very sweet. I certainly wasn’t criticizing your style of worship as this was how I worshipped GOD growing up in the Roman Catholic church. But the implication of your message was that the RCC way was the only way. You did not merely ask a simple question of worshipping GOD with regard to John 4. The exact text is:

“How would a protestant or non catholic explain their worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.”

You’re asking for an explanation and then writing:

“To me to worship God in spirit and truth, can only be done through the Mass”.

Instead of asking how do protestant churches worship GOD you quoted John 4:23-24 using all caps in some places. Then the first few lines as shown above say you already are excluding Protestant methods as being invalid. If you didn’t intend it that way then don’t write it that way The content of your post has you speaking for GOD when GOD can certainly speak for HIMSELF.

If you are truly interested in asking how non-RCC denominations worship GOD with regard to John 4, then ask that question plain and simple. You may also want to preface it that you are not trying to bait anyone but merely learn something new.

And by the way personal prayer is a form of private worship to GOD. I’m worshipping GOD by asking for HIS divine guidance and spiritual support. My example of David was to merely demonstrate that there is no one right way of doing it.

PEACE

 

[Deacon110]

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshippers will worship the Father in SPIRIT AND TRUTH: and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

How would a protestant or non catholic explain their worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

To me to worship God in spirit and truth, can only be done through the Mass, Because we have Jesus truly present in body soul and divinity, we have truth, along with the word of God, in his law and prophets followed by the testimonies of the Apostles climaxed by the gospel himself the Word of God made present. During all this liturgical worship in truth, instituted by Jesus Christ himself, we enter into the Holy of Holies, Where all the angels and saints including the Blessed Mother come together as one body in Jesus Christ to worship God in Spirit.

Can you summarize your church worship services, How you worship God in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

Gabriel do you understand that when Jesus says the hour is near he’s referring to HIS imminent death and the birth of the new covenant which removes the old sacrificial system, replacing it with HIS perfect sacrifice. As I said before Jesus uses the words spirit, true, and truth many times. That implies worshipping GOD through our Faith in Jesus.

At our church like I said we worship in song, prayer, scripture, the Lord’s supper etc. etc. Just like it’s described in Acts after Pentecost and probably more similar to the didache although our building is much bigger. Actually the mass bears no resemblance to the worship style described in the didache so you can’t say that the mass has been in place for over 2000 years. And 2000 years ago Jesus was about 8 years old. The church wasn’t even born yet. I know technically but I hate exagerations

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I’m glad you aren’t offended, but disappointed that you can’t see the difference between a command (which one would follow) and a prophecy (which would come to pass). This verse is a prophecy.

**I percieve you to be intelligent, and can tell the difference between When Jesus says “the Hour is coming and is now here” What part is prophecy and what is present?

and I know you dont think this is not a command from Jesus when he states "and those who worship him MUST worship him in Spirit and Truth.**** I understand the prophecy aspect to this scripture, I hope we are in agreement in fulfillment, but what part of the word "MUST’ you think I dont understand coming from Jesus? .**

Jesus is telling the Samaritan woman what will happen-not what she must do. Neither she, nor the Samartians, nor the Jews had the knowledge at this time to worship in spirit and truth as Christ wanted them to.

Do you always go into defining scripture, that everyone knows, and make insults, to build your confidence on the matters of truth, or can you just stick to the topic at hand, and answer the question?

I am grateful that Jesus saw fit to incorporate me into the truth through baptism (since Jesus is the truth and baptism incorporates us into Him) and into the Spirit (since we receive the Spirit in salvation) giving me the same experience as the Samaritans.

You received the same experience as the Samaritans how? your not confusing baptism with consecration are you?

In return, I worship Him as they did in Acts-devoting myself to the Apostles’ teaching as written in their Epistles and the Gospels, through breaking of bread by participating in the Lord’s Supper and through prayer as the Spirit within me leads.

That is how I worship in spirit and truth, being a continued fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy to the Samaritan woman, along with all others who make up His church.

Any other questions?

Yes, since your the only brave soul, to inform me.

When you mention the teaching of the epistles and the Gospels and the Apostles teachings. When we worship God, we follow the Apostles teachings through scripture as well as Sacred Tradition on how they taught us to worship God, do you follow the Sacred Tradition of the Apostles?

Also the early Church always read the tora before entering into the breaking of the Bread and recieving the cup of blessing and the body of Christ, just like we do when we read from the Tora and the Prophets. Do you do the same as Catholics and the first century Christian Church did.?

First of all , The epistles were not yet, and the Gospels were not yet only the oral Tradition, the Tora and prophets. In Acts 2:42 doesnt say anything about epistles or gospels. So I ask another queastion again, In your Spirit and Truth Worship to God, do you follow Sacred Tradition of the Apostles or What?

 

[Non_Serviam]

Yes, since your the only brave soul, to inform me.

When you mention the teaching of the epistles and the Gospels and the Apostles teachings. When we worship God, we follow the Apostles teachings through scripture as well as Sacred Tradition on how they taught us to worship God, do you follow the Sacred Tradition of the Apostles?

Also the early Church always read the tora before entering into the breaking of the Bread and recieving the cup of blessing and the body of Christ, just like we do when we read from the Tora and the Prophets. Do you do the same as Catholics and the first century Christian Church did.?

First of all , The epistles were not yet, and the Gospels were not yet only the oral Tradition, the Tora and prophets. In Acts 2:42 doesnt say anything about epistles or gospels. So I ask another queastion again, In your Spirit and Truth Worship to God, do you follow Sacred Tradition of the Apostles or What?

Since you asked:

First of your church selects quotes from the entire Tanakh, not just the Torah. The Torah is the Law, not the entire Old Testament. As you know Jesus referred to “the Law and the Prophets” The Tanakh is the Jewish term for the Old Testament (the Law, Prophets and Writings) and I’m willing to concede the Catholic canon since it was found in the Septuagint.

Now that we have that clear, yes we do read Scripture from the Old Testament.

As to Sacred Tradition I refer you to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 NAB

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

Paul said there were two ways his readers received Sacred Tradition-orally or in his Epistles. Same Tradition, two means of reception.

Since the Apostles were all dead by 100AD, they aren’t communicating orally at this point in time, but their Epistles still exist-so yes I’m following the Sacred Tradition of the Apostles per Paul’s command.

Since Paul says Sacred Tradition is contained in his Epistles, where do you get the authority to describe it as two separate things?

we follow the Apostles teachings through scripture as well as Sacred Tradition

(emphasis mine)

I’m going to head to bed and give you time to ponder Paul’s words.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Since you asked:

First of your church selects quotes from the entire Tanakh, not just the Torah. The Torah is the Law, not the entire Old Testament. As you know Jesus referred to “the Law and the Prophets” The Tanakh is the Jewish term for the Old Testament (the Law, Prophets and Writings) and I’m willing to concede the Catholic canon since it was found in the Septuagint.

Now that we have that clear, yes we do read Scripture from the Old Testament.

As to Sacred Tradition I refer you to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 NAB

Paul said there were two ways his readers received Sacred Tradition-orally or in his Epistles. Same Tradition, two means of reception.

Since the Apostles were all dead by 100AD, they aren’t communicating orally at this point in time, but their Epistles still exist-so yes I’m following the Sacred Tradition of the Apostles per Paul’s command.

Since Paul says Sacred Tradition is contained in his Epistles, where do you get the authority to describe it as two separate things?

(emphasis mine)

I’m going to head to bed and give you time to ponder Paul’s words.

I understand, your not educating me yet, do you use these writings in a formal liturgical worship in community, you know, respond to the law of Moses, recite the Psalms of David, respond to the prophets, and stand to hear the Gospel proclaimed. We read scripture according to the cycle of the universe, seasons, and feasts days, The four Gospels are read in sequence to the stars depending which Gospel year we are in, corresponds to the world on its axis, to the signs of the stars. We also have our feast days alingned with the seasons. Our worship of Gods word through the holy spirit becomes eternity in time. Do you worship the true word of God in a liturgical calender, or pick and Chose your readings for each sunday? And you are mistaken we do read from the Tora, and the prophets, along with the testimonies of the Apostles and reference Gods word in posture and prayer, especially the Gospel, and we havent even gotten into prayer and the liturgy of the Eucharist.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel you don’t have to call me Mr. Deacon although it’s very sweet. I certainly wasn’t criticizing your style of worship as this was how I worshipped GOD growing up in the Roman Catholic church. But the implication of your message was that the RCC way was the only way. You did not merely ask a simple question of worshipping GOD with regard to John 4. The exact text is:

“How would a protestant or non catholic explain their worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.”

You’re asking for an explanation and then writing:

“To me to worship God in spirit and truth, can only be done through the Mass”.

Instead of asking how do protestant churches worship GOD you quoted John 4:23-24 using all caps in some places. Then the first few lines as shown above say you already are excluding Protestant methods as being invalid. If you didn’t intend it that way then don’t write it that way The content of your post has you speaking for GOD when GOD can certainly speak for HIMSELF.

If you are truly interested in asking how non-RCC denominations worship GOD with regard to John 4, then ask that question plain and simple. You may also want to preface it that you are not trying to bait anyone but merely learn something new.

And by the way personal prayer is a form of private worship to GOD. I’m worshipping GOD by asking for HIS divine guidance and spiritual support. My example of David was to merely demonstrate that there is no one right way of doing it.

PEACE

I am sorry you misunderstood me, if you misunderstand me, thats fine, Just ask for more clarification without jumping to conclusions and insults, there is no harm done here. But I could not put the question any clearer than I have. I believe a question from you for clarification was more in order, not the accusations.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Another baiting thread.

Why do you think Jesus called fishermen into his ministry?

If Spirit and Truth bring fear upon you, it should, if you dont know like the Samaritans, but if you have it, share it here. You wont get condemned by me. Only the holy Spirit will convict those in errror.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel do you understand that when Jesus says the hour is near he’s referring to HIS imminent death and the birth of the new covenant which removes the old sacrificial system, replacing it with HIS perfect sacrifice.

Deacon I am sorry to state you are mistaken, Jesus does not state the hour is near, Jesus states the Hour is now here!. I hope this can clarify my thought to this post for you.

As I said before Jesus uses the words spirit, true, and truth many times. That implies worshipping GOD through our Faith in Jesus.

If this is so, Deacon, then answer me this? When Jesus speaks about the Spirit is he meaning the Spirit in a symbolic way or a Truthful reality? Your answer to this will help me understand your position on the eternal realities.

At our church like I said we worship in song, prayer, scripture, the Lord’s supper etc. etc. Just like it’s described in Acts after Pentecost and probably more similar to the didache although our building is much bigger.

So your saying you follow Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture is this correct? when you say you follow the teachings of the Apostles?

Actually the mass bears no resemblance to the worship style described in the didache so you can’t say that the mass has been in place for over 2000 years

You are misunderstood, The Didache, I never mentioned, you did.
Arguing this false claim is not my intention here, there are plenty forums to do that. The didache is a instruction to Catholic (Universal Christian) communities not a Liturgical instruction booklet. Besides the Eucharist is described in this document. Do you subscribe to the Didache instructions? If you do then your community is Catholic.
**And yes The Catholic Church has been celebrating the Sacraficial Mass since Jesus Christ instituted it. there are plenty of scriptural support for The Catholic Mass, from the old prefigurement and prophecies, until the fulfillment through Jesus Christ. ** But my question was put forth to you, but if you want me to explain the Catholic Worship in Spirit and Truth, through the scriptures Just ask me?, Dont insult my faith that you claim to have knowledge of and then make false accusations about her worship. I think it would be better if you ask for an explanation of your misunderstanding, otherwise you provoke unneccessary, misunderstandings.

. And 2000 years ago Jesus was about 8 years old. The church wasn’t even born yet. I know technically but I hate exagerations

Actually technically it dates back even further to the time of Abraham and Moses, for our Worship is the fulfillment of the Law and prophets, in Jesus Christ. Amen. But thats not the issue. You know Deacon, Why is it when a Catholic asks a Protestant something pertaining to Christian theology, The Protestant is quick to attack the belief of the Catholic and not answer the question?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Since you asked:

Now that we have that clear, yes we do read Scripture from the Old Testament.

How do you read it, and who gives the infallible teaching from scriputure? and how do subscribe to Spirit and Truth here from your reading of the old testament?

As to Sacred Tradition I refer you to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 NAB
Paul said there were two ways his readers received Sacred Tradition-orally or in his Epistles. Same Tradition, two means of reception.

Hey that is interesting, I never heard anyone outside the Catholic church believe in Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, See I learned something from you, not all non catholics believe Sola Scriptura, Sola Fe. Your the first one that I have come across to admit such a belief, you just earned my respect, do your members know you believe this way? I would be concerned for your Catholic beliefs in a non Catholic setting?

Since the Apostles were all dead by 100AD, they aren’t communicating orally at this point in time, but their Epistles still exist-so yes I’m following the Sacred Tradition of the Apostles per Paul’s command.

Since Paul says Sacred Tradition is contained in his Epistles, where do you get the authority to describe it as two separate things?

**You should know! thats easy, from the beloved Apostle of Jesus the one that lived the longest, and told us in

John 21:24… “It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true. THERE ARE ALSO MANY OTHER THINGS THAT JESUS DID, BUT IF THESE WERE TO BE DESCRIBED INDIVIDUALLY, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written” Thus oral Sacred Traditions handed down to the Catholic church from the Apostles.Do you subcsribe to the true Sacred Traditions from the Apostles or just the ones that are written, because if you do, not all got written, so maybe your Traditions are not complete?**

(emphasis mine)

I’m going to head to bed and give you time to ponder Paul’s words.

So I hope you can explain to me your Traditions from the apostles that are not written but Orally handed down through Sacred Traditon and Sacred Scripture, Now I should warn you, you cannot have Sacred Tradition without Sacred Scripture, they both go hand in hand, according to the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Deacon110]

Actually technically it dates back even further to the time of Abraham and Moses, for our Worship is the fulfillment of the Law and prophets, in Jesus Christ. Amen. But thats not the issue. You know Deacon, Why is it when a Catholic asks a Protestant something pertaining to Christian theology, The Protestant is quick to attack the belief of the Catholic and not answer the question?

Gabriel you’re embedding 2 responses into 1 making it difficult to follow.

So let’s start from square one which is your orginal question regarding John 4:23-24. We’ll set aside any pre-conceived notions about what was inferred or implied or derogatory because it was done by both sides. I would certainly also appreciate if you would stop taking the I did nothing wrong position as this post was mis-interpreted by many and not the few. Fair enough??

So let’s start with what Jesus is referring to here in this small section of John. We can’t interpret John 4: 23-24 without looking at the previous verses to find out what is going on here. This is called proof-texting and leads to mis-interpretation.

The samaritan women is talking about which place is the right place to worship in which Jesus responds that the Jews know all about the Father and they (the samaritans) know little. But then Jesus continues and communicates that the time is coming and in fact is here now, referring to HIMSELF, that true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and Truth.

So what does this all mean? Basically Jesus is implying that the old system of sacrifices will no longer be applicable as a form of worship and that the new form will be in spirit and truth. What is the truth? Jesus obviously and the worship will be more of a spiritual nature, that of excepting Jesus as your savior. If you keep reading this chapter you will notice that the samaritan seems confuesd about what Jesus is saying and mentions that the Christ is coming and will explain everything. Jesus reveals HIMSELF as the Messiah to the Samaritan woman which circles back to verse 23 that the time is here now. This is what Jesus has been hinting at all along.

So how do we at our local church follow this spiritual worship?? Well as I said we worship in song, prayer, scripture, the Lord’s supper etc. etc. I couldn’t have been clearer to you than I was before. I refuse to go into a debate about the inaccuracies of your other comments. It’s just a useless conversation.

PEACE