How does Contemplation fit into the Consecration to Jesus through Mary?

[glenaitken]

Do you think maybe people get carried away with reading Sts. Tersea and John of the Cross, worrying too much about what to expect and whether or not you’re “doing things right,” when perhaps when a person is ready to receive, God will just provide and guide them in prayer?

i think this happens alot. the truth is that as long as you are doing your best to do the things you mentioned in your last post you can’t really go wrong. its important to remember that not all of the saintsdescribe the journey the same way because it is going to look different for each person and each person is going to have a unique mission and grace and vocation. this isi another reason that the analogies are so different. for john, this union is a fire and for theresa it is a house- when you combine them by over thrinking things and trying to be every saint you burn down the house.

 

[DBT]

Do you think maybe people get carried away with reading Sts. Tersea and John of the Cross, worrying too much about what to expect and whether or not you’re “doing things right,” when perhaps when a person is ready to receive, God will just provide and guide them in prayer?

In the end, the Holy Spirit will be our guide . . . all we do is say “Yes” and let Him show the way.

Sometimes I like to walk around our parish grounds simply observing. During the course of my “travels” I’ve come across a dozen or so people who clearly have a contemplative bent. On any number of occassions I’ve seen some of these souls - including our young priest who just got kicked upstairs to Rome - in very deep prayer, no doubt in my mind infused.

Do they know what they are doing? Does it matter if they do? Or are they simply praying as they’ve been taught by the Holy Spirit? I’ve felt no special inspiration to try and introduce these souls to the teachings of the Saints . . . for it is apparent they are being led very well.

I think the Holy Spirit brings souls to the writings of the Saints all on his own when He wants to inflame their understanding. For others, the inflaming of the will is all that is needed and “book knowledge” does more harm than good. If we feel drawn to the writings of the Saints that is all well and good and it is probably an inspiration we should respond to . . . so long as we draw profit from it. If we don’t feel drawn, then let it go and don’t beat ourselves up. The key, of course, is striking a balance in all of this and recognizing that our experiences may or may not match what the Saints describe . . . but whatever is given is what is best for us.

Not sure if this helps . . .

Dave.

 

[InLight247]

Originally by glenaitken
………it’s important to remember that not all of the saints describe the journey the same way because it is going to look different for each person and each person is going to have a unique mission and grace and vocation. This is another reason that the analogies are so different. For john, this union is a fire and for Theresa it is a house- when you combine them by over thinking things and trying to be every saint you burn down the house.

We surely don’t want to burn down the house. Although we care about our spiritual progress, but really, contemplation or not, or which mansion we are in ……., does it really matter?

What really matters are the capacities of our cups. Everyone’s cup will be fully filled in heaven, but the sizes of our cups make the difference.

What I like to work on is the size of my cup – to have a larger emptier cup for containing more God’s grace and glory. The bigger the capacity, the more I will be filled. And the capacity of each one’s cup is decided in this life. Once a person leaves, the size of his cup is set.

Receiving infused contemplation is up to God, enlarging the capacity of my cup is up to me, that is with God’s help.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Joysong]

DBT:

I think the Holy Spirit brings souls to the writings of the Saints all on his own when He wants to inflame their understanding. For others, the inflaming of the will is all that is needed and “book knowledge” does more harm than good.

I agree that reading of these supernatural experiences may actually hinder one’s growth in virtue, particularly when these saints’ writings cause us to desire God’s supernatural gifts. God always knows our purity of intention, and if the desire is inordinate, He wisely withholds these gifts. How could desire for them be inordinate? When these are sought out of curiosity or spiritual envy, or to measure one’s progress in spirituality or holiness — the focus is on ‘self.’

St. John of the Cross lovingly reminds us that truly devout people often have these spiritual imperfections. God places us into the famed ‘dark night’ in order to purify us of these hidden habits. The beginning of his classic writing depicts the many imperfections in our souls, such as spiritual gluttony and spiritual envy (chapters 6 and 7), which seems to be the root of this desire for consolations or spiritual experiences. I remember seeing a movie about St. Bernadette where a ‘spiritually’ envious nun in her community complained to God that she was never given special graces – after all, she was a very good nun and did all kinds of penances, prayers, etc., so why was she not favored like Bernadette?

Earlier in the thread, someone asked about a description of infused contemplation. I refrained from answering because until one experiences it, words will never be able to supply for the lack of knowing. When it is given by God, one knows that they know that they know – unmistakably, and needs no further definition.

The holiest path is that of humility, letting God lead each of us according to His perfect will.

 

[DBT]

What really matters are the capacities of our cups. Everyone’s cup will be fully filled in heaven, but the sizes of our cups make the difference.

What I like to work on is the size of my cup – to have a larger emptier cup for containing more God’s grace and glory. The bigger the capacity, the more I will be filled. And the capacity of each one’s cup is decided in this life. Once a person leaves, the size of his cup is set.

St. Therese would be proud

In heaven, all will be satisfied . . . whether our cup is the size of a thimble or a bucket. We will be filled.

Dave

 

[puzzleannie]

In the St. Louis de Montfort Method of Consecrating one’s self to Jesus through Mary, what happens if at some point one feels called to a more imageless form of prayer such as Contemplative prayer? What then does one do with their devotion to Our Lady and the path one was following accoding to it?

If Our Lord Himself calls us to Contemplative Prayer, should we not abandon all other methods and paths?

unable to understand how one assumes contemplative prayer rejects all other forms of devotion or expression. the purpose of Marian devotions esp. the rosary is to lead one to contemplation, or make one receptive to contemplation, so what is the conflict?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I think all participants here need to read the “Dark Night,” by St. John of the Cross, which Joysong linked, if you don’t have the hard copy.

I got lucky and found an audio version, which I’m listening to on my commute.

Even though I read the book years back when I first began contemplative prayer, I’m amazed at how much more I’m understanding this time around.

Jim

 

[DBT]

so what is the conflict?

Summarizing what has been discussed thusfar . . .

I think the conflict has to do with what one means by “give up” our devotions for contemplation.

Certainly it is best to “give up” our devotion if . . . in the midst of our practice . . . one feels drawn to the type of imageless prayer the OP mentioned (unless it is an obligation like the LOTH for priests/religious/seculars). But that does not mean one “gives up” our other ways of prayer . . . as in forever.

I know, at one time, this was a very confusing point for me as well . . .

Dave.

 

[InLight247]

St. Therese would be proud

In heaven, all will be satisfied . . . whether our cup is the size of a thimble or a bucket. We will be filled.

Dave

St. Therese is amazing. She understood many profound spiritual things from a very young age. This “size of the cup” was taught to her when she was just a little girl. And she fully absorbed it. Her autobiography shows that by the time she had her first communion, she was detached from many earthly things and has already tasted contemplation. No wonder God took her home when she was only twenty four. She has successfully completed all the lessons and developed all the virtues she was supposed to have.

 

[littleone]

Maybe you are right, and I don’t think that i will try to understand any of it.I only know that what happens to me seems to work. I see people set free, youth who i helped out years ago seem to call ring email. Those without parents I seem to take the place of some how.
I went to work and just looked up at the stars, and started crying telling Jesus how mighty He is compared. A love which I cannot compare or express other than to say that it came over my whole inner being, filled me and started me crying, I had to ask Jesus what He was doing? He just said I want just to love you. I felt that I was going to fall over I could not contain my strength, I was so, not weak, not overpowered but even the word but it was like I was in probably something like heaven I guess the things of the world were there but in me was like only a love that I knew it was Jesus I can’t explain it.
This happened over some nights. Each time it left me crying for the love that was in me.

One morning at work I wrote a poem about the Thrush bird, the sun and then it turned into the Son. Three says latter I got married, at our wedding was a thrush inside the church building. When the singers sang and at the consecration the Thrush which was on a ledge near the Tabernacle started to sing.I never noticed this but people took photos.
I wrote a song about Jesus “Oh precious Jesus” one part says “i give you my eyes that i may see Your Loving face”. I went into the church gazed on the picture of Jesus and I had to close my eyes and blink because I saw Jesus face and the love poring out into me. I asked Jesus why this was happening? He told me to look at the poem. “i give you my eyes that i may see Your Loving face”.

Just to look into His eyes. look into and past the stars, to see Jesus in those who have been forgotten by the world left homeless, in the animals God made, in the plants, clouds, all make me cry in joy of His glory and love for His creating.

If this is contemplation or the others praise God, if it is other I don’t mind, it is all good.
Maybe I will never know what it is in this flesh but i will know when I reach that place where we all become like God.
Godbless

 

[littleone]

I wish to thank you all for our concerns and help I will withdraw now since I believe that the time is right to do so. I do not wish to draw into my own being.
I hope you find your answers.
Godbless you all.

 

[glenaitken]

Summarizing what has been discussed thusfar . . .

I think the conflict has to do with what one means by “give up” our devotions for contemplation.

Certainly it is best to “give up” our devotion if . . . in the midst of our practice . . . one feels drawn to the type of imageless prayer the OP mentioned (unless it is an obligation like the LOTH for priests/religious/seculars). But that does not mean one “gives up” our other ways of prayer . . . as in forever.

I know, at one time, this was a very confusing point for me as well . . .

Dave.

I think too that once the contemplation is over that you should go back to what you were doing. ie: praying the rosary you go into contemplation on the third mystery, when you come back to yourself, you should finish the rosary. i think that it would be kind of rude not to. you are giving a gift to our Lord, and in the middle of it he gives one to you- this should not stop you from completing your present to Jesus- it should enhance it

 

[mangy_dog]

People please,

Stop nit-picking Littleones’ choice of words. Everything you all have said has a little to do with contemplation and nothing to do with contemplation.

Active, passive, infused…rumination, meditation…etc etc. You are all talking about the same thing.

It is our minds resting in God - waiting for Him, in silence and stillness of soul.

This can be brought on at any time and triggered by our eyes falling on some object of art or beauty, which causes us to remember with the soul.

For me often times its the thought of sailing and changing the sails to catch the wind to move the boat, …the wind fades and again I have to change the sails…this time just a whisp of wind…

Aquiesce anima mea in Deus salus mea.

 

[glenaitken]

People please,

Stop nit-picking Littleones’ choice of words. Everything you all have said has a little to do with contemplation and nothing to do with contemplation.

Active, passive, infused…rumination, meditation…etc etc. You are all talking about the same thing.

It is our minds resting in God - waiting for Him, in silence and stillness of soul.

This can be brought on at any time and triggered by our eyes falling on some object of art or beauty, which causes us to remember with the soul.

For me often times its the thought of sailing and changing the sails to catch the wind to move the boat, …the wind fades and again I have to change the sails…this time just a whisp of wind…

Aquiesce anima mea in Deus salus mea.

mangy dog,
these are not the same thing. you are describing awe and wonder- respect for the beauty of God and His creation. this is great, but it is not contemplation

 

[mangy_dog]

mangy dog,
these are not the same thing. you are describing awe and wonder- respect for the beauty of God and His creation. this is great, but it is not contemplation

With that, I remove myself from this thread.

 

[DBT]

Stop nit-picking Littleones’ choice of words.

For the life of me I don’t know how you came to this conclusion What Littleone says . . . and how he says it . . . is wonderful. We’re all just trying to help each other along . . . each in our own way.

Dave

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I think too that once the contemplation is over that you should go back to what you were doing.

I’m not sure what you mean here, but, contemplation never ends. Contemplation is in every aspect of life for a contemplative.

Jim

 

[InLight247]

People please,

Stop nit-picking Littleones’ choice of words.

With that, I remove myself from this thread.

Perhaps you did not really follow this long thread from the beginning.

If you take the patience to read every post on this thread, you will know that no one has picked on anyone.

The reason littleone said he will withdraw is not because of any “picking”, but because he has successfully expressed all his own precious experiences and said all he wanted to say.

And what littleone has shared are indeed very precious.

 

[mangy_dog]

For the life of me I don’t know how you came to this conclusion What Littleone says . . . and how he says it . . . is wonderful. We’re all just trying to help each other along . . . each in our own way.

Dave

Ok good.

 

[beckycmarie]

glenaitken:

I think too that once the contemplation is over that you should go back to what you were doing.

I’m not sure what you mean here, but, contemplation never ends. Contemplation is in every aspect of life for a contemplative.

Jim

I thought infused contemplation only lasted 15-30 minutes. Perhaps you’re referring to recollection when you say “contemplation never ends?”