AmbroseSJ, what a great non-answer.
Leopard, the Marian dogmas carry an anathema for anyone who does not believe them. As the Angel said at the annunciation, “…the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35) I most certainly believe Jesus is fully God and fully man, and that He was born of Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit, and that she was a virgin until after Jesus was born. Your argument is very simplistic.
Cthulhubryan, yours appears to be the best effort so far (though there are 4 Marian dogmas, and a 5th is pending). As I pointed out above, I do believe Jesus is fully God and fully man, and that Mary was a virgin when she conceived Him by the Holy Spirit (and remained virgin until His birth). As for praying to her, how loud do you have to pray for someone who is no longer living to hear you? I’d be happy to discuss prayers to dead saints another time, but it’s a bit off topic here. Let’s address the dogmas you’ve mentioned –
Ever virgin – first of all, the Church asserts that Mary remained virgin (that includes remaining physically intact) before, during and after the birth of Jesus. This comes from Gnostic works, such as the Protevangelium of James (according to this work, Jesus basically “beamed out” of Mary). Your analogy is also flawed. Remember, Mary was already engaged to Joseph before the angel came to see her. There are also passages that mention his brothers and sisters (Matt 12:46, 13:54-56, Mark 3:31-32, 6:1-3). I would suggest that Hannah (Samuel’s mother) would be a type of Mary (she gave her first born to the Lord, and he rewarded her with 4 boys and 3 girls in Samuel’s place – see 1 Sam 1-2). Let’s rework your analogy – the King needs a surrogate mother, and your wife meets the specific criteria to ensure success. You both agree, and she is impregnated (a common practice these days). Once the child was born, wouldn’t you and your wife resume normal marital relations?
Immaculate Conception – I have looked in several Bible versions and checked many lexicons in the original Greek, and nowhere do I find “Full of grace” being equal to “preserved from sin from the moment of conception”. If Mary HAD to be sinless to be the mother of Jesus, God could have cleansed her when the angel came in and greeted her, couldn’t He? Of course! Mary did not have to be born sinless, even if it was a requirement for being the mother of the Son of God.
Assumption into Heaven – This is one that I could see actually being possible, but I don’t see how it is necessary to believe. The argument that Mary was worthy falls flat upon examination. No question about Enoch and Elijah being taken up bodily into heaven. They were taken up while alive. Why? One thing I’ve noticed as I study the Scriptures, God has a purpose. I would point to Heb 9:27 (“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”). These two didn’t die (yet). Next, look at Rev 11:3 (“And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth”). Some think this will be Enoch and Moses, but Moses died. We know they’re human because they are killed after 1,260 days. They will be raised up after 3 days and taken up into Heaven. What is the purpose for Mary being assumed into Heaven? I can’t find one in scripture. Doesn’t mean it couldn’t have happened, I just don’t happen to believe it.
I’ll end this and see what else has come in. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut!
) I used to be an angry catholic basher myself and it was with sincere hearts that we longed to pull you out of this false gospel. He was never truly Catholic in his heart and mind- because a child of God exposed to this truth will fall down on his or her knees in humilty and gratitude upon discovering the Lords true Church- but not until the last exhaustive effort to prove it wrong has run its course! It took me 10 years to join- for 10 years I knew… my pride was sooo hurt. Thats why I say you fall down first in humilty- then in gratitude.
