How does one begin Courtship?

[Mr_Kelvin]

How does one begin courtship? Or is it supposed to just magically happen like in Hollywood movies? From my bad experiences, every time I tried to pursue a woman, it always ended in disaster. Most women don’t want to marry today, and all immediately go into flight mode if she thinks she is dealing with a so called “manly man”. You can’t just go up to a girl you like, or someone you’ve known on and off for years, and say want to go to lunch? I know this all sounds simplistic, but I am to afraid to come out of my shell, after all the bad experiences. And why waste time with a woman if you don’t feel you have anything to offer her? She wants security, and I don’t have that unfortunately at this time. If I was ever to attempt anything again, it would have to be a clear written direction. I don’t believe relationships just magically happen, nor do I believe God just sends you a spouse if you pray for it and do nothing. But, I am stuck in my own insecurities and resentments, so I digress. Plus, I truly believe no woman would look up to me as someone that could provide for them and protect them. They would see my failings and overlook my noble traits completely. I guess they would not be enough to outweigh my human imperfections. They always judge me on face value, and there is no need to go any further.

I wish courtship was just something magical where two people met, were just friends, common interests develop, and God just brought them together without allowing people to be devastated with bad feelings, anger, resentment, and broken hearts. What good is it and what good can possibly have come from breakups? Oh, well, it makes you a man cause really you aren’t a man if you need a woman that BAD…end of line.

 

[FriendlyFace]

How does one begin courtship? Or is it supposed to just magically happen like in Hollywood movies? From my bad experiences, every time I tried to pursue a woman, it always ended in disaster. Most women don’t want to marry today, and all immediately go into flight mode if she thinks she is dealing with a so called “manly man”. You can’t just go up to a girl you like, or someone you’ve known on and off for years, and say want to go to lunch? I know this all sounds simplistic, but I am to afraid to come out of my shell, after all the bad experiences. And why waste time with a woman if you don’t feel you have anything to offer her? She wants security, and I don’t have that unfortunately at this time. If I was ever to attempt anything again, it would have to be a clear written direction. I don’t believe relationships just magically happen, nor do I believe God just sends you a spouse if you pray for it and do nothing. But, I am stuck in my own insecurities and resentments, so I digress. Plus, I truly believe no woman would look up to me as someone that could provide for them and protect them. They would see my failings and overlook my noble traits completely. I guess they would not be enough to outweigh my human imperfections. They always judge me on face value, and there is no need to go any further.

Most women don’t want to marry? Since when? If women flee from a guy, something else is going on. Women like for men to be manly, and it’s perfectly acceptable to ask a woman out to lunch.

I get the feeling from your post that you’re a bit insecure, and that may be the real issue. Confidence is very attractive, insecurity not so much.

I wish courtship was just something magical where two people met, were just friends, common interests develop, and God just brought them together without allowing people to be devastated with bad feelings, anger, resentment, and broken hearts. What good is it and what good can possibly have come from breakups? Oh, well, it makes you a man cause really you aren’t a man if you need a woman that BAD…end of line.

I’m sorry you’re feelings are hurt. Take care.

 

[Phil_Marinus]

What your saying is basically the same problem humanity has faced since year Dot…
When I started talking to girls in the 60’s , my mother was expecting a bride for me virtually over the weekend… Girls thought you just wanted one thing, there brothers were going to bash you up , and every other male had the best girlfriend ever, and you could only attract what no one else wanted, and girls experienced the same … That’s life !
Best is try not to worry to much… Just be yourself and don’t try to over impress,
And everything will work out… It did for me, I met the love of my life at 25 ,
But even that didn’t last, lol

 

[Xantippe]

But how to get confidence after being demoralized? That’s a problem.

“You can’t just go up to a girl you like, or someone you’ve known on and off for years, and say want to go to lunch?”

Sure you can. Let’s say you work together and it’s 11:30. You can say, I’m thinking of going to the new Indian place for lunch. Does anybody want to come? (addressing your object of interest, as well as anybody standing nearby). If she says yes, it’s not a date yet (because a date at least initially involves the inviter paying the way of the invitee), but you’re having lunch together, which is something. Now it’s true that you may wind up with no takers and you may wind up with half a dozen people, none of whom is your object of interest. But it’s still good practice.

Likewise, let’s say you go to a Bible study or reading group and the group is starting to break up for the night. You can do the same maneuver, but say something like, this is really interesting, but I’d like to discuss it over a cup of coffee. Does anybody want to go with me to XYZ coffee house? Or if it’s around dinner time, do the same for dinner.

Even if you don’t improve your romantic life, you’ll improve your social life and practice some important skills.

I agree that it’s harder to do this from a cold start, but if you mention lunch or coffee or dinner when people are starting to think about lunch or coffee or dinner, you’ve let the occasion and the time of day do 50% of your work.

“They always judge me on face value, and there is no need to go any further.”

How about working on improving your face value? If you’re broke, think about improving your earning potential. If you have a bad hair cut, get a better one. If you have dandruff, smell funny, have bad posture, pick your nose, wear dirty or ragged clothes, take the obvious steps, finances permitting. Do the best with what you’ve got.

Also, bear in mind that you are judging women on face value just as much. It’s very unlikely that you’ve been asking out a succession of fat, pimply wallflowers.

 

[TK421]

If you don’t actually know a lot about these women you try to date, I’d like to point out that you could be asking to date women that are already seeing somebody, so they’re probably not going to just ditch the other person. Remember that they’re human too, and their character is lacking just like yours is, and they might not have the candor to just say that, and choose to be aversive instead, thus leaving you with a deceived impression of yourself. In my experience, women tend to struggle a lot with candor. They’re terrified of sounding impolite, so you might want to help them out by subtly nudging the truth out of them. At some point I would ask the question “Are you seeing anybody?” (or something like that) yourself, because you can’t necessarily rely on them letting you know. If you ask the question yourself, then they’re not going to feel nearly as uncomfortable giving you a yes or no answer. If they’re already with somebody, then that’s no skin off your back.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Most women don’t want to marry? Since when? If women flee from a guy, something else is going on. Women like for men to be manly, and it’s perfectly acceptable to ask a woman out to lunch.

I get the feeling from your post that you’re a bit insecure, and that may be the real issue. Confidence is very attractive, insecurity not so much.

.

Yep!

I think most women want manly men. I don’t know of any girl who says that her ideal boyfriend/husband is a sissy. lol.

 

[GusIsAGirl]

You absolutely CAN just ask someone out to lunch, even if you’ve known them for years and years. That’s how my last boyfriend asked me out. Out of the blue, after knowing each other for years, he asked me to lunch. It didn’t work out, but only because we weren’t suited.

But as for security…I am in my 40s and am self employed and pretty darn poor, but getting by. If I were to get married, it would have to be to a man with some sort of security. If my needs are met by myself, why would I want to struggle with someone else’s poverty too?

Being a manly man is not a bad thing at all.

 

[on_the_hill]

First of all, try to ask someone you know. If you don’t know anyone, ask a friend for a reference. Seriously. A lot of guys approach women they’ve never met, then wonder why they get turned down.

Second, keep it as simple as possible. Make it a cup of coffee.

Third, reread the question in your post:

"You can’t just go up to a girl you like, or someone you’ve known on and off for years, and say want to go to lunch? And why waste time with a woman if you don’t feel you have anything to offer her? What good is it and what good can possibly have come from breakups? "

Would *you *want to date someone with that outlook?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Most women don’t want to marry? Since when? If women flee from a guy, something else is going on. Women like for men to be manly, and it’s perfectly acceptable to ask a woman out to lunch.
.

Yes, I agree with all of that, based on my experiences only of course. I’m 30 and of the girl-friends I grew up, girls I went to high school with, etc., I would say 8 out of 10 of them are either married already or have just become engaged. Maybe this guy is looking in the wrong place.

Also agree with the rest of it: about asking a woman, a man being manly, etc.

 

[chevalier]

How does one begin courtship? Or is it supposed to just magically happen like in Hollywood movies?

One just reads a lot of Victorian novels (they must be set no later than 1890) and it comes naturally at that point.

Real life, dude, real life.

But, I am stuck in my own insecurities and resentments, so I digress. Plus, I truly believe no woman would look up to me as someone that could provide for them and protect them. They would see my failings and overlook my noble traits completely. I guess they would not be enough to outweigh my human imperfections. They always judge me on face value, and there is no need to go any further.

If you get over both your noble traits and your human imperfections, it’ll get easier.

 

[Cat]

How does one begin courtship? Or is it supposed to just magically happen like in Hollywood movies? From my bad experiences, every time I tried to pursue a woman, it always ended in disaster. Most women don’t want to marry today, and all immediately go into flight mode if she thinks she is dealing with a so called “manly man”. You can’t just go up to a girl you like, or someone you’ve known on and off for years, and say want to go to lunch? I know this all sounds simplistic, but I am to afraid to come out of my shell, after all the bad experiences. And why waste time with a woman if you don’t feel you have anything to offer her? She wants security, and I don’t have that unfortunately at this time. If I was ever to attempt anything again, it would have to be a clear written direction. I don’t believe relationships just magically happen, nor do I believe God just sends you a spouse if you pray for it and do nothing. But, I am stuck in my own insecurities and resentments, so I digress. Plus, I truly believe no woman would look up to me as someone that could provide for them and protect them. They would see my failings and overlook my noble traits completely. I guess they would not be enough to outweigh my human imperfections. They always judge me on face value, and there is no need to go any further.

I wish courtship was just something magical where two people met, were just friends, common interests develop, and God just brought them together without allowing people to be devastated with bad feelings, anger, resentment, and broken hearts. What good is it and what good can possibly have come from breakups? Oh, well, it makes you a man cause really you aren’t a man if you need a woman that BAD…end of line.

I’m a 56-year old woman who has been happily married to the same great guy for 34 years.

When I read your post, I get the impression that you are thinking too much about you. You’ve spent a lot of time analyzing your own character and assessing your debits and credits.

This is why women aren’t interested in you. Women don’t want to be with a guy who is self-absorbed. They want to be with a guy who is fascinated with them, not himself.

IMO, you should try to cultivate a general fascination in ALL women, and be interested in learning more about them. Step out and meet ALL women, even the ones that are too old or too young for you, and the ones who have wedding rings. Ask them about themselves, and listen to what they say.

Don’t think about whether they would be potential marriage partners for you–that’s “self” thinking and it’s a huge turn-off for most women. Instead, be interested in women’s lives even if you know you will never see them again.

My husband, bless his heart, is not a flirt–far from it. He is in love with me and I am very blessed that we are together in marriage. But he is fascinated with women, and in restaurants, at church, at the skating rink, or anywhere, he will ask women about their lives, and they are very happy to talk with him about themselves. He’s honestly interested, not because he wants sex, or because he wants a partner, but because he thinks their lives worth learning about.

If you can cultivate this honest and innocent (not creepy) fascination with all the women you encounter–the bank teller, the cashier, the waitress, the old lady walking her dog past your house, your co-workers, etc.–I think you’ll find that women get very very interested in you. And even though you will learn about a lot of women who will never be suitable partners for you, there’s a good chance that one of them will have a female friend who IS a suitable partner for you, and she’ll be eager to introduce the two of you, and she’ll tell her friend, “This man is the most selfless man–you HAVE to meet him!”

I hope this advice is helpful to you. Good luck to you.

 

[Xantippe]

“If you can cultivate this honest and innocent (not creepy) fascination with all the women you encounter–the bank teller, the cashier, the waitress, the old lady walking her dog past your house, your co-workers, etc.–I think you’ll find that women get very very interested in you.”

Yes, yes, yes!

It’s really rare to encounter single guys who do this, whereas there are a lot of old married guys who are good at talking to women. Watch and learn.

There’s a (not unfounded) stereotype that a lot of men just talk at women and don’t listen at all. Hence the term “mansplaining.” Google that and don’t do it.

 

[Mr_Kelvin]

Thankyou for the feedback. Funny thing is, I have no problem at all making friends with older women, cause I have no romantic interest in them, and we get along fine. Yes, perhaps I am selfish, but I am also very lonely and unsure of myself, and I thought I was doing a decent job trying to give to these women, do nice things, etc. The last one told me she didn’t want to accept gifts from anyone, period. My security issue is I am stuck in a family business that is somewhat dysfunctional, and we barely make enough money to get by, but in the end we are still living under our father’s roof and he is the breadwinner when something goes wrong and we are short of cash. I am also 32 so my prime is fast passing by. In short, no woman could possibly take me seriously with my current state in life, even if I was able to walk the walk and do the talk, start dressing more professionally, find some way of winning her attention. Yes, perhaps I was hard on women for being the ones that dumped me, maybe they are inherently flawed in that way where they won’t tell a man what they are really up to, but I have no patience anymore for games.

 

[Xantippe]

“…I thought I was doing a decent job trying to give to these women, do nice things, etc. The last one told me she didn’t want to accept gifts from anyone, period.”

Sorry, that sounds creepy!

Nice women don’t accept frequent or expensive gifts from men they are not seriously involved with. Giving a lot of gifts to random women is the way to attract gold-diggers. Nice women would run away from that (you know how we’re always warned not to take candy from strangers?–same thing).

“My security issue is I am stuck in a family business that is somewhat dysfunctional, and we barely make enough money to get by, but in the end we are still living under our father’s roof and he is the breadwinner when something goes wrong and we are short of cash. I am also 32 so my prime is fast passing by.”

If the family business can’t pay you an actual wage, find a real job (no matter how low-paying) and a place of your own (no matter if it’s just a room). Even earning minimum wage and supplementing that with odd jobs, you can do better than in the family business, because it sounds like there are a lot of times when your paycheck is $0, no matter how hard you’ve worked. And knowing family businesses, I bet you have worked hard, with very little to show for it. Also, sign up for a different community college class every term until you hit something that you really enjoy and that you think has a future. And if there isn’t a community college close enough, move close enough so you can attend. (You might want to look for a living situation with an elderly or disabled person who has an extra room and needs odd jobs done.) I would also suggest listening regularly to Dave Ramsey (the personal finance guy) and perhaps calling in. The community college may also solve your girl problems, but I don’t promise that.

You are 32 years old. Your prime is fast passing by only if this is the best your life gets. Even if you got to be 40 but had three times the income, your dating prospects would be considerably better.

“In short, no woman could possibly take me seriously with my current state in life, even if I was able to walk the walk and do the talk, start dressing more professionally, find some way of winning her attention. Yes, perhaps I was hard on women for being the ones that dumped me, maybe they are inherently flawed in that way where they won’t tell a man what they are really up to, but I have no patience anymore for games.”

I agree that a prudent woman would not want to marry you right this moment, because you aren’t currently supporting yourself, let alone being able to support a wife and kids. Ask yourself, if you had a daughter, would you want her dating a guy with your current prospects? Of course not.

Best wishes!

 

[Gullveig]

Well, I fully admit that I may be a weird example of my age group and gender, but here is what I think:

I would be willing to consider marriage at my age, but I feel no obligation to rush into it. I don’t necessarily want a guy who can “protect” me or provide material support for me. I can do those things for myself, though it would be nice to know that the guy I was dating would at least attempt to get my back if something was going down. I don’t know what you mean by “manly man”, but I prefer masculine men. That is, men who do not have to emphasize their maleness out of a sense of insecurity, they simply are what they are and don’t worry about it too much. In regards to having something to offer to the relationship, the only things I want out of a guy are that he is honorable, kind, and that we have thing to talk about. If he can bring those things to the table, then that’s plenty to start from.

And, yes, you can just go up to a girl you know and say, “Hey, would you like to go to lunch with me?” Everyone gets shot down from time to time, some people a lot, before they meet someone. It’s hard to put yourself out there and get rejected, but that’s just how things are and learning how to deal with it without taking it too personally is a good life lesson.

Good luck, though. I’m sure you’ll find someone who matches up well with you, and then you’ll be like “Seriously, what did I see in all those other girls anyway? This is the real deal.”

 

[CaliLobo]

Thankyou for the feedback. Funny thing is, I have no problem at all making friends with older women, cause I have no romantic interest in them, and we get along fine. Yes, perhaps I am selfish, but I am also very lonely and unsure of myself, and I thought I was doing a decent job trying to give to these women, do nice things, etc. The last one told me she didn’t want to accept gifts from anyone, period.

I also find that my female friends tend to be those in which I have zero romantic interest in, regardless of age. It’s too difficult to be friends with women you like.
Mr Kelvin:

My security issue is I am stuck in a family business that is somewhat dysfunctional, and we barely make enough money to get by, but in the end we are still living under our father’s roof and he is the breadwinner when something goes wrong and we are short of cash. I am also 32 so my prime is fast passing by. In short, no woman could possibly take me seriously with my current state in life, even if I was able to walk the walk and do the talk, start dressing more professionally, find some way of winning her attention. Yes, perhaps I was hard on women for being the ones that dumped me, maybe they are inherently flawed in that way where they won’t tell a man what they are really up to, but I have no patience anymore for games.

I implore you, you MUST, MUST, MUST do everything in your power to move out of your parents’ house. In the non-Anglo-American world, living with one’s family is not a big deal. But in the Anglo-American world we idolize our independence (one must move out at age 18 right?), and women raise a red flag if a man lives with his parents beyond college age. Even Christian women who save sex for marriage raise this red flag.

As a Korean-American I question this aspect of Anglo-American culture, since we Koreans are family-oriented. But you have two choices: accept it, or change countries.

In addition, fathers have a tendency to talk harshly to their children “for their benefit”, but this can have the effect of bringing you down. Getting away from dad may help your self-confidence.

A year ago I was jobless, working as a volunteer, and living at home. I knew I was ineligible to date, and I was right. For example, a woman who I liked who was totally into me (an Ironwoman who’s got a rock-solid body, and an animal trainer!) changed her mind when she found out I lived at home. She accused me of messing with her mind, and got angry at me. The only success with dating while living at home was with a woman I didn’t even like, but I just wanted something, anything to break my five-year streak of nothing beyond a second date.

Since finding a job and moving out to New Mexico about a year ago I have had 4-5 women be interested in me. Unfortunately as you know, the latest breakup has been very painful. But I can still say that moving out of home has made a night-and-day difference in terms of eligibility.

But, there is one last thing you can do. If you live in an expensive city such as Los Angeles or New York, there are probably women in the same situation as you. I know many 30-something natives of LA who live at home. (Contrary to popular belief, there are millions of Los Angeles natives!) Date a woman who lives at home.

 

[Xantippe]

“In addition, fathers have a tendency to talk harshly to their children “for their benefit”, but this can have the effect of bringing you down. Getting away from dad may help your self-confidence.”

Living AND working with dad has got to be part of what’s killing the OP’s self-confidence, even if dad is a nice guy.

Make an escape plan and get out. You’ll feel better about yourself if you are getting a real (if small) pay check and eating your own ramen noodles.

 

[CaliLobo]

“In addition, fathers have a tendency to talk harshly to their children “for their benefit”, but this can have the effect of bringing you down. Getting away from dad may help your self-confidence.”

Living AND working with dad has got to be part of what’s killing the OP’s self-confidence, even if dad is a nice guy.

Make an escape plan and get out. You’ll feel better about yourself if you are getting a real (if small) pay check and eating your own ramen noodles.

Agreed. I confess there are days I don’t wanna get up and work. And there are times I miss my family, friends, and the good food, bars, and beaches of Los Angeles. But anywhere else with a job, even in this hot, dry, poor, lonely podunkville called New Mexico, is better than living with parents, even if it is LA.

 

[chevalier]

Agreed. I confess there are days I don’t wanna get up and work. And there are times I miss my family, friends, and the good food, bars, and beaches of Los Angeles. But anywhere else with a job, even in this hot, dry, poor, lonely podunkville called New Mexico, is better than living with parents, even if it is LA.

You sound so Anglo-Saxon.

 

[george92]

dude i use to be the same way. But i’m just like screw it, “i’m just going to have fun being me”. Part of this takes getting use to i know but i’m more of a go with the flow guy now. Partly cuz i’m busy with a lot of clubs that take up my time and don’t have time to dwell. For me its doing and not thinking. Hope this helps.