At times, it seems to be a matter of scale. The apocryphal story of Alexander the Great and the pirate illustrates the point nicely – one guy with a ship is called a pirate, one guy with fleets and armies is called an emperor.
Self government is the only legitimate government. If government is by anything other than by consent of the governed, it is tyrannical and unjust. So if the people of Iowa moved to Missouri, and the people of Missouri accepted them, then no harm no foul.
There is always the option to move to a country whose policies are more closely aligned with yours.
I absolutely agree with these statements. Of course, the problem is that I don’t really consent to be governed. That is- I agree with there being a local court system and some other public offices, but I don’t agree with the vast majority of activities my government engages in. So my government does NOT have my consent to engage in most of its activities. Does it make a difference? At best I’d get laughed at. At worse I’d get prison or death. That is the bind we are in.
Christ showed us the way. He showed how to get along with a tyrannical state, and he showed what happens when someone consents to being named a criminal. His goal was to show us the way, while at the same time paying our debts, thus making us free.
I absolutely agree with these statements. Of course, the problem is that I don’t really consent to be governed. That is- I agree with there being a local court system and some other public offices, but I don’t agree with the vast majority of activities my government engages in. So my government does NOT have my consent to engage in most of its activities. Does it make a difference? At best I’d get laughed at. At worse I’d get prison or death. That is the bind we are in.
It doesn’t really matter where you go, someone will assert that they control the ground you’re standing on. The obvious thing to do is live in a Christian and charitable way to the best of our ability and remember that life here isn’t permanent.
People have become bond servants indentured to the State through Social Security. It’s completely by voluntary compliance, so it’s entirely lawful and constitutional.
If Iowa takes over Missouri for the purpose of domination and subjects Missouri to an evil tyrannical form of government then that would not be just.
Exactly. It seems impossible for man to live peacefully within his community without some “authority” or another claiming they have some claim over your property or even your life. Keep in mind, I am not advocating anarchy or the lack of government. I am glad for the rule of moral law, but governments usually go far beyond that.
Always. I still struggle with the balance. There is so much that Jesus didn’t tell us and so much confusion and change in the world today.
I hear you. I’m glad some people on this forum are aware of these things. I was really starting to doubt the awareness of my Catholic brothers.
Is it voluntary when a child gets a social security number and when he gets his first job the government starts taking away his money to put into this illusion of a fund? I want nothing to do with this. I would much rather give this money to the church and have her help others with it. But again, I am not asked for my opinion and am not given a choice not to participate. Yes, “people” did goof when they voted in the welfare state, but I wouldn’t be so quick to name it Constitutional or voluntary.
At what point do we get named criminals though? Where do we draw the line? When do we go along with a tyrannical system and when do we decide that it is a violation of conscious and we can go no further?
Well, thats because the US is FAR from being a ‘just Govt’.
I absolutely agree with these statements. Of course, the problem is that I don’t really consent to be governed. That is- I agree with there being a local court system and some other public offices, but I don’t agree with the vast majority of activities my government engages in. So my government does NOT have my consent to engage in most of its activities. Does it make a difference? At best I’d get laughed at. At worse I’d get prison or death. That is the bind we are in.
When a child turns 18 he has 30 days to opt out, but no one ever does. And either you or your parent had to apply for benefits. It’s absolutely voluntary, and it’s constitutional because of that. It’s like joining the army. You’re free until they tell you to take that step forward. Then you’re no longer free, until your obligation is made good. Same thing when you asked for the number.
It’s all right there in the Scriptures.
I have no doubt of that.
Agreed.
You can’t really say its by consent if you are not informed of your rights at any time! Besides, I’ve never agreed with the whole idea of 'tacit consent". Did you know you just tacitly consented to paying my bills for life? You had a chance to object, but I guess that ship sailed! Nobody can realistically take this seriously, except those who simply want an excuse to put you into bondage.
Well now you’re making a case for alleging constructive fraud. I can’t say I disagree. It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but nearly everyone has gone into bondage voluntarily. But the good news really is the Good News: we have been redeemed! Christ showed us the way out, which is forgiveness.
Well, don’t count me as one of them. I would be happy to do without the government “extras” and “goodies” for my money (and freedom).
Yes, I think he is the only one who can redeem us. Let’s hope we can be good Christians till the day of reckoning.
Please don’t misunderstand. I hope you don’t think I was accusing or pontificating. I am passionate about my views, but I mean no disrespect.
Not at all. I think we generally agree. I’m just unhappy with the bind we find ourselves in. We have been on the wrong path for a long time now and we are going to have to pay for our recent ancestors’ mistakes. Though we can make some human progress on our own, I actually think we will ultimately need a divine miracle.