How does one respond?

[Lost_Sheep]

You tell someone that you strive to be a good Catholic by following the teachings of scripture, and then a person attempts to discredit your faith with stuff like this:

Do you believe that all homosexuals should be put to death?(Leviticus 20:13, and the surrounding passages, suggests - that if two men have sex, they should be put to death.)

Do you suggest that if a general wants the wife of a soldier under his command, it’s fine to send the soldier to his death so that he can marry the soldier’s widow? (I’m sure you recognize that story.)

Do you eat meat on Fridays?

Do you do any work on Sunday?

When is the last time that you made a burnt offering in your church? (Leviticus 1: 1-17).

When did you last make a grain offering? (Leviticus 2: 1-16).

Do you eat any animal fat? (Leviticus 3:17)

Have you ever touched a woman on her menses (who is, by Leviticus law, unclean), and if so, did you ritually cleanse yourself? (Leviticus 15:19).

Have you taken your sister’s wife as a rival wife while your wife is living? (Leviticus 18:18).

Do you sequester your wife for seven days once a month? Leviticus 20:13

You may not plant more than one kind of seed in your garden at a time, and you may not wear any clothing that is a blend of two or more materials (Leviticus 19:19).

Do not clip your hair at the edges of your head or clip your beard (Leviticus 19:27.)

Tattoos are not permitted (Leviticus 19:28).

Would a “Christian” woman abide by the following?:

“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” (I Corinthians 11:3)

“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.” (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (I Timothy 2:11-12)

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.” (Ephesians 5:22-24)

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

“…thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” (Genesis 3:16)

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.” (Col. 3:18)

“Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.” (1 Peter 3:4-6)

You get the idea.

How does a person respond to this without sounding like a “Cafeteria Catholic”?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Matters of non-faith or morals fall under the umbrella of immutable teaching, such as thou shalt not murder, etc… The skeptic is citing a lot of OT pastoral laws, such as what to eat when, which were fulfilled in Christ and point to truths in the NT. We read the text as a Christian reads it, not as a flippant skeptic.

As to wives and husbands, they have a different understanding of what “submit” means. They have ini their mind that submit means “do everything he tells you to do like a slave.” It doesn’t. I once heard a wife describe it as getting out of the way while God leads her husband. Plus, the husband has to give his life for the wife, which is quite a submission in itself. The complementarity works if both bring their gifts to the relationship.

 

[HillbillyHermit]

Is the person asking all this stuff at once? I’ve encountered a few like that, and call 'em machine gun questions. They rattle a bunch off, and usually have no interest in your answer. The only thing they seem to be interested in is getting their point across or attacking your beliefs. I’ve had similar experiences with non-Catholics and atheists/agnostics. Usually the only way to deal with people acting like that is to walk away, especially if they seem hostile.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Is the person asking all this stuff at once? I’ve encountered a few like that, and call 'em machine gun questions. They rattle a bunch off, and usually have no interest in your answer. The only thing they seem to be interested in is getting their point across or attacking your beliefs. I’ve had similar experiences with non-Catholics and atheists/agnostics. Usually the only way to deal with people acting like that is to walk away, especially if they seem hostile.

Yes, that is generally the idea in this case.

 

[Julia_Mae]

How does a person respond to this without sounding like a “Cafeteria Catholic”?

You say, “My Lord and my God told me to love others as He did. That’s what I try to do. I’m not that good at it.”

Oh, and then walk away because this is standard atheist bait-the-Christian fare and not a serious inquiry of any kind.

 

[Gorgias]

You tell someone that you strive to be a good Catholic by following the teachings of scripture, and then a person attempts to discredit your faith with stuff like this:

Well, just for fun, let’s look at the general classes of errors these assertions make:

Do you believe that all homosexuals should be put to death?(Leviticus 20:13, and the surrounding passages, suggests - that if two men have sex, they should be put to death.)

Do you eat any animal fat? (Leviticus 3:17)

Have you ever touched a woman on her menses (who is, by Leviticus law, unclean), and if so, did you ritually cleanse yourself? (Leviticus 15:19).

Have you taken your sister’s wife as a rival wife while your wife is living? (Leviticus 18:18).

Do you sequester your wife for seven days once a month? Leviticus 20:13

You may not plant more than one kind of seed in your garden at a time, and you may not wear any clothing that is a blend of two or more materials (Leviticus 19:19).

Do not clip your hair at the edges of your head or clip your beard (Leviticus 19:27.)

Tattoos are not permitted (Leviticus 19:28).

These are prescriptions of the Mosaic law. We aren’t held to them. There’s nothing here that a “good Catholic, following the Scripture” need to concern themselves with.

When is the last time that you made a burnt offering in your church? (Leviticus 1: 1-17).

When did you last make a grain offering? (Leviticus 2: 1-16).

Levitical requirements for temple worship. Irrelevant to Christians. (Jews don’t do this, either – because there is no temple!)

Do you suggest that if a general wants the wife of a soldier under his command, it’s fine to send the soldier to his death so that he can marry the soldier’s widow? (I’m sure you recognize that story.)

He needs to read Scripture more closely. God wasn’t particularly thrilled with David about this one, either.

Do you eat meat on Fridays?

Umm… not Scriptural. And, it speaks to the Church’s ability to set appropriate discipline for Catholics. If you asked a teen if he drinks alcohol, you would hope for a particular answer. If you asked him again when he was 40, would you expect that the answer would necessarily have to be the same?

 

[Iron_Donkey]

You tell someone that you strive to be a good Catholic by following the teachings of scripture, and then a person attempts to discredit your faith with stuff like this:

You get the idea.

How does a person respond to this without sounding like a “Cafeteria Catholic”?

Smack em upside the head with a Catechism a few times, then say “I am happy to discuss my actual faith with you, but I refuse to discuss a caricature.”

Or something like that. Maybe pick a paperback or otherwise slim/light volume edition of the Catechism. You know, to be charitable.

 

[HillbillyHermit]

Smack em upside the head with a Catechism a few times, then say “I am happy to discuss my actual faith with you, but I refuse to discuss a caricature.”

Or something like that. Maybe pick a paperback or otherwise slim/light volume edition of the Catechism. You know, to be charitable.

I’d go with a hard cover, extra large print Bible. You know, one o’ those family heirloom ones that make your legs fall asleep if you try to rest it on your lap and read it for more than 15 minutes. Then use the Catechism, 'cause we don’t rely on Scripture alone. :bluelite:

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Oh, and then walk away because this is standard atheist bait-the-Christian fare and not a serious inquiry of any kind.

Yes, but then they will think they won the argument. That doesn’t well with me.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Yes, but then they will think they won the argument. That doesn’t well with me.

I don’t want to tell you what is best for you, but you can’t measure the validity of your beliefs based on someone else conceding they were wrong. If you are confident in your answers, you don’t need their concession to confirm it for you. You can only lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink, and all that. Like Titus 3:10 says, answer a divisive person once or twice, but if they continue to be defiant and ignoring your points, you need to walk away.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Matters of non-faith or morals fall under the umbrella of immutable teaching, such as thou shalt not murder, etc… The skeptic is citing a lot of OT pastoral laws, such as what to eat when, which were fulfilled in Christ and point to truths in the NT. We read the text as a Christian reads it, not as a flippant skeptic.

As to wives and husbands, they have a different understanding of what “submit” means. They have ini their mind that submit means “do everything he tells you to do like a slave.” It doesn’t. I once heard a wife describe it as getting out of the way while God leads her husband. Plus, the husband has to give his life for the wife, which is quite a submission in itself. The complementarity works if both bring their gifts to the relationship.

Great post, especially the part about the husbands and wives!

 

[aragonjohn1]

if they recomend a book that sounds heretical/wrong tell them that you have already found you’re saviour and they might need to find theirs.

if after this they insist on debating/discussing bullet points use something similar

to either of these sites for sources

• scripturecatholic.com/index.html
• philvaz.com/apologetics/
• philvaz.com/apologetics/apolog.htm
• ourcatholicfaith.org/reasons.html
• catholic.com/magazine/articles/every-word-that-proceeds-from-the-mouth-of-god

after this at least in my experience they just leave making a complaint similar to “you know too much about my belief/faith/ideals/paridgm i am not talking to you anymore”
hopefully if this happens you have planted a seed of God’s love or curiosity in their hearts

if they continue keep on debunking/disproving them but, continue to be respectful and if you can do you’re best to keep to one arguement then you should be good.

hope this helps

Shalom
God Bless

 

[RoseMary131]

You tell someone that you strive to be a good Catholic by following the teachings of scripture, and then a person attempts to discredit your faith with stuff like this:

Yes, but then they will think they won the argument. That doesn’t well with me.

Lost Sheep, You don’t need to worry about answers if someone is only attempting to discredit your faith. It is your faith, not their faith. Don’t let him lead you astray.

If he wants to learn, then help him find the answers. If he wants to pull you away from your faith, stand firm to his temptation.

As for “winning” the argument, that’s the tough one. We share our faith with humility. We have to remember not to try to win for our own pride.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

As for “winning” the argument, that’s the tough one. We share our faith with humility. We have to remember not to try to win for our own pride.

I know that winning a petty argument with a non or different-believer is of no consequence in the long run and does not have any effect on my faith; it’s just that I like to see people like this get their come-uppance every now and then and it is so much sweeter when I do the, uh, come-upping.

 

[JRKH]

You tell someone that you strive to be a good Catholic by following the teachings of scripture, and then a person attempts to discredit your faith with stuff like this:

You get the idea.

How does a person respond to this without sounding like a “Cafeteria Catholic”?

Well - first off I would not say that I strive to be a good Catholic by following the teachings of scripture but if a person begins to bring up OT requirements etc. I would simply refer them to the Council recorded in Acts 15…You know…The one that set aside all of that OT law stuff…Case closed…

Peace
James

 

[Julia_Mae]

Yes, but then they will think they won the argument. That doesn’t well with me.

They won the argument as soon as you said this:

You tell someone that you strive to be a good Catholic by following the teachings of scripture…

That’s not what we do.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Great post, especially the part about the husbands and wives!

Thx, although I must credit brilliant, coherent Church teaching for teaching me my answer.

 

[aragonjohn1]

Thx, although I must credit brilliant, coherent Church teaching for teaching me my answer.

goood, goooood…



thank you

Shalom
God Bless

 

[trogiah]

A good Catholic, like any good Christian, is one who follows the teachings of Jesus. Doing that presumes a knowledge and understanding of the teachings of Jesus. Jesus clarified and prioritized many teachings that are found in earlier scriptures. And he outright repudiated some of them. The questions you suggest might be thrown out at a person who claims to be a good Catholic are questions that reveal an incomplete or possibly incorrect understanding of the teachings of Jesus. There is no simple sound-bite friendly way to answer all those questions - except to say "I try to follow the teachings of Jesus as best I can.

 

[JRKH]

I know that winning a petty argument with a non or different-believer is of no consequence in the long run and does not have any effect on my faith;** it’s just that I like to see people like this get their come-uppance every now and then and it is so much sweeter when I do the, uh, come-upping.**

This is understandable, but I would suggest to you that it is also a problem…One that can be a hindrance to your ultimate goal(s).
The above indicates a desire to win, but not necessarily for the right reason. “Get their come-uppance” indicates a desire to see them embarrassed, put down, “beaten” in some way. Your desire to be the one that does this seems to indicate something less than charitable in your intent.

If, as you say, you follow Christ by following the Scriptures, then your desire needs to be to “call the sinner” not to punish them, to change the heart not harden it. There needs to be a willingness, indeed a strength, to be able to absorb such jibes for the sake of the kingdom and be unmoved from your position of agape love for this other person.
If you are able to do this, you will be better equipped to here the Spirit tell you what to say…Or to simply remain silent.

Sadly - I have often been in your shoes and had a difficult time dealing with these things. So I can certainly understand your frustration.
I like to think I have grown in this (a little? ) and hope that what I have written will be taken in a spirit of brotherly love and not criticism.

Peace
James