How does the Holy Spirit knock someone out?

[Bonnie]

If that were true, why would these people be screaming “Praise Jesus Praise Jesus”, if the enemy was behind it, I doubt he would encourage people to say things like that, plus it makes them that much more devout in their faith, they follow the bible more strictly, they bring more people to the faith, etc…this does not sound like things Satan would like.

I can see why Satan would promote it - it makes people look crazy & turns others off. After I quit going to the Pentecostal church, I met someone who told me that he & friends would go to the evening services. They would sit in the balcony, drink their wine, and “enjoy the show.” They laughed at the people who were shouting, swaying, dancing, being “slain in the spirit,” and so on. They were not edified, nor were they converted.

Some years later, after my conversion, I ran into him. He still wanted nothing to do with Christianity.

 

[boomerang]

If that were true, why would these people be screaming “Praise Jesus Praise Jesus”, if the enemy was behind it, I doubt he would encourage people to say things like that, plus it makes them that much more devout in their faith, they follow the bible more strictly, they bring more people to the faith, etc…this does not sound like things Satan would like.

Apparently, the devil appeared at Lourdes with copycat apparitions of “Mary” that were just as unseemly as these dancing, giddy, laughing, convulsing, “slain in the spirit” folks. I can’t imagine the Holy Spirit would make people act like morons. It’s counter-productive to evangelization.

 

[ccmcmg]

And are they acting like they’re cheering their favorite sports team or at a dance? If so, my reply stands. Years ago I went to a couple of Catholic Charismatic meetings & they were quite sedate, unlike the Protestant church services I used to attend.

Well, you won’t want to attend the one I attend. While it’s not a ‘rave’ or ‘sports event’, the Spirit is strong, and at times, even with my eyes closed and down, I cannot help my hands and arms as they raise up in prayer or praise to our Lord and Savior.

Real life experience:

I have had a closer ‘relationship’ with the Holy Spirit at times in my life. However, having been away from the Faith for many years, and having returned 11 months prior, I went to a (Catholic) charismatic prayer meeting one Sunday afternoon. I asked for the group to pray over/with me to the Holy Spirit, about receiving the Gifts that He had for me. I began by standing (no one touching me) while holding onto a chair in front of me. It wasn’t long before I was on my knees and near the ground as He consumed my soul and being, as He Desired.

No one was touching me, nor suggesting that I go to my knees. I wasn’t being hypnotized (I’ve done hypnosis before; this wasn’t it). I was so weak in myself, and so strong in the Spirit, that I had no choice but to ‘melt’ to the floor. I hadn’t ever watched the services on the religious channels, nor had I seen it happen at the one Charismatic Mass I attended. The prayers were asking for His Will to be revealed to me.

I know it was real; I know it was God, not me. Sure, some people do it simply by power of suggestion, or peer pressure, but for many, it is real.

 

[Beautiful]

I don’t put much faith in these experiences; I think they are often driven by mass suggestion.

When someone is leaned into and their body then topples like a tree, that’s not spiritual, that’s just gravity.

Unlike speaking in tongues, this practice is not found per se in Scripture.

ICXC NIKA.

It isn’t like that at a catholic charismatic Mass. I’ve been to enough to recognize something greater than suggestion or gravity is happening.

My question

What about the people who are not so apparently slain in the Holy Spirit?

Do they feel abandoned or condemned? Are they abandoned or condemned?

 

[ccmcmg]

It isn’t like that at a catholic charismatic Mass. I’ve been to enough to recognize something greater than suggestion or gravity is happening.

My question

What about the people who are not so apparently slain in the Holy Spirit?

Do they feel abandoned or condemned? Are they abandoned or condemned?

Before I received the gift of praying in tongues, I enjoyed the Charismatic Mass just the same. It was still inspiring to ‘see’ and feel the Spirit in my own way. I never felt left out. I just let the Spirit embrace me in my own way. It does take some maturity and understanding to let it happen as God wants, whether it’s being ‘slain’ in the Spirit as you say, or filled with inner calm or joy or peace, whatever He is giving you. They aren’t abandoned OR condemned, nor should they feel that way. We should not be jealous of the gifts of others.

 

[Beautiful]

Before I received the gift of praying in tongues, I enjoyed the Charismatic Mass just the same. It was still inspiring to ‘see’ and feel the Spirit in my own way. I never felt left out. I just let the Spirit embrace me in my own way. It does take some maturity and understanding to let it happen as God wants, whether it’s being ‘slain’ in the Spirit as you say, or filled with inner calm or joy or peace, whatever He is giving you. They aren’t abandoned OR condemned, nor should they feel that way. We should not be jealous of the gifts of others.

The point is that various gifts of the Holy Spirit, especially the one questioned by the OP, can be misunderstood. This is not about jealously but rather misunderstanding.

Gifts of the Holy Spirit abound! Being slain in the Holy Spirit is a bit different and requires some measure of guidance/information that the Church rarely affords.

And I don’t believe maturity has anything to do with the movement of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit goes where and when it wills without regard to the maturity level of an individual. I have seen all age groups go down.

 

[Dorothy]

Well, you won’t want to attend the one I attend. While it’s not a ‘rave’ or ‘sports event’, the Spirit is strong, and at times, even with my eyes closed and down, I cannot help my hands and arms as they raise up in prayer or praise to our Lord and Savior.

Real life experience:

I have had a closer ‘relationship’ with the Holy Spirit at times in my life. However, having been away from the Faith for many years, and having returned 11 months prior, I went to a (Catholic) charismatic prayer meeting one Sunday afternoon. I asked for the group to pray over/with me to the Holy Spirit, about receiving the Gifts that He had for me. I began by standing (no one touching me) while holding onto a chair in front of me. It wasn’t long before I was on my knees and near the ground as He consumed my soul and being, as He Desired.

No one was touching me, nor suggesting that I go to my knees. I wasn’t being hypnotized (I’ve done hypnosis before; this wasn’t it). I was so weak in myself, and so strong in the Spirit, that I had no choice but to ‘melt’ to the floor. I hadn’t ever watched the services on the religious channels, nor had I seen it happen at the one Charismatic Mass I attended. The prayers were asking for His Will to be revealed to me.

I know it was real; I know it was God, not me. Sure, some people do it simply by power of suggestion, or peer pressure, but for many, it is real.

Your last sentence says it all “but for many, it is real”.

 

[Dorothy]

It isn’t like that at a catholic charismatic Mass. I’ve been to enough to recognize something greater than suggestion or gravity is happening.

My question

What about the people who are not so apparently slain in the Holy Spirit? ������

Do they feel abandoned or condemned? Are they abandoned or condemned?

Everyone reacts differently. If some do not fall down it doesn’t mean they were abandoned or condemned.

 

[thistle]

The Holy Spirit doesn’t knock anyone out. It’s a matter of expectations - you expect to be “knocked out,” you will. I spent part of my teen years in such a church and never again will I let a person have that much control over me.

Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, either.

 

[GEddie]

The point is that various gifts of the Holy Spirit, especially the one questioned by the OP, can be misunderstood. This is not about jealously but rather misunderstanding.

Gifts of the Holy Spirit abound! Being slain in the Holy Spirit is a bit different and requires some measure of guidance/information that the Church rarely affords.

And I don’t believe maturity has anything to do with the movement of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit goes where and when it wills without regard to the maturity level of an individual. I have seen all age groups go down.

Conceded, however,age is not per se determinant of spiritual maturity.

ICXC NIKA

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Before I received the gift of praying in tongues, I enjoyed the Charismatic Mass just the same. It was still inspiring to ‘see’ and feel the Spirit in my own way. I never felt left out. I just let the Spirit embrace me in my own way. It does take some maturity and understanding to let it happen as God wants, whether it’s being ‘slain’ in the Spirit as you say, or filled with inner calm or joy or peace, whatever He is giving you. They aren’t abandoned OR condemned, nor should they feel that way. We should not be jealous of the gifts of others.

I used to attend some Pentecostal services that are like how you described. It didn’t dawn on me as an adult just how bad this sort of thing is for children until I saw two of the adults of the congregation thrust - as in holding on to their squirming protesting child out towards the preacher- their 7 year old, 8 year old children in front of the preacher to receive “The Holy Spirit” . The children struggled and wanted to hide under the arms of the parent. Their faces contorted to a vision of dread one started to cry out. The adults had smiles on their faces, thinking it was ‘cute’ or funny. I saw on those poor children’s faces extreme terror and the dire need for someone, ANYONE to protect them from what was going on. They were confused and distressed and most of all frightened. They did not want to be there and I certainly believe they had no idea what all the crazy behavior was about and it DISTURBED them… and rightly so. It was then I realized just how HARMFUL this sort of thing is to the spiritual minds of the youth.** I never went back. ** I wonder about the spiritual lives and beliefs of those children now. How this could be just as damaging to a healthy faith (and subsequently their psychological make up) as if they had been sexually molested.

I don’t really care how anyone would say this is liberating or ‘good’… it is WRONG if it upsets a child like that. I can’t see JESUS doing this or allowing it. He says let the children come to me, not force me on your children!

And frankly, when I put all of the behaviors going on at these things in the perspective of how I might look at it as when I was a child it blew out any belief I had in it, realizing it does NO GOOD and cannot be holy. What I *COULD *believe is if the Holy Spirit worked this way only when no small children - or people who were unbelievers - were present. The only people whom it seems to benefit are believers, and this contradicts Scripture which says these types of things are for the unbelievers. I have taken MANY YEARS to understand what I experienced those years I really searched for God and what I can tell you is that something may be there, but you can’t prove to me that its “The Holy Spirit”. Don’t tell me to take it in faith either… any con person can say that, and they do.

 

[GEddie]

I just don’t find anything in Scripture, or in Church teaching, to link the Spirit to loss of consciousness. Full stop, as far as I am concerned.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Bonnie]

And frankly, when I put all of the behaviors going on at these things in the perspective of how I might look at it as when I was a child it blew out any belief I had in it, realizing it does NO GOOD and cannot be holy. What I COULD believe is if the Holy Spirit worked this way only when no small children - or people who were unbelievers - were present. The only people whom it seems to benefit are believers, and this contradicts Scripture which says these types of things are for the unbelievers. I have taken MANY YEARS to understand what I experienced those years I really searched for God and what I can tell you is that something may be there, but you can’t prove to me that its “The Holy Spirit”. ** Don’t tell me to take it in faith either… any con person can say that, and they do.

I agree, and especially with your last sentence. Does anyone here remember Marjoe Gortner? He was a child preacher groomed by his parents - he grew up to be a total fraud. You don’t have to take my word for it - he said as much in his autobiography. He spent a few days (perhaps longer) at our church preaching a revival. I didn’t like him & couldn’t figure out why all the adults were gaga over him. I felt vindicated when he went public about his being a religious con artist.

There were a few other frauds in that church who weren’t famous. It’s easy to take in people who mistake enthusiasm & excitement for faith.

Added - I just looked up Marjoe on Wikipedia & I think his revival at our church must have been one of his last. I think it was around 1968 or even '69.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I just don’t find anything in Scripture, or in Church teaching, to link the Spirit to loss of consciousness. Full stop, as far as I am concerned.

ICXC NIKA.

Agree, though maybe it can be argued St. Paul lost conscienceness when he met the Lord?

Anyway, just to clear up what I mean in my last post by " The only people whom it seems to benefit are believers, and this contradicts Scripture which says these types of things are for the unbelievers. " … The scripture that I talk about is found in :

1 Corinthians 14:22

Prophecy and Tongues
…21In the Law it is written, “BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME,” says the Lord. 22So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. 23Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

 

[Jon_Mallory]

Slain in the Spirit? Baptized in the Spirit? These are terms foreign to Catholic theology. Also, why is there an emphasis on having a specific relationship with the Spirit without any reference to the Trinity? During Mass, we say Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Spirit. We don’t reverence One person at the exclusion of the others. My concern with the charismatic movement is that it seems to depart from liturgical worship. Why can’t Christians experience a relationship with God within the context of liturgy? Also, it worries me that one particular group of Catholics prefers to worship in one way and another group in another way.That seems to indicate a splintering of unity to me. We should all worship in one way so as not to exclude our brothers and sisters.

 The genesis of the Charismatic Catholic movement began when some professors at Dusquene University read one of Dave wilkinson's books. I also read one of his books on the end times and he credits the Charismatic movement for bringing Catholics to Christ despite their Roman Catholicism. He treats the two as mutually opposes and prophesies that Rome will persecute Charismatic Catholics one day. From the get go, it seems obvious that the Protestant proponents of the Charismatic movement in Catholicism are anti-Catholic. How is it appropriate to use their theological terminology and make it ours when such terminology is rooted in an anti-catholic tradition?

Don’t get me wrong, I am all for charisms but only as they have been understood through the lenses of Tradition.

 

[ccmcmg]

The Holy Spirit doesn’t knock anyone out. It’s a matter of expectations - you expect to be “knocked out,” you will. I spent part of my teen years in such a church and never again will I let a person have that much control over me.

Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, either.

That church wasn’t the Catholic Church or the Charismatic movement, was it? At NO POINT, does any person have any control over anyone else in the CCM; God does, especially through the Holy Spirit.

I used to attend some Pentecostal services that are like how you described. It didn’t dawn on me as an adult just how bad this sort of thing is for children until I saw two of the adults of the congregation thrust - as in holding on to their squirming protesting child out towards the preacher- their 7 year old, 8 year old children in front of the preacher to receive “The Holy Spirit” . The children struggled and wanted to hide under the arms of the parent. Their faces contorted to a vision of dread one started to cry out. The adults had smiles on their faces, thinking it was ‘cute’ or funny. I saw on those poor children’s faces extreme terror and the dire need for someone, ANYONE to protect them from what was going on. They were confused and distressed and most of all frightened. They did not want to be there and I certainly believe they had no idea what all the crazy behavior was about and it DISTURBED them… and rightly so. It was then I realized just how HARMFUL this sort of thing is to the spiritual minds of the youth.** I never went back. ** I wonder about the spiritual lives and beliefs of those children now. How this could be just as damaging to a healthy faith (and subsequently their psychological make up) as if they had been sexually molested.

I don’t really care how anyone would say this is liberating or ‘good’… it is WRONG if it upsets a child like that. I can’t see JESUS doing this or allowing it. He says let the children come to me, not force me on your children!

And frankly, when I put all of the behaviors going on at these things in the perspective of how I might look at it as when I was a child it blew out any belief I had in it, realizing it does NO GOOD and cannot be holy. What I *COULD *believe is if the Holy Spirit worked this way only when no small children - or people who were unbelievers - were present. The only people whom it seems to benefit are believers, and this contradicts Scripture which says these types of things are for the unbelievers. I have taken MANY YEARS to understand what I experienced those years I really searched for God and what I can tell you is that something may be there, but you can’t prove to me that its “The Holy Spirit”. Don’t tell me to take it in faith either… any con person can say that, and they do.

This Pentecostal experience you described is NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, like the Catholic Charismatic Movement. Do not compare the two. I’m sorry that was your experience.

On a complete side note, and not related to any quotes above, I have to wonder why the animosity and attacks on a valid and approved part of the Catholic Church. Is it fear? Lack of information or knowledge? Before someone attacks the CCM, ask yourself that. What is it?

 

[Bonnie]

That church wasn’t the Catholic Church or the Charismatic movement, was it? At NO POINT, does any person have any control over anyone else in the CCM; God does, especially through the Holy Spirit.

There used to be a Charismatic Catholic priest who pushed people. He tried to push me - I pushed back. Later met another person who had the same experience with the same priest. Trying to push someone to make them be “slain in the spirit” sounds like control to me. If you read about Marjoe Gortner’s experience, it’s pretty easy to get people excited enough to fall over - that includes Catholics, Protestants, and those with no religion.

That Catholic priest was, at the time, well known. I wasn’t impressed & haven’t heard anything about him in years.

On a complete side note, and not related to any quotes above, I have to wonder why the animosity and attacks on a valid and approved part of the Catholic Church. Is it fear? Lack of information or knowledge? Before someone attacks the CCM, ask yourself that. What is it?

If the Catholic Charismatic Movement (is that what the M stands for?) were a normal part of the Catholic experience, then it would be present in all parishes and we would all be doing it. It’s a very small subset of the Catholic Church.

 

[ccmcmg]

There used to be a Charismatic Catholic priest who pushed people. He tried to push me - I pushed back. Later met another person who had the same experience with the same priest. Trying to push someone to make them be “slain in the spirit” sounds like control to me. If you read about Marjoe Gortner’s experience, it’s pretty easy to get people excited enough to fall over - that includes Catholics, Protestants, and those with no religion.

That Catholic priest was, at the time, well known. I wasn’t impressed & haven’t heard anything about him in years.

If the Catholic Charismatic Movement (is that what the M stands for?) were a normal part of the Catholic experience, then it would be present in all parishes and we would all be doing it. It’s a very small subset of the Catholic Church.

Well, I’ve never seen or heard of such a thing; it’s not as widespread then, as some might think.

No one is saying that anyone is required to be Charismatic. There are many ‘movements’ that aren’t present in all parishes. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t legitmate. Small doesnt’ mean it isn’t real. Again, the Church Herself has approved the CCM. The Church speaks with authority, given to Her by God. I’ll take their approval over any layman’s approval, or disproval.

 

[Bonnie]

Well, I’ve never seen or heard of such a thing; it’s not as widespread then, as some might think.

Sorry - I’m not sure what part of my post you’re referring to.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

There used to be a Charismatic Catholic priest who pushed people. He tried to push me - I pushed back. Later met another person who had the same experience with the same priest. Trying to push someone to make them be “slain in the spirit” sounds like control to me. If you read about Marjoe Gortner’s experience, it’s pretty easy to get people excited enough to fall over - that includes Catholics, Protestants, and those with no religion.

That Catholic priest was, at the time, well known. I wasn’t impressed & haven’t heard anything about him in years.

I’ve been prayed over many times, by different people and I’ve never been pushed but I’ve rested in the Spirit, but only when I yielded to the Spirit. The first time I was prayed over after a Charismatic Mass, waiting for the priest to get to me, I actually prayed, “don’t let me go down, don’t let me go down.” I didn’t.

If the Catholic Charismatic Movement (is that what the M stands for?) were a normal part of the Catholic experience, then it would be present in all parishes and we would all be doing it. It’s a very small subset of the Catholic Church.

Are other movements in the Church available and active at every parish? When I lived in a metro area, I had to visit several parishes or homes for the different groups: Focolare, Legion of Mary, Opus Dei, Third order or lay associations. And just as with all of these and others, like Cursillo, not everyone is called to be in a Charismatic group. I’d be willing to bet most Catholics haven’t even heard of any of these.

ETA: I forgot to finish my thought: I live in a rural area and only Cursillo is active here; I didn’t even list all the associations and lay groups that are approved by the Church. Does that mean that Legion of Mary or the others aren’t normal or authentic?