How does your parish/RCIA program deal with the problem of cohabitation among candidates/catechumens?

[PJM]

=anp1215;10063652]These days, I am pretty sure everyone knows or is related to someone who cohabits outside of marriage. I can’t imagine that there is one parish/RCIA program in the country that is not faced with this issue. So, how do you deal with it at your parish?

I’m a volunteer sponsor at my parish, and I’m not really sure how it is dealt with here. Obviously it’s a delicate situation. We had four baptisms yesterday (praise the Lord!) and two of the catechumens are engaged to their sponsors, with whom they are cohabiting. I don’t know this from “hearsay” or being nosy, I just know because they have told the rest of the group during group sharing. One of the weddings is several months away, so it doesn’t seem to be a big rush. I guess it’s possible that upon joining RCIA, they started sleeping separately in their house or whatever.

So, what do you do in your parish when a candidate or catechumen is cohabiting? Do you allow the partner/fiance/girlfriend/boyfriend to be the sponsor? Do you stipulate separation?

I’m not saying there are easy answers or that I would do things differently, just wondering how other RCIA programs do this. I think it’s often easier to just “look away” unfortunately.

THIS IS A GRAVE MATTER THAT MUST BE DISCUSSED WITH YOUR PASTOR, OR DRE.

NO THEY CANNOT BE THE SPONCER.

WHAT EVER IS DONE; KEEP IT PRIVATE AND PERSONAL SO AS TO NOT CAUSE EMBARRASEMENT . BUT THEY ARE GIVING A VERY BAD EXAMPLE AND MORTAL SIN. SO ACTION MUST BE TAKEN.

I only encounterd this once in the 3 years that I co-taught RCIA. We took them aside and explained the position of the CC and WHY it HAD to stop in order to come into the Church. The priest guiding us was aware of our action before hand.

 

[anp1215]

Regarding how an RCIA director should “handle” a cohabitation situation-- they don’t. This is the purview of the pastor.

Maybe that’s the way it should be, but in some parishes the pastor leaves a lot of these things up to an RCIA director.

 

[HB11]

I was sponsor for my husband. I guess because we are married for quite some time nothing was said. I went with him to RCIA because I am a revert after 30 something yearsbut we did get married in the Church.

Right, I know it’s just the mom/dad who definitely can’t be the sponsor. I know that it does vary place to place. I know that in a nearby parish, I think they flat-out say no wife/husband/significant other period. I get the reasoning, but think that’s a bit extreme. I think if a spouse is a faithful practicing Catholic and married in the Church, they can be a great sponsor. If my husband converts, I know I would be the best sponsor for him. He would obviously feel more comfortable talking to me and we could go to class and Mass together all the time.
But I do think the no boyfriend/girlfriend rule is better. Those relationships aren’t as stable usually.

I wonder, since Canon Law stipulates that only the mother and father shouldn’t be a sponsor, does this mean that if a parish tries to “force” someone to choose someone else besides a wife/husband, that that parish is violating their rights under Canon Law? Purely hypothetical.

The method you describe is great. I like your approach.

 

[anp1215]

I was sponsor for my husband. I guess because we are married for quite some time nothing was said. I went with him to RCIA because I am a revert after 30 something yearsbut we did get married in the Church.

That’s good. No problems with that.

 

[OneDayASaint]

Based on a few other responses I’m pretty sure I misread the OP but based on some other responses I would like to add something.

My Grandmother was my sponsor so I didn’t have any problems there.

I was co-habitating when I went through the program. The director of the adult faith formation told me and my boyfriend that we would be expected to live as brother and sister if we were to continue living together. I’m glad I was able to go through RCIA and become a confirmed Catholic. If the Church had turned me away I still wouldn’t be Catholic because I’m not in the position to leave for several reasons. We intend to get married soon, of course. My boyfriend was confirmed very young and lost interest in it a long time ago. But since RCIA and after I have continued to educate myself on the faith and I’ve rekindled an interest in him as well. He goes to confession and mass again. We listen to talks on not just chastity but a wide variety of other things to become better Catholics. I have a Baptist friend wants to go through the RCIA program now as well.

I understand that premarital sex is a mortal sin. I would never participate in communion if I had committed that sin without confessing to a priest. I wouldn’t confess to a priest if I wasn’t contrite. I don’t take communion after a confession for ANY sin either until I’ve made reparations. I also understand the importance of not being an occasion for sin. When I change clothes or take a shower I ask myself how would I handle it if it were my brother in the apartment with me? I have to look at it that way because I lived over 30 years without a thought towards this kind of morality and we lived together the way we saw fit for four years before I decided to become Catholic.

Based on how passionate some people sound against this sort of thing I guess I have a few questions. I only take answers from the Church and my priest and faith director to heart; anyone else I just take for consideration but I just have to ask…

Is cohabitation as brother and sister a sin - just being under the same roof?

Should people be turned away from the adult faith formation because they have a lifestyle that they wouldn’t have as practicing Catholics? One they use the RCIA program and later the Catholic life to assist with changing?

Don’t all people have their own crosses to bear - their own weaknesses- some they have to confess many times before they overcome it? I have a handful of venial sins like this that I’m working on. The weeks I’m vigilant I don’t have to confess them, but I have a feeling they will take a long time to master. Wouldn’t this apply to all sins?

I feel like this thread has two camps so far. The one that thinks and as someone so aptly said that the church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints, and the one that says you already have to be in a certain state of grace before even thinking about joining the Catholic fold. I just want to hear everyone’s point of view before I come to a solid conclusion with that. Forgive me if I’ve strayed from the intent of the original thread.

From what I’ve studied so far it seems to me I received a grace from God to even desire to join the Church to begin with and I’m thankful for that.

 

[PJM]

=bilop;10064682]That’s wrong.

There are a lot of ways to deal with it. Certainly they should be encouraged to stop cohabiting, but I certainly wouldn’t prevent someone becoming Catholic over it. This would seem to fall into the judgement of the pastor based on each individual case.

Remember, the sin of fornication is cured by marriage, and the Church is a hospital for sinner, not a hotel for saints.

As long as they go to confession before the wedding, the pastor has a lot of leeway in these situations.

God Bless

WWJD? God would insist that they not live togeater in sin. Choose Me -God or sex; one or the other. Sacrifice is an expected part of our Faith practice.

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

**Phil.2: 8 **“And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. **Mark.8: 34 **And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. **Luke.14: 7 **Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.” Matt.5: 19 “*Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. *“ **Matt.19: 17 **“And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

And this is what the position of the CC is, because it is God who decides.

While it is possible for a priest to do as you ask;[they too have a freewill] in doing so he too would be disobedient; therefore it is very unlikey to happen.

 

[bilop]

WWJD? God would insist that they not live togeater in sin. Choose Me -God or sex; one or the other. Sacrifice is an expected part of our Faith practice.

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

**Phil.2: 8 **“And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. **Mark.8: 34 **And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. **Luke.14: 7 **Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.” Matt.5: 19 “*Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. *“ **Matt.19: 17 **“And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

And this is what the position of the CC is, because it is God who decides.

While it is possible for a priest to do as you ask;[they too have a freewill] in doing so he too would be disobedient; therefore it is very unlikey to happen.

So, if a couple wants to join the Church, wants to get married in the Church, and stop their sinning, you’d say no, unless they can stop sinning right now? It’s better to leave them in a sinful state than work with them to fix the problem?

Conversions don’t happen overnight. If the person wants to stop sinning, the Church should welcome them, even if they don’t stop right away.

God Bless

 

[Kelfa28]

My husband and my parish is quite orthodox.

That being said, our RCIA director and our priest was well aware of my husband and my situation before we started.

It’s kind of hard to ignore when the two of us walked in and I was very visibly pregnant and we weren’t married.

We sat down and had a long discussion. We both knew we were sinning…that was painfully obvious. Unfortunately, we had few other options and my husband absolutely refused to force me to move out or move out himself. He told our RCIA director that we were going to stay together during my pregnancy and, obviously, when the baby was born. He was supporting me and our child. End of story.

We were completely celibate from that point on until our wedding night…eight months later.

I believe that each circumstance is different. Some circumstances involve children and it helps no one to separate a family until RCIA is completed and a marriage occurs or is convalidated.

Each couple should be sat down with the parish director, or whomever, and reality needs to be laid out…plain and simply. This is NOT what the Church approves of and here is why…etc…etc.

Believe me…I felt sick about my situation. I felt guilty and sick about it the entire time…thinking I had destroyed something so precious and meaningful. It took a lot of time, prayer and a complete and total conversion and effort of diving into the sacraments to feel fully forgiven and saved.

 

[anp1215]

Based on a few other responses I’m pretty sure I misread the OP but based on some other responses I would like to add something.

My Grandmother was my sponsor so I didn’t have any problems there.

I was co-habitating when I went through the program. The director of the adult faith formation told me and my boyfriend that we would be expected to live as brother and sister if we were to continue living together. I’m glad I was able to go through RCIA and become a confirmed Catholic. If the Church had turned me away I still wouldn’t be Catholic because I’m not in the position to leave for several reasons. We intend to get married soon, of course. My boyfriend was confirmed very young and lost interest in it a long time ago. But since RCIA and after I have continued to educate myself on the faith and I’ve rekindled an interest in him as well. He goes to confession and mass again. We listen to talks on not just chastity but a wide variety of other things to become better Catholics. I have a Baptist friend wants to go through the RCIA program now as well.

I understand that premarital sex is a mortal sin. I would never participate in communion if I had committed that sin without confessing to a priest. I wouldn’t confess to a priest if I wasn’t contrite. I don’t take communion after a confession for ANY sin either until I’ve made reparations. I also understand the importance of not being an occasion for sin. When I change clothes or take a shower I ask myself how would I handle it if it were my brother in the apartment with me? I have to look at it that way because I lived over 30 years without a thought towards this kind of morality and we lived together the way we saw fit for four years before I decided to become Catholic.

Based on how passionate some people sound against this sort of thing I guess I have a few questions. I only take answers from the Church and my priest and faith director to heart; anyone else I just take for consideration but I just have to ask…

Is cohabitation as brother and sister a sin - just being under the same roof?

Should people be turned away from the adult faith formation because they have a lifestyle that they wouldn’t have as practicing Catholics? One they use the RCIA program and later the Catholic life to assist with changing?

Don’t all people have their own crosses to bear - their own weaknesses- some they have to confess many times before they overcome it? I have a handful of venial sins like this that I’m working on. The weeks I’m vigilant I don’t have to confess them, but I have a feeling they will take a long time to master. Wouldn’t this apply to all sins?

I feel like this thread has two camps so far. The one that thinks and as someone so aptly said that the church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints, and the one that says you already have to be in a certain state of grace before even thinking about joining the Catholic fold. I just want to hear everyone’s point of view before I come to a solid conclusion with that. Forgive me if I’ve strayed from the intent of the original thread.

From what I’ve studied so far it seems to me I received a grace from God to even desire to join the Church to begin with and I’m thankful for that.

My husband and my parish is quite orthodox.

That being said, our RCIA director and our priest was well aware of my husband and my situation before we started.

It’s kind of hard to ignore when the two of us walked in and I was very visibly pregnant and we weren’t married.

We sat down and had a long discussion. We both knew we were sinning…that was painfully obvious. Unfortunately, we had few other options and my husband absolutely refused to force me to move out or move out himself. He told our RCIA director that we were going to stay together during my pregnancy and, obviously, when the baby was born. He was supporting me and our child. End of story.

We were completely celibate from that point on until our wedding night…eight months later.

I believe that each circumstance is different. Some circumstances involve children and it helps no one to separate a family until RCIA is completed and a marriage occurs or is convalidated.

Each couple should be sat down with the parish director, or whomever, and reality needs to be laid out…plain and simply. This is NOT what the Church approves of and here is why…etc…etc.

Believe me…I felt sick about my situation. I felt guilty and sick about it the entire time…thinking I had destroyed something so precious and meaningful. It took a lot of time, prayer and a complete and total conversion and effort of diving into the sacraments to feel fully forgiven and saved.

I just wanted to say that you both sound like incredibly strong dedicated Catholics. I can imagine it is very hard to remain celibate during cohabitation. It sounds like you both made the best of a less than ideal situation and that your parishes dealt with it perfectly by letting you know what needed to happen. God bless you! I don’t know if I could be that strong.

 

[bilop]

My husband and my parish is quite orthodox.

That being said, our RCIA director and our priest was well aware of my husband and my situation before we started.

It’s kind of hard to ignore when the two of us walked in and I was very visibly pregnant and we weren’t married.

We sat down and had a long discussion. We both knew we were sinning…that was painfully obvious. Unfortunately, we had few other options and my husband absolutely refused to force me to move out or move out himself. He told our RCIA director that we were going to stay together during my pregnancy and, obviously, when the baby was born. He was supporting me and our child. End of story.

We were completely celibate from that point on until our wedding night…eight months later.

I believe that each circumstance is different. Some circumstances involve children and it helps no one to separate a family until RCIA is completed and a marriage occurs or is convalidated.

Each couple should be sat down with the parish director, or whomever, and reality needs to be laid out…plain and simply. This is NOT what the Church approves of and here is why…etc…etc.

Believe me…I felt sick about my situation. I felt guilty and sick about it the entire time…thinking I had destroyed something so precious and meaningful. It took a lot of time, prayer and a complete and total conversion and effort of diving into the sacraments to feel fully forgiven and saved.

If I might ask, why didn’t you get married sooner?

Most pastors will make accommodations in waiving the 6 mo. waiting period for “urgent cases”, i.e. impending parenthood.

God Bless

 

[pnewton]

I just wanted to say that you both sound like incredibly strong dedicated Catholics. I can imagine it is very hard to remain celibate during cohabitation.

Aren’t you glad you stuck around for those answers? A person can simply not be received into the Church if they are living in an irregular marriage situation. You have here two situations where the pastor gave a difficult, but pastoral option, that to live as brother and sister, celebate, until properly married. It is not a solution that many could avail themselves of, but it is a praiseworthy one. It underscores the need to refrain from judgment where our knowledge of a situation is limited.

 

[Joe_5859]

Is cohabitation as brother and sister a sin - just being under the same roof?

Cohabitation in the strictest definition (two people living in the same place) is morally neutral in and of itself.

The main problem comes with the fact that, in our present age, the vast majority of people that are “cohabitating” are generally not living chastely. Those sins against chastity are the real problem.

I feel like this thread has two camps so far. The one that thinks and as someone so aptly said that the church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints, and the one that says you already have to be in a certain state of grace before even thinking about joining the Catholic fold. I just want to hear everyone’s point of view before I come to a solid conclusion with that. Forgive me if I’ve strayed from the intent of the original thread.

I don’t know that I’d say there are two different camps. I take it as people pointing out different areas of concern with regards to the same situation. We’re not necessarily in disagreement.

It is quite right that the Church is a hospital for sinners and we are not expected to be perfect before we can enter.

However, we are called to profess and believe all that the Church teaches and holds to be true. For someone to profess with their words that they will hold to all that the Church teaches, and yet remain living a life that directly opposes those teachings reveals a disconnect that should not be there. That is the main concern people are raising.

But again, in a situation like yours, you worked it out with your pastor and committed yourself to chastity. That’s great! But if someone was “cohabitating” in the colloquial sense (where it is a euphemism for not practicing chastity), then that would be a serious obstacle to entering the Catholic Church because it would show that they do not really hold to all that the Church teaches and holds to be true. In this sense, there are many other obstacles besides this one that a person might encounter besides unchastity. And it’s always best to work those out out with one’s pastor.

 

[PJM]

=bilop;10067815]So, if a couple wants to join the Church, wants to get married in the Church, and stop their sinning, you’d say no, unless they can stop sinning right now? It’s better to leave them in a sinful state than work with them to fix the problem?

Conversions don’t happen overnight. If the person wants to stop sinning, the Church should welcome them, even if they don’t stop right away.

God Bless

My friend, you seem to have miissed or over looked the WWJD

God, Bishops, Priest and Informed and Fully praticing Catholics are not permited to overlook a “Intrinsic Evil” inorder to accomplish a “good.” NOR should you

Truth is truth
Right IS Right
Mortal Sin is Mortal sin and is Never to be excused or made lite off! Amen

God Bless you,

pat /PJM

 

[Kelfa28]

If I might ask, why didn’t you get married sooner?

Most pastors will make accommodations in waiving the 6 mo. waiting period for “urgent cases”, i.e. impending parenthood.

God Bless

Honestly? I wanted a Church wedding with all of my family and friends. I wanted my father to give me away. I wanted a reception and a white wedding dress. I wanted bridesmaids and groomsmen.

But what I wanted most was to not feel stigmatized and ostracized. I didn’t want to feel like I was being punished with a quickie wedding to cover up my sinful past. I wanted to feel happy and accomplished at my wedding and not exhausted, rushed and guilty.

My wedding was the happiest day of my life. It was a conclusion to a long journey out of my past and into the future.
I had given birth to a beautiful baby girl the month prior.
I had proudly watched my husband received into the Church (a moment he had wanted for almost a decade but never had the chance until then) on the Easter Vigil.
We had purchased our first house and were waiting to move into it after our wedding.
You could see the joy in both my husband and my faces’ in the wedding pictures.

My husband wanted to hang a sign up at the reception that said “Mission Accomplished!”

Two days after I was married…I was confirmed in one of the most beautiful Churches in Massachusetts by the bishop. The Holy Spirit wasn’t just whispering in my ear but singing loudly. I was happy and I was home.

There is no other way I would have done it. I would have been so unhappy if I was rushed into Marriage to “make things right.”

 

[OneDayASaint]

Cohabitation in the strictest definition (two people living in the same place) is morally neutral in and of itself.

The main problem comes with the fact that, in our present age, the vast majority of people that are “cohabitating” are generally not living chastely. Those sins against chastity are the real problem.

I don’t know that I’d say there are two different camps. I take it as people pointing out different areas of concern with regards to the same situation. We’re not necessarily in disagreement.

It is quite right that the Church is a hospital for sinners and we are not expected to be perfect before we can enter.

However, we are called to profess and believe all that the Church teaches and holds to be true. For someone to profess with their words that they will hold to all that the Church teaches, and yet remain living a life that directly opposes those teachings reveals a disconnect that should not be there. That is the main concern people are raising.

But again, in a situation like yours, you worked it out with your pastor and committed yourself to chastity. That’s great! But if someone was “cohabitating” in the colloquial sense (where it is a euphemism for not practicing chastity), then that would be a serious obstacle to entering the Catholic Church because it would show that they do not really hold to all that the Church teaches and holds to be true. In this sense, there are many other obstacles besides this one that a person might encounter besides unchastity. And it’s always best to work those out out with one’s pastor.

Thank you for the clarification.

When I think of a couple that live together that decide to change their lives and join the Catholic church they do so with the intention of following the tenets. I’m biased in that sense because I picture the couple rolling with all ten commandments and making a commitment to chastity - I felt the reiterating of the teachings was basically saying “you live together, you’re a no go”. But maybe saying it is necessary because there might be people out there who want to become Catholic and not actually practice the faith for some strange reasons of their own.

 

[bilop]

My friend, you seem to have miissed or over looked the WWJD

God, Bishops, Priest and Informed and Fully praticing Catholics are not permited to overlook a “Intrinsic Evil” inorder to accomplish a “good.” NOR should you

Truth is truth
Right IS Right
Mortal Sin is Mortal sin and is Never to be excused or made lite off! Amen

God Bless you,

pat /PJM

I disagree. As long as the pastor informs them of the Church’s teaching, he is not required to reject them. He is not excusing mortal sin, he is helping them get out of it.

We don’t kick sinners out of the Church, there is no reason not to let them in, unless they are obstinate and refuse to accept that what they do is sinful.

Christ ate with prostitutes and tax collectors. He didn’t require them to completely reform first.

God Bless

 

[pnewton]

I found this in from the diocese of Salt Lake City that pretty much makes the decision for this situation. You might check your own diocese. This may be nothing but an academic discussion. The issue may be moot.

dioslc.org/images/tribunal/CANON%20LAW%20AND%20RCIA%20ISSUES.pdf

 

[bilop]

I found this in from the diocese of Salt Lake City that pretty much makes the decision for this situation. You might check your own diocese. This may be nothing but an academic discussion. The issue may be moot.

dioslc.org/images/tribunal/CANON%20LAW%20AND%20RCIA%20ISSUES.pdf

This addressed primarily people in irregular marriages, saying they need to have them regularized before entering the Church. No one has said otherwise.

It does not seem to address unmarried people who are cohabitating and fornicating, which was the point at issue.

God Bless

 

[clem456]

My friend, you seem to have miissed or over looked the WWJD

God, Bishops, Priest and Informed and Fully praticing Catholics are not permited to overlook a “Intrinsic Evil” inorder to accomplish a “good.” NOR should you

Truth is truth
Right IS Right
Mortal Sin is Mortal sin and is Never to be excused or made lite off! Amen

God Bless you,

pat /PJM

**12Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults. **

13Also keep back Your servant from presumptuous sins;
Let them not rule over me;
Then I will be blameless,
And I shall be acquitted of great transgression.

14Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Your sight,
O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer.

RCIA is not simply a presentation of Church doctrine. It has to be real witness by real people, all of them sinners without exception (hence the quotation of psalm 19 above). RCIA should be a witness to a relationship with the Living God, in the person of Jesus Christ, lived through His Church. RCIA is a process, not -just- a program of doctrine. It should be assumed, because it’s fact, that catechists and candidates alike will grow in holiness. It’s not like you have those that have arrived, and those that are on the outside looking in. We invite those who have not professed the Creed to come on a journey with us. This journey lasts a lifetime.

To simply kick someone out of an RCIA process because they are sinners would be a prime example of hypocrisy and would IMHO, be an evil in itself. .

 

[pnewton]

To simply kick someone out of an RCIA process because they are sinners would be a prime example of hypocrisy and would IMHO, be an evil in itself. .

In my reading on this topic, there is nothing in the situation under discussion to prevent anyone from being admitted into the ranks of the catecumens. However, the irregular marriage situation must be resolved to receive the sacraments of initiation. There is no rule that RCIA must be completed in a year.