How easy is it to go to Hell?

[LovelyLadybug]

we can say that those that die in a state of mortal sin go to Hell.

Even if someone dies in mortal sin, we don’t know for sure. Only God knows what’s on that person’s hearts. Maybe they’re truly sorry and just haven’t had a chance to go to Confession. Maybe they have a conversion at the last minute and are truly sorry and want to go to Confession, but die before they have the chance. Maybe they don’t know what Confession is, but want to make up for their sins!!! We can’t even say that Hitler went to hell Now I, in NO WAY, consider Hitler a good person, but only God knows what’s on his heart and if he is in hell or not. I hope this helps!!!

 

[Fauken]

Even if someone dies in mortal sin, we don’t know for sure. Only God knows what’s on that person’s hearts. Maybe they’re truly sorry and just haven’t had a chance to go to Confession. Maybe they have a conversion at the last minute and are truly sorry and want to go to Confession, but die before they have the chance. Maybe they don’t know what Confession is, but want to make up for their sins!!!

Hence why I said:

Nobody can say whether or not a particular person went to Hell

 

[Fauken]

The “those that are in hell chose it” philosophy is at best flawed at worse, a horrible lie.

The most sadistic/hateful/horrendous person who ever lived does not chose unimaginable suffering on himself. It’s non-nonsensical. It’s simply the best argument many can come up with to explain the unexplained.

What exactly do you think the result of rejecting the source of all that is good and just in the world should be? The chief pain of Hell is due to separation from God, a rejection of all that He is in favor of your own sins. So, actually yes, the most sadistic/hateful/horrendous person does bring this upon themselves, as I imagine they’d want nothing to do with the source of all compassion and love.

 

[LovelyLadybug]

I agree with Fauken. The people in hell are very hateful people who don’t want anything to do with God. They CHOOSE to be separated from him and they would rather suffer than spend time with him.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

The “those that are in hell chose it” philosophy is at best flawed at worse, a horrible lie.

The most sadistic/hateful/horrendous person who ever lived does not chose unimaginable suffering on himself. It’s non-nonsensical. It’s simply the best argument many can come up with to explain the unexplained.

It is not sadistic, it is the Truth. They may not chose the suffering, but they do choose to live their lives separated from God. I cannot spend my entire life saying no to God and then magically turn around and say yes after my death. The suffering is merely a natural outcome of the choice to reject all that is Good.

To live with God it to choose Him over yourself, it is to choose His will over your own wants and desires (at least at first. Ideally, the more you make this choice the more your will aligns with the Lord’s.) The choices we make in those situations shape our souls, and make us inclined towards Him or towards ourselves. When we die will be confronted with the choice, either we want God or we want ourselves. That choice is what determines where we go for eternity.

You may not like it, but that doesn’t make it any less true. Every last damned soul has chosen themselves over God, and given the opportunity they would not choose otherwise, no matter how much suffering it may cause them.

 

[Fauken]

You may not like it, but that doesn’t make it any less true. Every last damned soul has chosen themselves over God, and given the opportunity they would not choose otherwise, no matter how much suffering it may cause them.

Yup. It’s a sobering thought that to a soul in Hell, an eternity in Heaven is more painful than an eternity in Hell.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

ProdglArchitect:

You may not like it, but that doesn’t make it any less true. Every last damned soul has chosen themselves over God, and given the opportunity they would not choose otherwise, no matter how much suffering it may cause them.

Yup. It’s a sobering thought that to a soul in Hell, an eternity in Heaven is more painful than an eternity in Hell.

I’m sure you’ve heard of “Cry of a Lost Soul” before. It’s the recounting of a letter wrttien by a damned soul to someone she knew on Earth who was praying for her. One of the most sobering lines in the entire letter is this:

Now He shows Himself merciful towards us by not compelling a closer approach than that afforded in this remote inferno. Every step bringing us closer to God would cause us a greater pain than that which a step closer to a burning furnace would cause you.

That tells us something of the nature of God’s love, that it is more intense even than the fires of Hell, yet for those who embrace it it is nothing. I’m rereading C.S. Lewis’ “The Great Divorce” (I seem to reread it every other month because of the imagery.) and it always strikes me the way he describes the purification of the saved. At first, the unpurified souls cannot even walk on the grass without intense pain because they cannot bend it and it pierces their feet. After a time though, were they to endure that small suffering, they would grow solid and be able to walk on it without difficulty. It is an apt metaphor for moving from a state of sinfulness to grace.

 

[Fauken]

Actually, I’ve never heard of “Cry of a Lost Soul” before. I do like C.S. Lewis’ analogy. The pain can’t be overcome without trying again and again. Holiness isn’t a one and done process, or a single great action. It is small steps and not always pleasant.

 

[Mijoy2]

I agree with Fauken. The people in hell are very hateful people who don’t want anything to do with God. They CHOOSE to be separated from him and they would rather suffer than spend time with him.

I really do not mean to be the pessimist here. There (in my opinion) just seems to be so much about our faith that defies reason and it truly hurts me to be honest with myself about it.

Take for example LovelyLadybugs quote. " The people in hell are very hateful people". Although I understand the sentiment and respect the belief system that is behind this idea, by definition (CCC) , there are many people potentially in hell that are not “hateful people” (heavily emphasis -potentially- here).

It doesn’t take rocket science to conclude this. Missing Mass, self-gratification, among other mortal sins, that most people (the vast majority) are by the standards of society at large, certainly not hateful people.

To label the people in hell (those who committed mortal sins as defined by the church as mortal, or at least grave matter), as -hateful- is precisely the same thing as labeling most people (practically all) as hateful. When one is intellectually honest, I fail to see how one can make such a sweeping statement. I am not picking on you LovelyLadybug, by no means, I just have a deep routed dilemma with this concept.

We want to think of the people who may be in hell as horrible souls, but they are everyone on your subway car this morning, everyone in the supermarket, everyone at the ball game, our sons, our daughters, our sisters, our brothers, our neighbors…ourselves.

And I submit - they do not chose eternal suffering on themselves.

 

[stpurl]

Apples and oranges. Again, this is not ‘judging who goes to hell’, this is a simple observation, an ‘if-then’ statement of logic which would have been and was recognizable to all the saints who spoke about the Four Last Things, and NONE of whom said anything like 'we cannot determine IF a person died in unrepentent mortal sin THEN he or she ‘may’ be saved.

Such a statement, despite its ties to "God’s infinite mercy’, distorts the image of God’s infinite justice.

 

[stpurl]

Are you saying that God is unfair? That these ‘nice people’ are simply ‘victims’? That they shouldn’t be in hell? They didn’t choose it?

 

[Inquiry]

I consider the imagery of the man with the lizard to be one of the best (albeit quickest) depictions if the nature of purgatory.

 

[Mijoy2]

I’m rereading C.S. Lewis’ “The Great Divorce” (I seem to reread it every other month because of the imagery.)

Lewis’s rendition of hell in the The Great Divorce is not the fire and brimstone hell that Augustine’s suggests in The City Of God, is eternal fire, real fire, melting our flesh then replenishing our flesh to melt again over and over for all eternity. These are two very different renditions of hell.

Lewis’s story is one of which I could reasonable understand. But it does not line up with many Saints visions, or concepts, of emotional and physical sufferings to the extent of which we cannot even imagine.

The Great Divorce is a softball hell.

 

[Fauken]

It doesn’t take rocket science to conclude this. Missing Mass, self-gratification, among other mortal sins, that most people (the vast majority) are by the standards of society at large, certainly not hateful people.

Because they don’t “hurt” people? They destroy their relationship with Love Itself. “Hatefulness” doesn’t mean you have to go on a murdering spree.

We want to think of the people who may be in hell as horrible souls, but they are everyone on your subway car this morning, everyone in the supermarket, everyone at the ball game, our sons, our daughters, our sisters, our brothers, our neighbors…ourselves.

Sobering thought, isn’t it? And you erroneously assume that we assume we’re not one of them. I dislike talking about Hell. I’m fully aware that I could end up there and that what applies to them applies to me.

And I submit - they do not chose eternal suffering on themselves.

They choose to reject Love and don’t want to be with Him for eternity. They’d prefer their sins. And so they get exactly what they want.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

You’re describing a person who is not dead. Fauken is describing a person who is. The person who is not dead can change. The dead cannot.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Lewis’s rendition of hell in the The Great Divorce is not the fire and brimstone hell that Augustine’s suggests in The City Of God, is eternal fire, real fire, melting our flesh then replenishing our flesh to melt again over and over for all eternity. These are two very different renditions of hell.

Lewis’s story is one of which I could reasonable understand. But it does not line up with many Saints visions, or concepts, of emotional and physical sufferings to the extent of which we cannot even imagine.

The Great Divorce is a softball hell.

I agree. That’s why I referenced the book’s analogy of purification, not it’s concept of Hell. I reject Lewis’ version of Hell in the story, but I find his image of Heaven and the reasons people choose not to go there to be endlessly engaging.

I consider the imagery of the man with the lizard to be one of the best (albeit quickest) depictions if the nature of purgatory.

I can only hope Purgatory will go that fast for me XD But yeah, that’s one of the bits that’s always stuck with me. I have a very large lizard on my should and I would love it if I could burn it away that quickly.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Peace. I rejoice in thanksgiving to GOD, and those who share regarding GOD’s Will for the well being of others.
We know that Jesus Beloved Redeemer is merciful. No doubt about it. GOD did not have to Live, endure The Passion & Extremely Painful Torturous Crucifixion, Experiencing Bodily Death, Entombment, then Raised on The Third Day; to add to GOD. GOD, choose this so GOD can give Divine Merit(GRACE), not earned at all by humanity - as the Path to Heaven.
~
Yes, The Holy Bible and The Church teaches regarding invincible ignorance(lack of an informed conscience.) So by GOD in His Grace & Mercy by The Merits of JESUS CHRIST, does provide for the possibility of those who through no fault of their own do not know Jesus Christ and His Church, can by Grace be saved if to their state of knowledge they strive to be Godly and truly charitable. But this is not carte blanche. The two main reason for the exodus from The Church are less healthy understanding of damnation,
and less healthy understanding of the complete need of Jesus Christ by His Merits to joyfully diligently pursue wisdom(true Godly concern for others as opposed to just being ‘wise’) virtuous charitable self giving life. Bishop Robert Barron talked about this. The watering down of the Faith, had the opposite intended effect. I love the simplicity of Scripture; knowing full well that today’s rhetorical practices require due diligence to phrase these truths with creative compassion, but avoid ambiguity, striving for clarity.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to depart into hell.” - Matthew 5:27-30
~
" Blessed is the man
who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked,
or set foot on the path of sinners,
or sit in the seat of mockers.
But his delight is in the Law of the LORD,
and on His law he meditates day and night." - Psalm 1:1-2
~
“But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us walk in step with the Spirit.” - Galatians 5:18-25

 

[Mijoy2]

Based on my God given reason, yes that is what I am saying.

The dilemma is that the Church teaches a loving God. Which is why I am torn. I desire to believe all the Church teaches. Yet this is contrary to reason which means there is something wrong. I readily admit it is likely me, my understanding. But I have to be adequetly corrected in this regard by a reasonable counter argument.

Perhaps I am simply too inarticulate to make my point more clear. From my perspective the Church is talking out of both sides of her mouth regarding what warrants hell.
I say this respectively, not with animosity or anger, only with confusion.

 

[LovelyLadybug]

I guess that makes sense. I probably shouldn’t have said they’re all hateful people. I was thinking of all the murderers, thiefs, kidnappers, etc… in hell. But that doesn’t make them hateful, I guess. But I know the people in there hate God, I think - if they didn’t truly hate God, I don’t think they would be in hell. I’m not sure about that, though.

 

[Inquiry]

It’s not the speed that makes it a good depiction of Purgatory. Who knows how long the process lasted from the point of view of the man and the lizard? It is the consent and the explicit transformation of something base and impure into something good and holy that make it such a good representation of Purgatory for me.