S
STT
Guest
Lets define God as the creator. How could God possibly prove that He is the creator considering the fact that the creation is done?
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D
dshix
Guest
Who, exactly, are you thinking He would “prove” it to?
He doesn’t need to prove it to Himself.
To prove it to anyone else, he could tell them he is about to create a flying rainbow unicorn in front of them and then do it.
He could also just infuse the knowledge that He created creation into the intellect of the receiver.
Is there a deeper question here I’m missing?
He doesn’t need to prove it to Himself.
To prove it to anyone else, he could tell them he is about to create a flying rainbow unicorn in front of them and then do it.
He could also just infuse the knowledge that He created creation into the intellect of the receiver.
Is there a deeper question here I’m missing?
S
STT
Guest
I don’t know.Who, exactly, are you thinking He would “prove” it to?
That I agree.He doesn’t need to prove it to Himself.
That could be an illusion. Demons are master of illusion.To prove it to anyone else, he could tell them he is about to create a flying rainbow unicorn in front of them and then do it.
How could you justify that that is the correct knowledge? You need to check the knowledge by having the power to create meaning that God should create God.He could also just infuse the knowledge that He created creation into the intellect of the receiver.
M
MaryT777
Guest
The inspired Word of God, the Bible. It proves he is indeed the creator in Genesis 1.Lets define God as the creator. How could God possibly prove that He is the creator considering the fact that the creation is done?
Genesis 1:3 and read on.
Genesis, chapter 1
*
The Story of Creation.*
1
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth
2
- and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the water
3
Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.
usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/index.cfm
S
STT
Guest
I am sorry but we are in philosophy forum and you need to provide an argument.The inspired Word of God, the Bible. It proves he is indeed the creator in Genesis 1.
Genesis 1:3 and read on.
Genesis, chapter 1
*
The Story of Creation.*
1
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth
2
NAB free online
- and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the water
3
Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.
usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/index.cfm
U
undead_rat
Guest
The obvious answer is that creation itself is proof of the Creator. This simplicity ought to suffice, and, indeed, it did suffice for such notables as Abraham, Moses, Elijah, John, Jesus, and others.Lets define God as the creator. How could God possibly prove that He is the creator considering the fact that the creation is done?
But the rest of humanity, not being so innately devout, seems to require something more.
Therefore you will find throughout Holy Scripture YHWH creating and enacting in various scenarios that bring attention to the fact that He is the Creator.
Now that mankind has entered into the timeframe known as the Great Day of the Lord, you should be prepared for amazing and terrible events.
It is not for nothing that the psalmist proclaims:
The nations have sunk into the pit of their own making;
they are caught by the feet in the snare they set themselves.
YHWH has made Himself known, has given judgment;
He has trapped the wicked in the work of their own hands.
Psalm 9:15-16
Creation may have been completed long ago, as you say. But that does not mean that the story is over. Far from it.
See! The disaster spreads
from nation to nation,
a mighty tempest rises
from the far ends of the world.
Those slaughtered by YHWH that day will be scattered across the world from end to end.
No dirge will be raised for them; no one will gather them or bury them;
they will stay lying on the surface like dung.
Jeremiah 25:32-33
D
dshix
Guest
I’m not sure what you mean. God could easily infuse the knowledge of creation from his perspective, allowing the person to see so clearly that it is true, that there would be no way for them to deny it.How could you justify that that is the correct knowledge? You need to check the knowledge by having the power to create meaning that God should create God.
This is actually exactly what will occur at the Last Judgement: all the damned will see so clearly that they deserve their punishment that none will be capable of arguing against it.
M
Memaw
Guest
HE already has, there are just some who choose not to believe HIM, and your asking US how HE could prove it !!! God Bless, MemawLets define God as the creator. How could God possibly prove that He is the creator considering the fact that the creation is done?
J
John_Paul2
Guest
Dear FriendLets define God as the creator. How could God possibly prove that He is the creator considering the fact that the creation is done?
It’s good to see that we have a lot of interaction with your question and it’s always nice to listen to everybody’s own personal view, this is my personal view.
When we look at our wonderful earth, if we carefully observe how the world functions, we can see that there is some higher power, We look how light changes to darkness, Darkness to Light, how plants grow in the fields, the tides coming in and out on the beaches, how the rainbow appears in the sky and thunder and lightning, we can see a creation that is perfectly organised in its functioning.
If you believe in Genesis, then you believe in the metaphoric view of the creation story. It is well known that god, in the beginning, had a direct relationship with our first parents. So our first parents had that proof. It was only after the fall that god withdrew direct contact, he then spoke through the prophets before us, and then gave to us His only begotten Son Jesus, and for us all to be eventually saved through Jesus.
we also have to look at the human soul, we have to look at man. Science may tell us we came from another creature through evolution and therefore trying to devalue the existence of god.
But we have to look at man very carefully, we are the only creatures who can recognize through self-knowledge that there is a god, we are the only creatures who through a free choice can reject our knowledge of God, or accept our knowledge of god.
It’s very clear that through our possible evolution, that somebody finalized the plan and programmed us with a self-knowledge and freedom of choice that differs and separates us from any other form of the creature walking the earth.
If you also accept the gospels as proof, we then get a visit from Jesus, who walked with people, teaching them about his father in heaven, advising people how they can be saved and eventually giving his life on the cross for our sins in full view of the people watching.
if you are hoping for a scientific proof, then I’m afraid it’s not possible. The reason why is because science is a concept that is based on exploring for answers, whereas god is the answer, Without God, there is no human concept that we have named science.
Our human self-knowledge, the abilities that we have that separates us from other creatures, The functions of the earth, the visit from Jesus Christ himself, the existence of the church, the bible, for me this is more than enough to tell me, that there is something behind all of this.
I accept Jesus in what he taught us, and that’s why I choose the Catholic Church. The church built upon St Peter
Why do I accept Jesus? Nobody would die for what they were preaching if they were lying.
God bless us all, and may our Lady Pray for us
T
thinkandmull
Guest
With regard to the last post, cited by Aquinas, as far as I know every religion has martyrs. Interreligious dialogue recognizes this now. Is there something about the first Christian martyrs that distinguished them? I’ve been wondering about it for awhile, but never asked the question yetDear Friend
It’s good to see that we have a lot of interaction with your question and it’s always nice to listen to everybody’s own personal view, this is my personal view.
When we look at our wonderful earth, if we carefully observe how the world functions, we can see that there is some higher power, We look how light changes to darkness, Darkness to Light, how plants grow in the fields, the tides coming in and out on the beaches, how the rainbow appears in the sky and thunder and lightning, we can see a creation that is perfectly organised in its functioning.
If you believe in Genesis, then you believe in the metaphoric view of the creation story. It is well known that god, in the beginning, had a direct relationship with our first parents. So our first parents had that proof. It was only after the fall that god withdrew direct contact, he then spoke through the prophets before us, and then gave to us His only begotten Son Jesus, and for us all to be eventually saved through Jesus.
we also have to look at the human soul, we have to look at man. Science may tell us we came from another creature through evolution and therefore trying to devalue the existence of god.
But we have to look at man very carefully, we are the only creatures who can recognize through self-knowledge that there is a god, we are the only creatures who through a free choice can reject our knowledge of God, or accept our knowledge of god.
It’s very clear that through our possible evolution, that somebody finalized the plan and programmed us with a self-knowledge and freedom of choice that differs and separates us from any other form of the creature walking the earth.
If you also accept the gospels as proof, we then get a visit from Jesus, who walked with people, teaching them about his father in heaven, advising people how they can be saved and eventually giving his life on the cross for our sins in full view of the people watching.
if you are hoping for a scientific proof, then I’m afraid it’s not possible. The reason why is because science is a concept that is based on exploring for answers, whereas god is the answer, Without God, there is no human concept that we have named science.
Our human self-knowledge, the abilities that we have that separates us from other creatures, The functions of the earth, the visit from Jesus Christ himself, the existence of the church, the bible, for me this is more than enough to tell me, that there is something behind all of this.
I accept Jesus in what he taught us, and that’s why I choose the Catholic Church. The church built upon St Peter
Why do I accept Jesus? Nobody would die for what they were preaching if they were lying.
God bless us all, and may our Lady Pray for us
J
John_Paul2
Guest
Dear ThinkWith regard to the last post, cited by Aquinas, as far as I know every religion has martyrs. Interreligious dialogue recognizes this now. Is there something about the first Christian martyrs that distinguished them? I’ve been wondering about it for awhile, but never asked the question yet
I to myself often think about the first Christian martyrs
Martyrdom is a subject where we could spend hours upon hours discussing.
I do personally think there was a distinction between the first Christian martyrs and that simple distinction is, that the first Christian martyrs walked personally alongside Jesus Christ, so they knew what they were giving their life’s for.
Whereas now, we don’t see god, we believe in god by faith in what our ancestors have passed down to us.
So we live in hope that its all true, whereas they saw the truth with their own eyes
I think the early Christians would have had much more reassurance over their martyrdom than we would have now.
The downside to martyrdom is religion itself. Religion is such a powerful tool that it can easily be used to manipulate people, and therefore it can make people want to become martyrs to get to the kingdom of heaven, and I don’t have to specify the religion for you to work out which religion is teaching that.
In summary, I do think its safe to use the death of Jesus and the people who lost their life’s for him as evidence of the existence of god. There is lots of evidence that Jesus walked the earth which includes evidence from non-Christian sources
It’s up to us to accept it or decline it
M
mikekle
Guest
I believe even if Jesus came down to times square at rush hour and started performing miracles in front of large crowds…how many people would actually believe it was real? I doubt many would.HE already has, there are just some who choose not to believe HIM, and your asking US how HE could prove it !!! God Bless, Memaw
People have not changed much over 2000 yrs.
P
petra22
Guest
Amen! Loved your post!God bless us all, and may our Lady Pray for us
S
STT
Guest
Those (bold parts) are not a good way to convince an intellectual being.The obvious answer is that creation itself is proof of the Creator. This simplicity ought to suffice, and, indeed, it did suffice for such notables as Abraham, Moses, Elijah, John, Jesus, and others.
But the rest of humanity, not being so innately devout, seems to require something more.
Therefore you will find throughout Holy Scripture YHWH creating and enacting in various scenarios that bring attention to the fact that He is the Creator.
Now that mankind has entered into the timeframe known as the Great Day of the Lord, you should be prepared for amazing and terrible events.
It is not for nothing that the psalmist proclaims:
**
The nations have sunk into the pit of their own making;
they are caught by the feet in the snare they set themselves.
YHWH has made Himself known, has given judgment;
He has trapped the wicked in the work of their own hands.
**
Psalm 9:15-16
Creation may have been completed long ago, as you say. But that does not mean that the story is over. Far from it.
**
See! The disaster spreads
from nation to nation,
a mighty tempest rises
from the far ends of the world.
Those slaughtered by YHWH that day will be scattered across the world from end to end.
No dirge will be raised for them; no one will gather them or bury them;
they will stay lying on the surface like dung.
**
Jeremiah 25:32-33
S
STT
Guest
An apple falls if you release it. So we have two things: (1) Knowledge of fall apple upon release and (2) The act of fall. What I was arguing is that the infused knowledge alone is not sufficient as a proof for creation. You need the act of creation as well yet the universe has been created so we are dealing with a problem.I’m not sure what you mean. God could easily infuse the knowledge of creation from his perspective, allowing the person to see so clearly that it is true, that there would be no way for them to deny it.
That is too late and it is not fair.This is actually exactly what will occur at the Last Judgement: all the damned will see so clearly that they deserve their punishment that none will be capable of arguing against it.
S
STT
Guest
Miracle is different from the act of creation. The death of those who die because of their belief, witness of miracles, cannot be considered as a proof for creation.Dear Friend
It’s good to see that we have a lot of interaction with your question and it’s always nice to listen to everybody’s own personal view, this is my personal view.
When we look at our wonderful earth, if we carefully observe how the world functions, we can see that there is some higher power, We look how light changes to darkness, Darkness to Light, how plants grow in the fields, the tides coming in and out on the beaches, how the rainbow appears in the sky and thunder and lightning, we can see a creation that is perfectly organised in its functioning.
If you believe in Genesis, then you believe in the metaphoric view of the creation story. It is well known that god, in the beginning, had a direct relationship with our first parents. So our first parents had that proof. It was only after the fall that god withdrew direct contact, he then spoke through the prophets before us, and then gave to us His only begotten Son Jesus, and for us all to be eventually saved through Jesus.
we also have to look at the human soul, we have to look at man. Science may tell us we came from another creature through evolution and therefore trying to devalue the existence of god.
But we have to look at man very carefully, we are the only creatures who can recognize through self-knowledge that there is a god, we are the only creatures who through a free choice can reject our knowledge of God, or accept our knowledge of god.
It’s very clear that through our possible evolution, that somebody finalized the plan and programmed us with a self-knowledge and freedom of choice that differs and separates us from any other form of the creature walking the earth.
If you also accept the gospels as proof, we then get a visit from Jesus, who walked with people, teaching them about his father in heaven, advising people how they can be saved and eventually giving his life on the cross for our sins in full view of the people watching.
if you are hoping for a scientific proof, then I’m afraid it’s not possible. The reason why is because science is a concept that is based on exploring for answers, whereas god is the answer, Without God, there is no human concept that we have named science.
Our human self-knowledge, the abilities that we have that separates us from other creatures, The functions of the earth, the visit from Jesus Christ himself, the existence of the church, the bible, for me this is more than enough to tell me, that there is something behind all of this.
I accept Jesus in what he taught us, and that’s why I choose the Catholic Church. The church built upon St Peter
Why do I accept Jesus? Nobody would die for what they were preaching if they were lying.
God bless us all, and may our Lady Pray for us
R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
We arent dealing with any problem.An apple falls if you release it. So we have two things: (1) Knowledge of fall apple upon release and (2) The act of fall. What I was arguing is that the infused knowledge alone is not sufficient as a proof for creation. You need the act of creation as well yet the universe has been created so we are dealing with a problem.
That is too late and it is not fair.
God said
I AM
Thats it, if you believe, then start believing,
if you dont believe, then why are you on a Catholic forum? Are you searching for the Truth?
Thats too late and not fair that you are going to wait till the Last Judgement. Really? God is not fair because STT decided to reject God and His teachings, even though STT never went looking?
You are basically saying
you exist , therefore you are, and you are entitled.
Faith without works…
F
ffg
Guest
How can God prove He is the Creator?
A) God has to make Himself known to that which He creates.
How to get there -
Since creation is only able to work within the limits God sets for it (the nature of said creation)…
For God to make Himself known, He must work within the limits of the creation.
There wouldn’t be a more efficacious way than incarnation (drawing Himself into His work).
Doesn’t mean it’s the only way -
Prior (or post) of the point in time that the Creator of time chooses to enter time and take on the nature of creation (work in creation’s limits) -
There may be identifiable efforts to study (if they were recorded, or remembered and passed down)…
AND -
If it is God’s will to - make Himself known.
A) God has to make Himself known to that which He creates.
How to get there -
Since creation is only able to work within the limits God sets for it (the nature of said creation)…
For God to make Himself known, He must work within the limits of the creation.
There wouldn’t be a more efficacious way than incarnation (drawing Himself into His work).
Doesn’t mean it’s the only way -
Prior (or post) of the point in time that the Creator of time chooses to enter time and take on the nature of creation (work in creation’s limits) -
There may be identifiable efforts to study (if they were recorded, or remembered and passed down)…
AND -
If it is God’s will to - make Himself known.
D
dshix
Guest
Your argument is not sufficient to counter the point. To “prove” something is to provide evidence for it. If God were to infuse complete and perfect knowledge of His creation, including the fact that He did it and including the knowledge of all of God’s actions in creation throughout time, that would absolutely be sufficient evidence to prove it.An apple falls if you release it. So we have two things: (1) Knowledge of fall apple upon release and (2) The act of fall. What I was arguing is that the infused knowledge alone is not sufficient as a proof for creation. You need the act of creation as well yet the universe has been created so we are dealing with a problem.
You are wrong. God is infinitely just. The punishment for the damned is perfectly just.That is too late and it is not fair.
S
STT
Guest
There are about 4300 religion worldwide. Each founder of religion says that I AM, I am prophet, I am messenger, I am etc. Now tell me what is the truth.We arent dealing with any problem.
God said
I AM
Thats it, if you believe, then start believing,
if you dont believe, then why are you on a Catholic forum? Are you searching for the Truth?
Thats too late and not fair that you are going to wait till the Last Judgement. Really? God is not fair because STT decided to reject God and His teachings, even though STT never went looking?
You are basically saying
you exist , therefore you are, and you are entitled.
Faith without works…
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