How God could prove that He is the creator?

[STT]

There is a difference between performing miracles in order to bear witness at the time of the Incarnation and “proofs” that would satisfy the specificity demanded by Greek logic.

Beat witness for what?

 

[Exsanguin8]

Beat witness for what?

“But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.” (John 10:38)

 

[ANV]

By existing, that would be a great start

 

[ffg]

I didn’t get you here.

God cannot prove that He could create a soul which the ability to be alive or conscious because we don’t have access to consciousness from third person perspective.

That is not true. There could be no doubters if you make a chair in front of their eyes because they trust on knowledge of how things work when it comes to making a chair.

You can’t understand a simple human, but you expect to understand ‘how’ God works?

Here again you assume / apply to yourself a knowledge - that you know something that God cannot do.

How do you know God cannot do something? looks like your defense is because of your (our) limits.

Back to basics - It’s not that complicated.

How does God prove He is the Creator?

God simply has to make Himself known.

If I am not God -

to know God ‘is’ -

Is all it takes to know God creates.

Because by default, I have to be creation.

 

[STT]

“But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.” (John 10:38)

That is what do you believe.

 

[STT]

You can’t understand a simple human, but you expect to understand ‘how’ God works?

Here again you assume / apply to yourself a knowledge - that you know something that God cannot do.

How do you know God cannot do something? looks like your defense is because of your (our) limits.

Back to basics - It’s not that complicated.

How does God prove He is the Creator?

God simply has to make Himself known.

If I am not God -

to know God ‘is’ -

Is all it takes to know God creates.

Because by default, I have to be creation.

This is logically impossible: “God cannot prove that He could create a soul which the ability to be alive or conscious because we don’t have access to consciousness from third person perspective.” That is true because the only thing which attaches you to the reality, mere illusion, is experience.

 

[dshix]

This is logically impossible: “God cannot prove that He could create a soul which the ability to be alive or conscious because we don’t have access to consciousness from third person perspective.” That is true because the only thing which attaches you to the reality, mere illusion, is experience.

You make two assertions here:

1. “we don’t have access to consciousness from third person perspective”
2. “the only thing which attaches you to the reality, mere illusion, is experience”

Prove both of these. Moreover, you need to prove that God is not capable of overriding any limitations there are in human nature.

 

[ffg]

This is logically impossible: “God cannot prove that He could create a soul which the ability to be alive or conscious because we don’t have access to consciousness from third person perspective.” That is true because the only thing which attaches you to the reality, mere illusion, is experience.

Ignoring the subject of your own thread and doubling down on a defense (to a side story) similar to -

‘I’m not tall enough to see over the wall, thus there is nothing on the other side.’

Nice.

Your premise in summary: Our limits effect God’s ability.

For your sake, please keep asking questions.

 

[Exsanguin8]

That is what do you believe.

I don’t understand this.

 

[STT]

You make two assertions here:

1. “we don’t have access to consciousness from third person perspective”

You become him/her if you experience his/her self which this is the first point of view.

1. “the only thing which attaches you to the reality, mere illusion, is experience”

Prove both of these. Moreover, you need to prove that God is not capable of overriding any limitations there are in human nature.

Isn’t God in your system of belief sustaining the creation? Yes. Therefore the reality is mere mere illusion otherwise it doesn’t need a sustainer.

 

[STT]

I don’t understand this.

I don’t understand how that could be related to topic of this thread which requires reason either. What was your main reason for quoting that verse?

 

[dshix]

You become him/her if you experience his/her self which this is the first point of view.

You just made another assertion. That is not necessarily true. One could have the “experience” of a third person simply infused into their intellect and memory.

I asked for a proof, not more assertions.

Isn’t God in your system of belief sustaining the creation? Yes. Therefore the reality is mere mere illusion otherwise it doesn’t need a sustainer.

This doesn’t make sense. Please clarify what you’re trying to say. And use some sort of proof, not more assertions.

 

[STT]

You just made another assertion. That is not necessarily true. One could have the “experience” of a third person simply infused into their intellect and memory.

I asked for a proof, not more assertions.

Experiencing the self is different from experiencing the intellect or memory. Memory and intellect could be properties of matter (this could be subject of another discussions). You have to get the self of another person in order to experience his/her self. Self is about what you are therefore you cannot have two selves. I cannot be myself and someone else at the same time.

This doesn’t make sense. Please clarify what you’re trying to say. And use some sort of proof, not more assertions.

This is part of your system of belief. I think one in here familiar with the work of Aquinas can help us with the right passage.

 

[Libertarian_FL]

That’s a very good question, Well as an Apatheist my take is until such time as deities are demonstrated to be real AND make some kind of demands positive or negative (will do things for us that are good or bad) we shouldn’t waste much on them or one deity. No churches, or temples or holy places or clergy or schools dedicated to ministry etc. but instead focus on things that are helpful for the human species. Things like genetic science to improve our own forms removing genetic diseases and enhancing our bodies and minds would be very good we can them evolve our species through science. Or improve food production globally, hand out free birth control temporary and permanent to everyone, focus on art and culture or heck give everyone a three week vacation with pay would be of more use than say paying for religion.

So to me God if he exists should accept humans are now not believing and if he created us should have very well expected at some point we won’t need him anymore and let us grow as a species that is now an adult one. Like a parent whose child moved away from home and works and has a family. If he doesn’t like this then he should have been far more open and been active in the human condition with angels walking and flying around and gave us clear rules like you would children and kept us there.

My take anyway he would need to show himself, create a galaxy right next to ours full of life and do deeds beyond what an advance alien species would do as one example.

 

[ANV]

That’s a very good question, Well as an Apatheist my take is until such time as deities are demonstrated to be real AND make some kind of demands positive or negative (will do things for us that are good or bad) we shouldn’t waste much on them or one deity. No churches, or temples or holy places or clergy or schools dedicated to ministry etc. but instead focus on things that are helpful for the human species. Things like genetic science to improve our own forms removing genetic diseases and enhancing our bodies and minds would be very good we can them evolve our species through science. Or improve food production globally, hand out free birth control temporary and permanent to everyone, focus on art and culture or heck give everyone a three week vacation with pay would be of more use than say paying for religion.

So to me God if he exists should accept humans are now not believing and if he created us should have very well expected at some point we won’t need him anymore and let us grow as a species that is now an adult one. Like a parent whose child moved away from home and works and has a family. If he doesn’t like this then he should have been far more open and been active in the human condition with angels walking and flying around and gave us clear rules like you would children and kept us there.

My take anyway he would need to show himself, create a galaxy right next to ours full of life and do deeds beyond what an advance alien species would do as one example.

Are you an apatheist Christian, because there is a cross on your Display picture.

 

[Clevus]

I’m not sure what you mean. God could easily infuse the knowledge of creation from his perspective, allowing the person to see so clearly that it is true, that there would be no way for them to deny it.

This is actually exactly what will occur at the Last Judgement: all the damned will see so clearly that they deserve their punishment that none will be capable of arguing against it.

Why is perfect clarity reserved for the Last Judgement?. Since it’s use at this time is the only degree of clarity that ensures realization, why wasn’t it available throughout his life.?

 

[ericc]

Lets define God as the creator. How could God possibly prove that He is the creator considering the fact that the creation is done?

There is no one he need to prove it to as he has no other peers. We are included in his creation and not extra of it. There is no need to prove it to any of his created creatures. But he informed us that he did it. And he has performed several times in the past few thousand years that he is capable of doing it.

There are no other worthy claimants and the last “man” standing wins. No one else is saying God is an imposter.

 

[Thom18]

To do that, God would have to prove that He Himself is not a creation. So, He would have to prove His eternal nature. Something (or someone) that’s eternal has no beginning, so it (or they) would thus not be a creation.

 

[STT]

There is no one he need to prove it to as he has no other peers. We are included in his creation and not extra of it. There is no need to prove it to any of his created creatures. But he informed us that he did it. And he has performed several times in the past few thousand years that he is capable of doing it.

There are no other worthy claimants and the last “man” standing wins. No one else is saying God is an imposter.

There could be an imposter who claim that s/he is God. How could we know the truth?

 

[STT]

To do that, God would have to prove that He Himself is not a creation. So, He would have to prove His eternal nature. Something (or someone) that’s eternal has no beginning, so it (or they) would thus not be a creation.

That to me is even harder. Thanks for sharing your thought.