How has the Anglican Communion gone wrong?

[Anna_Scott]

As an aside, the nursing program is really frustrating my wife. She’s doing fine but so fed up with the lame questions on the tests that have NOTHING to do with the book and info they’re given! Here’s an example:

Test question she had today:

What is the best way to establish a helping relationship with a client?

a) knock on the door before entering their room

b) hold the patient’s hand

c) call them by their first name

d) being assertive

Which would you choose?

This sounds just like the questions on the State Board exams I took in 1976. I’m a retired RN. They are always looking for the best answer. Sometimes two answers are “good,” but only one is the “best” answer.

*A. Knocking is a way to show respect for their space.

NOT:
B. Do not touch a patient without her permission.

C. Many, especially the elderly and those of other cultures, do not appreciate being called by their first name.

D. Assertive? That’s not a great way to start a client relationship.*

So, did I give the correct answer?

I agree with you PRmerger. The interesting thing is that the answer to this question back in 1976 would probably have been “hold the patient’s hand.” They were big on the importance of human contact back in the “olden days.” lol. Things have changed, and there is more consideration for different cultures now, which is a good thing.

Anna

 

[JohnnyReb]

Thanks, Johnny. I just hope the Lord will be merciful on me.

And regarding your earlier post, I agree as to your analysis. The Orthodox view the Catholics with ??? basically. Their position is “we don’t know” (Ronald Reagan style!) if their (Catholic) sacraments convey grace or exist at all because they’re outside the true church in schism. They might or might not?" So they don’t respect the Catholics with that. Then the Catholics do the same thing to the Anglicans only in spades. “We KNOW you don’t have sacraments!” And only the Anglicans seem to respect both East and West. That’s what I always liked about the Anglicans. The Catholics reject the Anglican branch theory but accept the two lungs theory and the Orthodox reject lungs and branches. They don’t like lungs or branches—no breathing or photosynthesis as a result

Incidentally I appreciate you on here a great deal as well. Along with GKC, Anna, Sentry, Jharek, and a group of others, you are always one of the posters I take the time to look up and read. Always good thoughts.

Thats too funny. The Orthodox certainly don’t share the “respect” for the Catholics that the Catholics seem to show them. I have spoken with people on each side and they seem to blame the other side for this. Catholics say the Orthodox have become to rigid and are resisting their overtures for reunification. The Orthodox blame Catholicism for its heterdox developments and miltiant action towards them during the crusades.

As an aside, the nursing program is really frustrating my wife. She’s doing fine but so fed up with the lame questions on the tests that have NOTHING to do with the book and info they’re given! Here’s an example:

Test question she had today:

What is the best way to establish a helping relationship with a client?

a) knock on the door before entering their room

b) hold the patient’s hand

c) call them by their first name

d) being assertive

Which would you choose?

This whole discipline is about showing that you know how to use what you know, and until you get used to that, its frustrating. I feel her pain. I’m not used to it yet.

This sounds like a hard question to get around. There are multiple correct answers here. I would choose

A-because it most directly speaks to* establishing* the relationship prior to entering the room.

B-is a good choice, but you should ask before doing so or at least tell the patient and see if they object. Some pts will not be comfortable with this.

C-Some pts will allow you to call them by their first name, but you cannot assume that they will. I would ask the pt what they would like for me to call them or establish raport with them first.

D-is wrong only because we are looking to establish a *helping *relationship. True, a nurse must be assertive, but its not the first thing you do if you want to show that you are there to help.

I read further down and saw A as the answer, I think.

 

[masuwerte]

As an aside, the nursing program is really frustrating my wife. She’s doing fine but so fed up with the lame questions on the tests that have NOTHING to do with the book and info they’re given! Here’s an example:

Test question she had today:

What is the best way to establish a helping relationship with a client?

a) knock on the door before entering their room

b) hold the patient’s hand

c) call them by their first name

d) being assertive

Which would you choose?

I’m an X-Ray Tech, and I get this kind of thing in continuing ed all the time. It’s a reading question, and completely unnecessary unless they are testing to see if she read the assignment. It’s frustrating.

 

[masuwerte]

We’re sinful individuals who make mistakes, and most of us are trying to do the best we can.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The answer was: KNOCKING ON THE DOOR

See, I figured calling a person by their first name was the best way; my wife did, too. These tests are so subjective and goofy. It would be nice if they actually focused on medicine! LOL…It reminds me of my days in the credential program for teaching and in my coursework for my BA in education…a bunch of feel-good group hug junk…no substance like eating tofu with no seasoning uncooked! LOL

 

[Anna_Scott]

The answer was: KNOCKING ON THE DOOR

See, I figured calling a person by their first name was the best way; my wife did, too. These tests are so subjective and goofy. It would be nice if they actually focused on medicine! LOL…It reminds me of my days in the credential program for teaching and in my coursework for my BA in education…a bunch of feel-good group hug junk…no substance like eating tofu with no seasoning uncooked! LOL

Yes, knocking on the door as I thought. But like I said, the answer would have probably been different when I took my State Board exams back in 1976. They would probably say “holding the patient’s hand,” which is a big no-no, now. Sadly, your wife will have to get used to these kinds of questions. State Board Exams are full of them.

Anna

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Goofy

I wonder if Obama took a test like that?

Example:

When going to Japan and bowing to the Emperor, will this action

a) make the Emperor pleased and proud of you

b) show humility to a foreign dignitary

c) give the Republicans ammunition against you making you look like a cowering sell-out

d) all of the above

LOL

Yes, knocking on the door as I thought. But like I said, the answer would have probably been different when I took my State Board exams back in 1976. They would probably say “holding the patient’s hand,” which is a big no-no, now. Sadly, your wife will have to get used to these kinds of questions. State Board Exams are full of them.

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

Goofy

I wonder if Obama took a test like that?

Example:

When going to Japan and bowing to the Emperor, will this action

a) make the Emperor pleased and proud of you

b) show humility to a foreign dignitary

c) give the Republicans ammunition against you making you look like a cowering sell-out

d) all of the above

LOL

That’s a good one gurney! I think I’ll go with “C.”

Anna

 

[PRmerger]

The answer was: KNOCKING ON THE DOOR

See, I figured calling a person by their first name was the best way; my wife did, too.

Oh, no, no, no!

My dad, who was a doctor, and Filipino, talked quite a bit about a student nurse who came into his hospital room after he was recently diagnosed with cancer. She walked in and said, “Hi, Xavier!”.

That rubbed my very laid back father the wrong way, for so many reasons. #1) He was a doctor 2) No one even called him, “Xavier”. His Filipino name was “Pito” and his American friends and colleagues called him “Del”, which was the first part of his last name. He talked about this situation for many months afterwards.

Just sharing.

Of course, many different ways to look at this. And I see your point that the test question is really unhelpful to those learning how to "build a client relationship.’

 

[PRmerger]

Oh, no, no, no!

My dad, who was a doctor, and Filipino, talked quite a bit about a student nurse who came into his hospital room after he was recently diagnosed with cancer. She walked in and said, “Hi, Xavier!”.

That rubbed my very laid back father the wrong way, for so many reasons. #1) He was a doctor 2) No one even called him, “Xavier”. His Filipino name was “Pito” and his American friends and colleagues called him “Del”, which was the first part of his last name. ADDENDUM 3) He was very much older than this sweet young nurse, and in Filipino culture, older definitely means you get a title. He talked about this situation for many months afterwards.

Just sharing.

Of course, many different ways to look at this. And I see your point that the test question is really unhelpful to those learning how to "build a client relationship.’

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Every filipino has a title no matter what, even if they don’t fit the description!

Tito/tita
Bunso/Ate/Ading/Kuya
Lola/lolo
pamangkin

there’s always a title…In the Philippines all the kids call me “Tito Scott”
My wife’s sisters didn’t call me squat last time because they wanted to ring my neck. That was not a good trip last time! I’m still trying to forget it. Beyond the fact I got Typhoid Fever, the dealing with in-laws was far worse! Sheesh. I felt like I’d never get out of the Philippines. I felt like I was in the movie Midnight Express as Billy!

PRmerger:

 

[JohnnyReb]

Another evil nursing exam type of question-the pick all that apply. If you miss one, you miss the whole thing

The most proper and respectful thing to do when attending Mass is (check all that apply)

A) Listen intently during the Priest’s Homily

B) Not talking during the consecration of the Eucharist

C) Using the Holy Water to make the sign of the cross upon entering the sanctuary

D) Speaking really loudly in tongues before the service near those quietly saying the rosary.

E) when you see a nun, call her some pet name like hun, pumpkin, sweet thing or buttercup

F) Be in a state of grace when receiving the Eucharist

Any takers LOL

 

[PRmerger]

Every filipino has a title no matter what, even if they don’t fit the description!

Tito/tita
Bunso/Ate/Ading/Kuya
Lola/lolo
pamangkin

Don’t forget Kuyo/Kuya, (which means "big brother/sister to all you non-filipinos ), even if the person and you never shared a womb.

I have about 30 “brothers”, just on my mom’s side. I wouldn’t dream of calling anyone older than me in the Philippines by his first name–it’s always accompanied by “Big Brother”.

Which is why most ethnic folks don’t get all hung up with the "brothers of the Lord’ argument. We get that brothers is a title of kinship, not wombship.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I didn’t forget kuya, I put it in my list…see above!

Don’t forget Kuyo/Kuya, (which means "big brother/sister to all you non-filipinos ), even if the person and you never shared a womb.

I have about 30 “brothers”, just on my mom’s side. I wouldn’t dream of calling anyone older than me in the Philippines by his first name–it’s always accompanied by “Big Brother”.

Which is why most ethnic folks don’t get all hung up with the "brothers of the Lord’ argument. We get that brothers is a title of kinship, not wombship.

 

[PRmerger]

I didn’t forget kuya, I put it in my list…see above!

Yep, you did. My bad. And I don’t even know what I was thinking–“Ate” is Big Sister. Not Kuya.

But we are making the others’ eyes glaze over with such arcane dialogue, eh?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

My wife is Ilocana so they tend to use Ilocano terms in Baguio, where she’s from. They don’t say “Ate” so much really. They call the older sister “manang” and older brother “manong” but they say “kuya” a lot for some reason despite it being more a Tagalog term. I think of some of the terms they use so much. Kate’s mom always says “ah, galing! galing!” LOL

Yep, you did. My bad. And I don’t even know what I was thinking–“Ate” is Big Sister. Not Kuya.

But we are making the others’ eyes glaze over with such arcane dialogue, eh?

 

[rben20]

I’ve made my opinion clear that I think, due to the Dutch Touch and Polish Pat post Apostolicae Curae that I think the Anglicans do indeed, by and large, have apostolic succession and valid orders…

Gurney,

The Church has never recognized their orders, sacraments or any apostolic succesion. The only one that is recognized is the Orthodox Church. The Anglicans were not only in schism but heresy as well therefore invalid.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

rben,

We’ve covered this topic at length in here in the past. There is the argument, the one you are making, based on Apostolicae Curae from Pope Leo XIII that says Anglican orders are “absolutely null, utterly void.” Heresy was not the rationale behind the nullification statements of Leo. But in any case, what you’re ignoring is the subsequent developments that occured POST Apostolicae Curae (a.c.). The “Dutch Touch” with the Utrecht Old Catholic Church and the “Polish Pat” with the PNCC occurred well after A.C. was written. These co-consecrations, from the Anglican point of view, re-infused apostolic lines into almost all quarters of the Anglican Communion. And many of these communities had bishops who were ardent Anglo-Catholics who were in some ways more catholic and traditional than many novus ordo Vatican II bishops. So Anglicans look holistically at the matter.

If you want the specifics as to an argument that Leo XIII was wrong with A.C., talk to our resident expert in here, the venerable GKC, an Anglo-Catholic poster with a great deal of reading, knowledge, and insight into the document and its history. GKC might even tell you “it’s a long-time hobby of his” and that “history is complicated.” See if I’m right!

But in all fairness, it is a complicated issue. It’s slam dunk for most who just read the papal statement and close the matter, but if you read Saepius Officio, the official Anglican rebuttal to Apostolicae Curae, out of intellectual honesty, you have to be impressed with the Anglican arguments and the charity with which they address the pope and cardinals. It’s an impressive document IMO.
anglicanhistory.org/orders/saepius.pdf

Gurney,

The Church has never recognized their orders, sacraments or any apostolic succesion. The only one that is recognized is the Orthodox Church. The Anglicans were not only in schism but heresy as well therefore invalid.

 

[RyanBlack]

Gurney,

The Church has never recognized their orders, sacraments or any apostolic succesion. The only one that is recognized is the Orthodox Church. The Anglicans were not only in schism but heresy as well therefore invalid.

Actually, that’s not true. The Catholic Church recognizes the validity of the orders and sacraments (and Apostolic Succession) of the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church of the East, as well as that of the Orthodox Church. Furthermore, being in a state of schism does not equate with invalidity of orders; one might even make the same argue about being in a state of heresy (I don’t agree, but from the Catholic point of view, one could arge that the Assyrian Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox, and the Eastern Orthodox are all in a state of heresy, yet their order are valid, their sacraments are valid, and they have Apostolic Succession).

 

[crazzeto]

I’m not sure the Anglicans have a “crisis” from their point of view…that seems to be a caricature of the Anglican communion from their detractors and disidents.

Like many Friends, those Anglicans do not believe their view is contrary to scripture. Levitical prohibitions that seem to denounce homosexuality are seen as cultural. Leviticus states that the purpose of it’s writing was so Israel would not mimic their neighbors.

Pagan rites that included homosexuality as well as the practice of “womanizing” their captives by rape was prohibited. Neither Gensis,Leviticus or Romans deals with same sex relationship in a committed covenanted relationship. These were cultural prohibitions with no basis in modern understanding of sexuality and sexual orientation.

To impose such ancient views on modern humans is wrong. The Anglican communion and many “mainline” denominations no longer embrace an ancient and uninformed view of human sexuality.

Scripture is not “ignored”…just understood differently than most conservative believers understanding.

The issue of social justice for sexual minorities is addressed by the various communions, as well as the Society of Friends through social justice…not ancient sexual ethics dealing with paganism and religious rites.

It’s not like the new testament ignored the issue of Homosexuality. St. Paul was very clear and explicit. How exactly do you interprate "Rom 1:26 For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.
Rom 1:27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts, one towards another: men with men, working that which is filthy and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
Rom 1:28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient.
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness: full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity: whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Foolish, dissolute: without affection, without fidelity, without mercy.
Rom 1:32 Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death: and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them. "