How have lukewarm, lapsed, compromising Catholics affected your faith walk?

[setter]

This is more of a reflective question for serious Catholics regarding how lukewarm, lapsed, compromising Catholics have either positively or negatively impacted their faith walk? From my experience the aforementioned Catholics do not give much thought as to how their lower faith standards affect those attempting to live out their Catholic faith seriously.

 

[FCEGM]

This is more of a reflective question for serious Catholics regarding how lukewarm, lapsed, compromising Catholics have either positively or negatively impacted their faith walk? From my experience the aforementioned Catholics do not give much thought as to how their lower faith standards affect those attempting to live out their Catholic faith seriously.

My faith certainly hasn’t been lessened by encountering such Catholics; if anything, it’s made me pray and study more to be strengthened in my faith and acts as an encouragement to pray for those whose faith is weak (as I hope the stronger ones pray for me!). One area that comes to mind, though, is the liturgical life of the parish wherein one too often finds the homily rarely challenging all hearers to live in greater fidelity to Christ and His Church; there seems, rather, to be a hesitation to “call a spade a spade” in case someone gets his or her tender feelings hurt.

 

[manualman]

They have presented me with the temptation to be self-satisfied, to feel smug and generally made it easy to be lazy with my spiritual discipline and still sleep well at night. Of course, I tend towards such laziness anyways… Hardly anybody’s fault but my own. I need to get off my duff and build a real prayer life. Being orthodox is no substitute for knowing God.

 

[setter]

They have presented me with the temptation to be self-satisfied, to feel smug and generally made it easy to be lazy with my spiritual discipline and still sleep well at night. Of course, I tend towards such laziness anyways… Hardly anybody’s fault but my own. I need to get off my duff and build a real prayer life. Being orthodox is no substitute for knowing God.

I can relate to this experience as I tend to be competitive, and when I scan my horizons and see only the less than serious Catholics about me, my tendency is to slack off on the accelorator of spiritual disciplines. To apply an analogy, like any competitive sport my game is maintained and improved by competitors at or beyond my game level.

 

[Mijoy2]

Having reverted back to the faith apporoximately 3-4 years ago now, I’d have to admit that lukewarm\cold-as-ice, catholics certainly have an effect on my faith.

I’d say this effect is two-fold. One, they give me cause to question my own orthodoxy. I witness them giving very little to no thought towards thier faith and I often ask myself if I am the one who is mistaken in that I take my faith seriously.

On the other hand, having journeyed through a tremedous change in my life I wonder “why me” and me alone? (relatively speaking – with respect to my own family and friends). Why was I hit over my head with the faith sledge hammer and nobody else even felt the breeze? I see my family and friends, see them growing older (like myself), see others dying in our midst resulting in our meeting each other at wakes and funerals yet I see NO CHANGE in thier respective attitudes towards thier faith.

I’m constantly asking why? Why and how do so few (as a whole) ever seem to have a conversion experience and yet I did? Was it my circumstances? Was it because I was in fact more sinful then many/most of my friends and family and I needed an awakening more?

Or, is it because I am wrong, and they are correct and we have no real tangable way of knowing what is Truth, therefore we should just enjoy the ride. And enjoy the ride, they do!!

 

[gmarie21]

Having reverted back to the faith apporoximately 3-4 years ago now, I’d have to admit that lukewarm\cold-as-ice, catholics certainly have an effect on my faith.

I’d say this effect is two-fold. One, they give me cause to question my own orthodoxy. I witness them giving very little to no thought towards thier faith and I often ask myself if I am the one who is mistaken in that I take my faith seriously.

On the other hand, having journeyed through a tremedous change in my life I wonder “why me” and me alone? (relatively speaking – with respect to my own family and friends). Why was I hit over my head with the faith sledge hammer and nobody else even felt the breeze? I see my family and friends, see them growing older (like myself), see others dying in our midst resulting in our meeting each other at wakes and funerals yet I see NO CHANGE in thier respective attitudes towards thier faith.

I’m constantly asking why? Why and how do so few (as a whole) ever seem to have a conversion experience and yet I did? Was it my circumstances? Was it because I was in fact more sinful then many/most of my friends and family and I needed an awakening more?

Or, is it because I am wrong, and they are correct and we have no real tangable way of knowing what is Truth, therefore we should just enjoy the ride. And enjoy the ride, they do!!

I feel the same way, why am I the only family member who actually seems to care about my soul? My one major fault is that I am lazy in praying for the souls of my family members.

 

[porriwiggle]

The person most likely to affect your faith is your priest. A saintly priest will have a holy congregation, a holy priest will have a good congregation, but a ‘liberal’ priest will generally have an indifferent congregation.

I do not know who originally wrote that but I have found it very true. If I go to a church where the priest is lukewarm or even heretical (I have met a few) I don’t go back. The parish is unlikely to have a large number of sound Catholics in it - they have mostly gone to another parish.

 

[water]

I’m constantly asking why? Why and how do so few (as a whole) ever seem to have a conversion experience and yet I did? Was it my circumstances? Was it because I was in fact more sinful then many/most of my friends and family and I needed an awakening more?

Or, is it because I am wrong, and they are correct and we have no real tangable way of knowing what is Truth, therefore we should just enjoy the ride. And enjoy the ride, they do!!

It will take us sometime to pray and ask God for help. He will show us how merciful He is to us and let us understand why He has done great things for us.

Like you, I had had the similar questions. Time after time, I’ve realized why/how He did not give up on me for many reasons - of course, God’s plan is beyond our knowledge, I cannot understand fully though, but …here are a few:

• by the power of prayers of those in our own family and at your church, all over the world, and of course those in Heaven.
• by blessings that God has given to our ancestors - such as your great grandparents, grandparents, your own parents. In my case, my mom has always prayed for me and encourage me to pray.
• although we are sinful, but God see something good in you and make you better out of your goodness.
• by your own obedience - I used to pray 10 Hail Mary’s just of the sake of my mom’s wish. Now, I’ve realized that our Virgin Mary has been always looking after us.
• by your desire and will of wanting to get closer to God -
• less but not least, by His great Mercy.

Did you know that Fr. John Corapi listened to his own mom to pray 1 Hail Mary per day when He was a homeless man? That was how His Soul got saved.

 

[Island_Oak]

Why does this post remind me of that well-worn George Orwell quote…“all pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others…”?

I think we are treading on dangerous ground when we embrace enough pride to suggest any one of us is more pure, more devout or more worthy than another of our brothers or sisters in the faith. We all sin, we all struggle with teachings and we all stumble from time to time. No one knows our hearts but God. We are here to vent frustrations, teach, strategize, support, occasionally reprimand, correct and forgive. IMHO anything beyond that is judging, which not one of us is qualified nor invited to do.

 

[setter]

Why does this post remind me of that well-worn George Orwell quote…“all pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others…”?

I think we are treading on dangerous ground when we embrace enough pride to suggest any one of us is more pure, more devout or more worthy than another of our brothers or sisters in the faith. We all sin, we all struggle with teachings and we all stumble from time to time. No one knows our hearts but God. We are here to vent frustrations, teach, strategize, support, occasionally reprimand, correct and forgive. IMHO anything beyond that is judging, which not one of us is qualified nor invited to do.

The inevitable “judge not lest you be judged” admonishment. This thread is for the serious Catholic (versus the non-serious Catholic) as distinguished by self-evaluation and differentiated by the obvious signs of lapsing, compromise and lukewarmness. The effects of the non-serious Catholic is a reality that any serious Catholic regularly bumps into. Why should the serious Catholic be deprived of mutual support and validation? Are you offended by the term “serious Catholic”? I do not mean to imply any disrespect or offense or convey any pride or judgmentalism.

 

[Cam-masta]

Why does this post remind me of that well-worn George Orwell quote…“all pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others…”?

I think we are treading on dangerous ground when we embrace enough pride to suggest any one of us is more pure, more devout or more worthy than another of our brothers or sisters in the faith. We all sin, we all struggle with teachings and we all stumble from time to time. No one knows our hearts but God. We are here to vent frustrations, teach, strategize, support, occasionally reprimand, correct and forgive. IMHO anything beyond that is judging, which not one of us is qualified nor invited to do.

God is a God of compassion and understanding, who alone knows our human frailty to the fullest extent. Some Catholics are holier than others, living in the joy and beauty of the Beatitudes and others struggle to do so. We should never look down on the lukewarm because often we are the same! Some of us accept Church teaching and hold to orthodoxy in our minds, yet our hearts tell another story. Others struggle with Church teaching, yet thrive in many virtues. Then there are Catholics who have lapsed completely. These need compassion, understanding, and for other faithful to build relationships with them, which can win them back to Christ and His Church. What they do not need is other faithful looking down on them with a holier than thou attitude, common in most Fundamentalist churches (I know, because I was one!) The ideal would be to hold to orthodoxy in mind living it out with our hearts as the Saints have done, and while doing this having the love of Christ who comforts the sinner and humbles the proud.

 

[Kendy]

The inevitable “judge not lest you be judged” admonishment. This thread is for the serious Catholic (versus the non-serious Catholic) as distinguished by self-evaluation and differentiated by the obvious signs of lapsing, compromise and lukewarmness. The effects of the non-serious Catholic is a reality that any serious Catholic regularly bumps into. Why should the serious Catholic be deprived of mutual support and validation? Are you offended by the term “serious Catholic”? I do not mean to imply any disrespect or offense or convey any pride or judgmentalism.

Perhaps, it would clear things up if you defined what you mean by “serious.” I certainly know catholics who woulf not meet my definition of serious, but then again, I might not meet everyone definition of serious.

Anywho, I think a little elaboration would help.

Kendy

 

[Island_Oak]

The inevitable “judge not lest you be judged” admonishment.

As I recall, this was a very serious admonishment, with very serious consequences, but perhaps that’s true just for serious Catholics?

This thread is for the serious Catholic (versus the non-serious Catholic) as distinguished by self-evaluation and differentiated by the obvious signs of lapsing, compromise and lukewarmness. The effects of the non-serious Catholic is a reality that any serious Catholic regularly bumps into. Why should the serious Catholic be deprived of mutual support and validation?

So what you’re really saying is that the level of pride it takes to allow you to even write something like this isn’t to you an “obvious sign” of your non-seriousness?!

Are you offended by the term “serious Catholic”? I do not mean to imply any disrespect or offense or convey any pride or judgmentalism.

I am not offended by labels or terms. I am offended by the people who are brash enough to slap them on others. In this case, I am offended by you.

 

[Kendy]

I think one of the things to keep in mind is what we may consider compromising may be a stage in someone’s journey. Two years ago, I could not imagine living a single chaste life, and a year ago, I cried at the thought that I wouldn’t be able to use birth control. Neither of these are issues for me anymore. Someone might have encountered me at any of these stages and thought I was lukewarm, but what they could not see is that I was praying, and studying, and that God was working on me.

And when I find myself being frustrated because someone is not living up to my expectation, it’s helpful for me remember where I came from and how God molds me daily into greater “seriousness.”

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

As I recall, this was a very serious admonishment, with very serious consequences, but perhaps that’s true just for serious Catholics?

So what you’re really saying is that the level of pride it takes to allow you to even write something like this isn’t to you an “obvious sign” of your non-seriousness?!

I am not offended by labels or terms. I am offended by the people who are brash enough to slap them on others. In this case, I am offended by you.

That was cold, dude.

 

[setter]

Perhaps, it would clear things up if you defined what you mean by “serious.” I certainly know catholics who woulf not meet my definition of serious, but then again, I might not meet everyone definition of serious.

Anywho, I think a little elaboration would help.

Kendy

As a humble sinner, I leave it up to the individual to determine whether they are a serious Catholic or not – “This thread is for the serious Catholic (versus the non-serious Catholic) as distinguished by self-evaluation …”. After a while, “serious Catholic” takes on little fanfare and much grit as well worn jacket that has weathered more than a few storms internal and external and but by the grace of God tries to daily walk faithfully with Christ the Church.

 

[Island_Oak]

I think one of the things to keep in mind is what we may consider compromising may be a stage in someone’s journey. Two years ago, I could not imagine living a single chaste life, and a year ago, I cried at the thought that I wouldn’t be able to use birth control. Neither of these are issues for me anymore. Someone might have encountered me at any of these stages and thought I was lukewarm, but what they could not see is that I was praying, and studying, and that God was working on me.

And when I find myself being frustrated because someone is not living up to my expectation, it’s helpful for me remember where I came from and how God molds me daily into greater “seriousness.”

Kendy

Very well said. (and FYI–at 5’4," long hair and mother of 3, I’m not usually what comes to mind when one thinks of “dude.”)

 

[Kendy]

As a humble sinner, I leave it up to the individual to determine whether they are a serious Catholic or not – “This thread is for the serious Catholic (versus the non-serious Catholic) as distinguished by self-evaluation …”. After a while, “serious Catholic” takes on little fanfare and much grit as well worn jacket that has weathered more than a few storms internal and external and but by the grace of God tries to daily walk faithfully with Christ the Church.

As much as I hate to do this, I am going to have to agree with you somewhat… a little bit.

I find it difficult not having a community of people who challenge me. I do wish I had more people to pray with, more people to offer me their support.

I also get frustrated when my protestant friends say, every other catholic I know does X because I know they are telling the truth. I do feel like what it means to be catholic has been watered down in the mind of the public, and every obstinate pro-abortionist can claim to be a “faithful” catholic. But this only frustrates me. It doesn’t affect my practice. I only wish our bishops would do something, but that’s their call.

Kendy

Kendy

 

[setter]

As I recall, this was a very serious admonishment, with very serious consequences, but perhaps that’s true just for serious Catholics?

Perhaps, as Jesus did say, “Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required;” Luke 12: 48

So what you’re really saying is that the level of pride it takes to allow you to even write something like this isn’t to you an “obvious sign” of your non-seriousness?!

By “obvious sign” I was referring to the visible, tangible evidence of lukewarmness, compromise and lapsed behavior on the part of those folks who consider themselves part of the Catholic community. A few examples: Pro-choice (i.e., pro-death) candidate stickers on the bumpers of cars in the Church perking lot; praying for all those folks not occupying the empty pews each Sunday for their spiriutal awakening/return to the fold; the scandalous statistics of Catholics who use ABC; the high rates of divorce amongst sacramentally married Catholics; the co-habitating young raised Catholic couple; …

I am not offended by labels or terms. I am offended by the people who are brash enough to slap them on others. In this case, I am offended by you.

I am only guilty of labelling myself a “serious Catholic” by the stripes of grace hard earned. Why the personal offense?

 

[Della]

For those who wish to have relationships with other Catholics who are serious about practicing the faith, why not start/look for an orthodox study/prayer group or look into entering a lay order? There are ways of getting support for your spiritual life if you want to find them.