How important is it that Eastern Catholics do the sign of the cross different than Western Catholics?

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Left to right:
  • Oriental Orthodox
  • Oriental Catholics
  • Syro-Malabarese Catholics (despite common origins with the Assyrians, ACE, and Chaldeans)
  • Maronite Catholics
  • Latin Catholics
Right to left:
  • Eastern Orthodox
  • Old Ritualists
  • Byzantine Catholics
  • Chaldean Catholics
  • Assyrians
  • Ancient Church of the East
Don’t think I left anyone out. As to the particular configurations in which the hand is posed - that is another whole story - and I lack the energy tonight to address it.

Many years,

Neil
 
at this time, the latin catholics do the sign of the cross using 5 fingers, reflecting the 5 wounds of the Lord.
Irish_Melkite said:
Left to right:
  • Oriental Orthodox
  • Oriental Catholics
  • Syro-Malabarese Catholics (despite common origins with the Assyrians, ACE, and Chaldeans)
  • Maronite Catholics
  • Latin Catholics
Right to left:
  • Eastern Orthodox
  • Old Ritualists
  • Byzantine Catholics
  • Chaldean Catholics
  • Assyrians
  • Ancient Church of the East
Don’t think I left anyone out. As to the particular configurations in which the hand is posed - that is another whole story - and I lack the energy tonight to address it.

Many years,

Neil
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marlo said:
at this time, the latin catholics do the sign of the cross using 5 fingers, reflecting the 5 wounds of the Lord.
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This is not an apologetic issue, so I hope I can discuss it here.

I guess brother Alexius is correct in his observation. But, then again, I have observed the two-finger/thumb configuration from the Latins more than the 5-finger configuration. I guess there are different configurations in the Latin Church?

My Filipina, Latin-Catholic wife told me that all she has ever known is the two-finger/thumb configuration which she learned from her parents.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
marlo said:
at this time, the latin catholics do the sign of the cross using 5 fingers, reflecting the 5 wounds of the Lord.
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While I’ve not been a Latin for about 4 decades now, I am from a large family of them - I recollect few of them using the configuration that you describe. Both the 2 finger/thumb and 1 finger/thumb are frequent in my experience - the former the more so.

Many years,

Neil, who does not recollect that the good sisters ever directed a particular hand configuration be used 🤷
 
😃 😃
I just realized something. Our hand only has 4 fingers (and one thumb). Truly, I have never seen the five-finger configuration. That would mean the Latin Catholic would have to use two hands to make the sign of the cross!
:rotfl:

Blessings
 
mardukm said:
It’s been explained to me that the significance of the direction reflects the direction Christianity spread - from “East” to “West” (right to left) - also analogized by the direction of the Sun rising from East to West. I guess when Christians in the West found themselves facing East, the mirror image would be left to right, which accounts for the change in direction.

I could be wrong, but I believe the Armenians also sign the same way the Latins do it. Perhaps Oriental Christianity in general is reflective of its unspoken status as the “middle way” within apostolic Christianity (no knock to the Anglicans who claim “middle way” status within Western Christendom 😃 )
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Oops! Sorry, but I forgot to mention the rationale behind the Oriental practice of left-to-right. It is to signify the reality that as Christians we are taken from death to life.

Is this the same reason that Latins do it?

Blessings
 
Does doing it one way or another change or improve your life? 🤷 Or is it like a secret handshake to identify which club you belong to?:confused:
 
Byzcat said:
OK.

The proper way to do it is to bring the thumb and index fingers together, representing the Trinity, with the third and fourth fingers folded against the palm, representing the hypostatic union of God and man in Christ. You cross from right to left.

Get with the program, people.:rolleyes:

drattedcrossingyourselvesbackwardlatinswhohavetoanalyzeeverythingtodeathandmakelistsandcategoriesandpronouncedogmaoneverynitpickylittletheologicaldetailandusethreedimensionalstatuesinsteadoficonslikedecentproperChristiansdo.
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Lol. Regaring your last (spaceless) paragraph, isn’t the east more nitpicky about the details of the sign (as you demonstrated)? Finger positions, direction. Can I get a touche’? 😉 My Orthodox in-laws are the only ones I have ever heard get nitpicky about the way others do it.

But seriously I love the eastern way and sign myself with the same hand positions as you. Of course I go left to right if in a latin church. I actually learned to sign right to left from the Lutherans.
 
So the moral of the story is: All the ways are beautiful and all reflect a beautiful symbolism.

Btw, the most ancient practice was simply a small cross made in the forehead with the right thumb. So we are all innovators! 😉

Mel
 
Melchior said:
So the moral of the story is: All the ways are beautiful and all reflect a beautiful symbolism.

Btw, the most ancient practice was simply a small cross made in the forehead with the right thumb. So we are all innovators! 😉

Mel
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Amen to that!

I think you are referring to the practice of the earliest Christians (and of the Apostles?) using triple signage of the cross (1) on the forehead, (2) on the lips, and (3) on the heart in one sweep.

This triple signage continues to this day in the Latin Church during Holy Mass prior to the reading and proclamation of the Gospel for the day.
 
mardukm said:
😃 😃
I just realized something. Our hand only has 4 fingers (and one thumb). Truly, I have never seen the five-finger configuration. That would mean the Latin Catholic would have to use two hands to make the sign of the cross!
:rotfl:

Blessings
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Medically, you have 5 fingers.
 
My mother always told me the middle finger was used to dip into the holy water, and that’s why we cross ourselves with that finger… with an open hand.

I am the only Catholic at my husband’s Eastern Orthodox Church. The Archbishop makes great efforts to convert me, but my husband told him to watch for how I crossed myself. If I crossed myself left to right, I was still a practicing Catholic. At every service, I feel like all eyes are on me when I cross myself though :eek: 😃

Many of the wives at my husband’s church are former Catholics. They are now taking my lead, and wearing Catholic head coverings instead of babushkas… and I have no doubt, some will start crossing themselves left to right again. 😃
 
Redthunder64 said:
My mother always told me the middle finger was used to dip into the holy water, and that’s why we cross ourselves with that finger… with an open hand.

I am the only Catholic at my husband’s Eastern Orthodox Church. The Archbishop makes great efforts to convert me, but my husband told him to watch for how I crossed myself. If I crossed myself left to right, I was still a practicing Catholic. At every service, I feel like all eyes are on me when I cross myself though :eek: 😃

Many of the wives at my husband’s church are former Catholics. They are now taking my lead, and wearing Catholic head coverings instead of babushkas… and I have no doubt, some will start crossing themselves left to right again. 😃
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Judging from what you have told us, you have certainly chosen an appropriate handle, sister!👍

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Thank you very much. I do tend to cause a stir from time to time… but in a good way, I hope. 😃

Shawnee
 
The Sign of the Cross is rich in symbolism.

From my understanding, in regards to the order of the shoulders, the left is associated with darkness and death, and the right symbolizes light and truth. Left to right represents a transition from misery to glory, from death to life, and from hell to paradise. Christ passed from death to life and is seated and the right hand of the Father (which is why we use our right hand, as well). This is so we too, by the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, may pass from death to life in Christ.

That was weird, that just kinda popped into my head :confused:
 
mardukm said:
😃 😃
I just realized something. Our hand only has 4 fingers (and one thumb). Truly, I have never seen the five-finger configuration. That would mean the Latin Catholic would have to use two hands to make the sign of the cross!
:rotfl:

Blessings
Click to expand...
Oh, sure, confuse the issue even more.😛
 
BTW, Marduk, I’ve been meaning to ask…

does Tiamat, our mother, still hate us?
 
Byzcat said:
BTW, Marduk, I’ve been meaning to ask…

does Tiamat, our mother, still hate us?
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Aaaargh! 😃 Tiamat no longer hates us. She imbues everything in creation. I made sure of that when I carved her up and used her body to form the heavens and the earth!

BTW, Marduk IS my real name.🙂 I am of Egyptian/Persian descent.

Blessings
 
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