How important should a woman's career aspirations be when choosing a partner?

[ac_claire]

The justifications for women staying at home and doing the overwhelming part of the housework seem to be more of a product of a culture where women are considered to be intellectually, physically, and emotionally incapable of professional achievement, and frankly intended by God only for the purpose of domestic work and childbearing.

My only problem with this is you seem to be positioning “professional acheivement” as the established standard for success in life. So that if a woman doesn’t excel in the workforce. well then she hasn’t quite actualized her potential in the best way even though it may be all well and good that she’s a competent wife, mother, homekeeper, etc. Not saying that that’s your position, but the clear implication is that domestic housework, childbearing, etc. isn’t as worthy a calling as this vague “professional acheivement”…

What about someone like me? I’m very intelligent…I was one of the ones labeled “gifted” from the time I was a child and my IQ is near or at the genius level. Not boasting, just stating the facts. I excelled in school and I’ve been an excellent employee at some very “good” jobs. I love to read and learn and to interact with people.

However…I only work now because I have to to pay the bills. I have never had any career ambitions other than being a housewife and mother. Not all women are exactly like me, I realize that. But that’s how I am and I can tell you there are lots and lots of us out there.

It seems that if this is what God intended, he would have made women quite differently.

How would He have made us differently…? God has designed our bodies for motherhood. He has geared our natures, intuition and empathy toward interpersonal relations. He has given us strong organizational and nesting instincts to keep a home. (By the same token He’s built men with instincts to provide and protect.) I’m not saying there’s only one way that a woman can utilize her essential nature to lead a fulfilling life…But if a woman is going to be truly successful in any occupation or vocation it’ll be because she is actualizing the potential of her God-given nature, in some way. God definitley did design women (and men!) a certain way and He knew what He was doing.

 

[sharmin]

Our relationship with God is always first in our lives, right? So whatever our vocation is, that flows from that relationship with God. If we are called to marriage, marriage comes first for both husband and wife above all else (kids, extended families, career). Once a woman is married, that vocation of wife and mother (if God wills) comes above all else. Her number one priority should be her family. That does not rule out college and career, but it puts them on a back burner.

If that’s the case, then NO spouse should work! How are people supposed to survive without income?

So, if we’re talking about a college-age woman who is getting married soon, then no, I don’t think she should aspire to career until her motherhood days are over or unless they cannot have children. There is plenty of time in her lifespan and also now there will be time in her schedule left after the children are grown to pursue her further education and career. With average life expentancies, she would have at least 30 years at her disposal.

What if her husband dies? My best friend is a 33 year old widow. Thank GOD she is educated enough to get a job,

 

[sarahraegraham]

My only problem with this is you seem to be positioning “professional acheivement” as the established standard for success in life. So that if a woman doesn’t excel in the workforce. well then she hasn’t quite actualized her potential in the best way even though it may be all well and good that she’s a competent wife, mother, homekeeper, etc. Not saying that that’s your position, but the clear implication is that domestic housework, childbearing, etc. isn’t as worthy a calling as this vague “professional acheivement”…

What about someone like me? I’m very intelligent…I was one of the ones labeled “gifted” from the time I was a child and my IQ is near or at the genius level. Not boasting, just stating the facts. I excelled in school and I’ve been an excellent employee at some very “good” jobs. I love to read and learn and to interact with people.

However…I only work now because I have to to pay the bills. I have never had any career ambitions other than being a housewife and mother. Not all women are exactly like me, I realize that. But that’s how I am and I can tell you there are lots and lots of us out there.

How would He have made us differently…? God has designed our bodies for motherhood. He has geared our natures, intuition and empathy toward interpersonal relations. He has given us strong organizational and nesting instincts to keep a home. (By the same token He’s built men with instincts to provide and protect.) I’m not saying there’s only one way that a woman can utilize her essential nature to lead a fulfilling life…But if a woman is going to be truly successful in any occupation or vocation it’ll be because she is actualizing the potential of her God-given nature, in some way. God definitley did design women (and men!) a certain way and He knew what He was doing.

I agree with everything you’ve said here. I’m also in a similar position (high IQ, excellent grades, excellent job performance, etc.) Every single job I’ve had my employers loved me. Just stating a fact. I worked hard, got the jobs done well and very quickly and I never complained, even offered to help others after I was done all the time. *However *I have never been comfortable in the workforce. I’ve felt personal achievement and pride from a job well done, but it just never felt right. I don’t know how else to describe it. I’ve never been one who just wanted to be a wife and mother either. I didn’t grow with guidance on life’s path, so I just did whatever seemed like the right thing to do, which in this culture is to work, especially with no children. But now (even if we never have children) I want to be at home. I’m in school during the academic year and will be for the next few years, but when the terms are over, I’m home full-time and hope to be for a long time unless it becomes necessary for me to earn money. *This *is what feels right to me.

 

[sarahraegraham]

If that’s the case, then NO spouse should work! How are people supposed to survive without income?

Please don’t take my words out of context and try to start an argument/debate from that.

What if her husband dies? My best friend is a 33 year old widow. Thank GOD she is educated enough to get a job,

Re-read my post. I think I already covered that. There are always exceptions, and some people may be able to both have a job (not a career, which is what the thread is about) and raise children. But again, my personal opinion is that it is irresponsible to attempt to have a “career” and raise children. While her circumstances are unfortunate, proper planning by both herself and her husband would provide for her in this circumstance. They should have planned life insurance properly, had a will in place, etc. All of these things could provide so that, until such time that she could get any education she might need taken care of, they will survive. This is also what family is for. Remember, we’re supposed to care for the widows and orphans, not just leave them on their own.

 

[sharmin]

Please don’t take my words out of context and try to start an argument/debate from that.

I was making a joke. I am sorry that wasn’t clearer. I should have put a smiley.

Re-read my post. I think I already covered that. There are always exceptions, and some people may be able to both have a job (not a career, which is what the thread is about) and raise children. But again, my personal opinion is that it is irresponsible to attempt to have a “career” and raise children. While her circumstances are unfortunate, proper planning by both herself and her husband would provide for her in this circumstance. They should have planned life insurance properly, had a will in place, etc. All of these things could provide so that, until such time that she could get any education she might need taken care of, they will survive. This is also what family is for. Remember, we’re supposed to care for the widows and orphans, not just leave them on their own.

Well, if she had been out of the workforce for 7 years, she would never have had gotten a job in this economy. Also, they did not have life insurance. Not because of improper planning, but right before he died, he lost his job and her hours were cut to part time. They lost their house, and (needless to say) life insurance. Thank God she had a career, because about after he died, she was able to find enough work to help her raise her kids. I think it’s wonderful for women to continuously make themselves “marketable” because who knows what tragedy might fall on someone?

 

[sharmin]

But again, my personal opinion is that it is irresponsible to attempt to have a “career” and raise children. .

Actually, I believe it can be irresponsible to NOT have a career and raise children. AND, while I was joking, in a sense I’m right. Why do you suggest a mother is not a good mother if she works but a father is a good father if he does? That doesn’t make sense to me.

Looking back, I change my mind. Although I was saying it in a joking way, I shouldn’t have meant it as a joke. Look back on what you said:

If we are called to marriage, marriage comes first for both husband and wife above all else (kids, extended families, career). Once a woman is married, that vocation of wife and mother (if God wills) comes above all else. Her number one priority should be her family. That does not rule out college and career, but it puts them on a back burner.

Do you think a husband who works does not put HIS marriage first? Are you a father? Do you work? Does your job come before your marriage? If not, why do you assume it would be different for a mother?

 

[Em_in_FL]

OP - as you can see, this is a heated subject amongst Catholic women… you’re playing with fire, my friend.

There is a broad range of how women fit into society - and everyone along the spectrum wants moral, spiritual, and ethical justification for their lot in life. We all work very hard in our own unique ways and can pull apart all teachings of the faith to justify our sacrifice and yet we’ll get no where in this conversation because there is no one single answer to how we all should fit into society.

Yes, YOU may be able to stay home and think that it’s God’s call for ALL women.
Or, YOU may be the working mother trying to makes ends meat in this economy.
Or, YOU may be the 2-income family, working together as partners.

There is not one single path for us all. We are CATHOLIC - that word alone translates to UNIVERSAL - all-encompassing. Any path can be taken in a moral, ethical, and spiritual fashion… we just have to find the path that God has planned for us. Please don’t tear each other down… it serves no purpose.

 

[sharmin]

OP - as you can see, this is a heated subject amongst Catholic women… you’re playing with fire, my friend.

There is a broad range of how women fit into society - and everyone along the spectrum wants moral, spiritual, and ethical justification for their lot in life. We all work very hard in our own unique ways and can pull apart all teachings of the faith to justify our sacrifice and yet we’ll get no where in this conversation because there is no one single answer to how we all should fit into society.

Yes, YOU may be able to stay home and think that it’s God’s call for ALL women.
Or, YOU may be the working mother trying to makes ends meat in this economy.
Or, YOU may be the 2-income family, working together as partners.

There is not one single path for us all. We are CATHOLIC - that word alone translates to UNIVERSAL - all-encompassing. Any path can be taken in a moral, ethical, and spiritual fashion… we just have to find the path that God has planned for us. Please don’t tear each other down… it serves no purpose.

Very true.

 

[SMHW]

OP - as you can see, this is a heated subject amongst Catholic women… you’re playing with fire, my friend.

…which is precisely why this thread says this is about CHOOSING a partner.

There are plenty of unexpected things that happen after a couple is married which require the restructuring of a family’s lifestyle. That’s been the case since there were such things as families.

But when a couple is discerning marriage then they can afford to be a lot more selective. This is the time to discuss such things as whether the woman (or man) will work or stay home with the children full or part-time. Does either party expect to assume responsibility for extended family in the event of a problem? Does either party have a career (or career goal) which will require a lot of time away from the home or an odd schedule? (Examples include the military, professional sports, sales representative, transportation, top executive, entertainment industry…)

One’s potential marriage partner can generally be a wonderful person. But if he or she has plans to pursue a career which conflicts with one’s own vision of married life, then this is (I’m stealing a line from Dr. Laura) just not a match.

 

[sharmin]

…which is precisely why this thread says this is about CHOOSING a partner.

There are plenty of unexpected things that happen after a couple is married which require the restructuring of a family’s lifestyle. That’s been the case since there were such things as families.

But when a couple is discerning marriage then they can afford to be a lot more selective. This is the time to discuss such things as whether the woman (or man) will work or stay home with the children full or part-time. Does either party expect to assume responsibility for extended family in the event of a problem? Does either party have a career (or career goal) which will require a lot of time away from the home or an odd schedule? (Examples include the military, professional sports, sales representative, transportation, top executive, entertainment industry…)

very true!
One’s potential marriage partner can generally be a wonderful person. But if he or she

has plans to pursue a career which conflicts with one’s own vision of married life, then this is (I’m stealing a line from Dr. Laura) just not a match.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I agree with the SMHW…and EM as well.

I think it would be kind of weird for lack of a better word, if a guy told a woman he was dating to not ever pursue a career, if she wanted to marry him. When we marry, we become one flesh, but we don’t lose our idenity as individuals. I think that in this economy especially, it is wise for both spouses to have something they can fall back on, in case money becomes tight or one of the spouses find themselves unemployed.

I also think that our best laid plans can have monkey wrenches thrown into them. I was a SAHM, but my husband was laid off earlier in our marriage, and I went back to work, to help provide for the family, until he found gainful employment again. I think it’s important for spouses to realize that life throws us many curve balls, and if we are too rigid in our expectations, we might not deal with those challenges very well. It’s good to have solid expectations in a marriage, but we also need to be ready to be flexible, should a curve ball come our way.

Just my thoughts. *

 

[GraceDK]

Should she have a career of her own? How ambitious should she be? I know it’s different for each person, but I just wanted to hear some opinions. Thanks in advance!

Personally I would not want someone who would prefer a woman without education.
He has to understand that a womans work might be as important for her as his is for him.
work and family should be a shared project.
A woman is not a role. She is an individual.
I dont want to marry a workaholic, someone who breeds but who is never around the children. I missed my own father quite alot when I grew up. So in choosing a father for my children I want to have someone who wants to be a dad. My vision is that we both work out… at times more at times less, both of us, for the sake of the family.

 

[whatevergirl]

Personally I would not want someone who would prefer a woman without education.
He has to understand that a womans work might be as important for her as his is for him.
work and family should be a shared project.
A woman is not a role. She is an individual.
I dont want to marry a workaholic, someone who breeds but who is never around the children. I missed my own father quite alot when I grew up. So in choosing a father for my children I want to have someone who wants to be a dad. My vision is that we both work out… at times more at times less, both of us, for the sake of the family.

Well said.

 

[flyingfish]

My only problem with this is you seem to be positioning “professional acheivement” as the established standard for success in life. So that if a woman doesn’t excel in the workforce. well then she hasn’t quite actualized her potential in the best way even though it may be all well and good that she’s a competent wife, mother, homekeeper, etc. Not saying that that’s your position, but the clear implication is that domestic housework, childbearing, etc. isn’t as worthy a calling as this vague “professional acheivement”…

Not all women (or men for that matter) have a lot of potential. I don’t see anything wrong with saying that being a doctor is a bigger accomplishment than being a housewife.

Look at the people we consider to have made huge contributions to humanity: Mother Teresa, Einstein, Pasteur, Mozart. What is so wrong with saying that these people have dome something far more worthy than housework?

Obviously most people aren’t geniuses, but many still make important contributions to society.

What about someone like me? I’m very intelligent…I was one of the ones labeled “gifted” from the time I was a child and my IQ is near or at the genius level. Not boasting, just stating the facts. I excelled in school and I’ve been an excellent employee at some very “good” jobs. I love to read and learn and to interact with people.

However…I only work now because I have to to pay the bills. I have never had any career ambitions other than being a housewife and mother. Not all women are exactly like me, I realize that. But that’s how I am and I can tell you there are lots and lots of us out there.

You may not want to be anything other than a housewife and mother, but why do you think God made you gifted and gave you near-genius IQ? Do you think in doing that God intended for you to spend the large portion of your life doing domestic chores and never using your exceptional intelligence?

How would He have made us differently…? God has designed our bodies for motherhood. He has geared our natures, intuition and empathy toward interpersonal relations. He has given us strong organizational and nesting instincts to keep a home. (By the same token He’s built men with instincts to provide and protect.) I’m not saying there’s only one way that a woman can utilize her essential nature to lead a fulfilling life…But if a woman is going to be truly successful in any occupation or vocation it’ll be because she is actualizing the potential of her God-given nature, in some way. God definitley did design women (and men!) a certain way and He knew what He was doing.

God designed women for motherhood and men for fatherhood. But God did not give women extra arms with vacuum cleaners attached. Being a good mother doesn’t mean staying at home all the time.

I think that if God intended for women to be housewives, he would have made women far less intelligent, maybe more physically adapted to various types of housework. It’s just a fact that a large number of women would feel trapped and miserable if they had to be housewives. Women in the past took big personal risks to fight for the rights of women to be treated as fully human, to have the right to vote, to have the opportunity to get a real education, to work. I think if God intended for women to be housewives he would not have designed them to aspire to these other things or given them the abilities to succeed in them.

 

[CountrySinger]

I’m a women (who isn’t called to the married life) so my point of view might not matter, but I think that a woman should be able to provide for her own needs. Husbands can leave, die, or be unable to work. My friends were the type who thought that when they married, they didn’t have to work ever again (HA). One of them just got divorced because her husband left her for someone who had “aspirations beyond the home”. Ouch. Like a previous poster wrote, I also have a near genius IQ, but I would go crazy if my life revolved around cleaning, cooking, and children. :bigyikes:

 

[ac_claire]

Not all women (or men for that matter) have a lot of potential. I don’t see anything wrong with saying that being a doctor is a bigger accomplishment than being a housewife.

Look at the people we consider to have made huge contributions to humanity: Mother Teresa, Einstein, Pasteur, Mozart. What is so wrong with saying that these people have dome something far more worthy than housework?

Obviously most people aren’t geniuses, but many still make important contributions to society.

You may not want to be anything other than a housewife and mother, but why do you think God made you gifted and gave you near-genius IQ? Do you think in doing that God intended for you to spend the large portion of your life doing domestic chores and never using your exceptional intelligence?

God designed women for motherhood and men for fatherhood. But God did not give women extra arms with vacuum cleaners attached. Being a good mother doesn’t mean staying at home all the time.

I think that if God intended for women to be housewives, he would have made women far less intelligent, maybe more physically adapted to various types of housework. It’s just a fact that a large number of women would feel trapped and miserable if they had to be housewives. Women in the past took big personal risks to fight for the rights of women to be treated as fully human, to have the right to vote, to have the opportunity to get a real education, to work. I think if God intended for women to be housewives he would not have designed them to aspire to these other things or given them the abilities to succeed in them.

Flyingfish, I can’t help but wonder if your view of being a housewife looks like a parody of some black & white 1950’s sitcom? A mindless drone doing the dishes and fighting bathroom tile mildew all day…? I think that’s kinda funny. Instead of having a regular conversation your speaking in very imaginative cliches (God would have given women “extra arms with vaccum cleaners attatched”…?? LOL)

To answer your question…Yes I believe that God gave me an above-average intelligence for such a job as being a mother, teacher, wife and a keeper at home. Obviously the difference is we’re looking at/defining the roles of mother and housewife in vastly different ways. And we’re definitely defining “worthwhile” in different terms, but that’s ok.

I do think my intelligence is better served in this world teaching and building a good home for my kids rather than figuring out how to, for instance, sell hotel rooms to customers for some big nameless company. (Or insert any other menial 9-5 job in this example and you’ll still have the same point.) Raising good, moral citizens in a stable, nurturing enviroment is the most important job I think I could do.

As far as brain surgeons, rocket scientists and astrophysicists go…God bless them.

 

[OLHope]

op - as you can see, this is a heated subject amongst catholic women… You’re playing with fire, my friend. :d

there is a broad range of how women fit into society - and everyone along the spectrum wants moral, spiritual, and ethical justification for their lot in life. We all work very hard in our own unique ways and can pull apart all teachings of the faith to justify our sacrifice and yet we’ll get no where in this conversation because there is no one single answer to how we all should fit into society.

yes, you may be able to stay home and think that it’s god’s call for all women.
Or, you may be the working mother trying to makes ends meat in this economy.
Or, you may be the 2-income family, working together as partners.

There is not one single path for us all. We are catholic - that word alone translates to universal - all-encompassing. Any path can be taken in a moral, ethical, and spiritual fashion… We just have to find the path that god has planned for us. Please don’t tear each other down… It serves no purpose.

kudos! Agreed!

 

[OLHope]

…which is precisely why this thread says this is about CHOOSING a partner.

There are plenty of unexpected things that happen after a couple is married which require the restructuring of a family’s lifestyle. That’s been the case since there were such things as families.

But when a couple is discerning marriage then they can afford to be a lot more selective. This is the time to discuss such things as whether the woman (or man) will work or stay home with the children full or part-time. Does either party expect to assume responsibility for extended family in the event of a problem? Does either party have a career (or career goal) which will require a lot of time away from the home or an odd schedule? (Examples include the military, professional sports, sales representative, transportation, top executive, entertainment industry…)

One’s potential marriage partner can generally be a wonderful person. ** But if he or she **has plans to pursue a career which conflicts with one’s own vision of married life, then this is (I’m stealing a line from Dr. Laura) just not a match.

Great Point!

 

[OLHope]

*I agree with the SMHW…and EM as well.

I think it would be kind of weird for lack of a better word, if a guy told a woman he was dating to not ever pursue a career, if she wanted to marry him. When we marry, we become one flesh, but we don’t lose our idenity as individuals. I think that in this economy especially, it is wise for both spouses to have something they can fall back on, in case money becomes tight or one of the spouses find themselves unemployed.

I also think that our best laid plans can have monkey wrenches thrown into them. I was a SAHM, but my husband was laid off earlier in our marriage, and I went back to work, to help provide for the family, until he found gainful employment again. I think it’s important for spouses to realize that life throws us many curve balls, and if we are too rigid in our expectations, we might not deal with those challenges very well. It’s good to have solid expectations in a marriage, but we also need to be ready to be flexible, should a curve ball come our way.

Just my thoughts. *

You are great at being impartial! Seeing both sides of the coin. It would be great if one could figure if that was an intention in the beginning of courting, wouldn’t it?

 

[flyingfish]

Raising good, moral citizens in a stable, nurturing enviroment is the most important job I think I could do.

And all along my point has been is you can do this successfully while having a career. Many Catholic and otherwise families do this.

(And as for my view of what a housewife does, again and again I hear women who have worked and stayed at home saying that household chores are more difficult and take up all day. And it’s not just cleaning, but making 3+ sets of meals, shopping for food and other things, doing the dishes, and all others. Not my words, but the words of those who have done it. Not to mention that the husbands of these women often expect their wives to do 100% of it.)