How important should a woman's career aspirations be when choosing a partner?

[Rose71]

there is a flip-side to all this!

The women I know at work who seem to be the most contented and the most eficient and able to say ‘no’ to some requests - rather than feel obliged to take more and more on are those who are married and have children. They seem to have more perspective on life.Of course they do though: the whole system (over here at least) seems geared to helping them.

I am definitely not saying I think all mothers should work or stay at home, but as has been said before, there is no hard and fast rule for everyone.

For myself, I used to have very little concept of any kind of ‘plan’ for me - I just wanted a job that I enjoyed and found mentally and physically challenging and assumed I’d meet someone along the way and get married and have a family.

I’ve used this expression before - but I’ve achieved myself into a black hole as far as any chance of marriage is concerned I work long hours and profesionally have a very good reputation as an achiever and a sorter-out of mess! However, at heart I am absolutely committed to the idea of the family unit being at the core of any civilised society and knowing how much it takes to work these hours and live this life (and having been raised in a community that still sees the husband as the head of the household) I would gladly step down and play a supporting role if I could find a husband who also had a demanding career. It would give me imense satisfaction to know that he could focus on his career without worrying about shopping, cleaning, cooking, dogs being walked etc. Having lived alone and been rsponsible for every last bit of my life for years now, I appreciate how important this is - arguably more than someone who has never lived alone! One person is a messy house just gets despondent: 2 people living in chaos will end up at each other’s throats, so unless you can afford domestic help or have very understanding parents who will help - something has to give.

So, within a marriage, I believe a woman’s career aspirations should be tailored to fit her specific marriage and there should be a proper and honest discussion well before the wedding. However, I also think too many men are too willing to pigeon-hole ‘career’ women as being a poor choice of partner. Being hard-working and committed to the path you have chosen is a transferable skill, not a handicap: we know what it is like to work all hours and come back to an empty house and still have to do the shopping and cleaning - but we never get the chance to show what we are made of because we’re busy covering for all the mummies on maternity leave who seem to want the best of both worlds

 

[AlmostDrS]

I keep reading this thread, and I keep coming back more and more shocked how seemingly judgmental some women are of women who make the choice to work and have a family.

Why does it matter to you? I don’t judge women who make the choice to stay home? Why do you feel you have the right to tell women who work they aren’t as family centric or as dedicated of mothers?

This is one of the things that infuriates me most about women. We always think our way is right.

My mom stayed home with 5 kids, and it is quite obvious she would have rather been at work. She wasn’t neglectful or rude at all, in fact she was incredibly loving and dedicated to our growing up Catholic, but she often talked about how she missed the activity of her profession. How she had gone to school for 7 years, and she was so excited one day she would go back.

It was great to have her home, but seeing how much sacrifice she made and how much she struggled to get back into working once we were all grown and gone made me realize I never wanted to stay home.

I think sometimes women are so quick to assume all women should forfeit their careers and stay home with their kids. That it would make each and every woman happy and fulfilled. Is it better to have an unhappy SAHM just because she “should” stay home? Or a mother who has a strong career, comes home happy, and teaches her children about life/work balance? Not saying all SAHMs are unhappy…just making a point about certain ones.

Every woman has a different calling and to pretend we all have to end up on the same path to the SAHM lifestyle or we’re bad women and mothers is atrocious.

 

[ac_claire]

I keep reading this thread, and I keep coming back more and more shocked how seemingly judgmental some women are of women who make the choice to work and have a family.

Why does it matter to you? I don’t judge women who make the choice to stay home? Why do you feel you have the right to tell women who work they aren’t as family centric or as dedicated of mothers?

Every woman has a different calling and to pretend we all have to end up on the same path to the SAHM lifestyle or we’re bad women and mothers is atrocious.

sigh When has this actually happened in this thread, and which woman (or women) is guilty of saying or inferring such things?

 

[Rose71]

I keep reading this thread, and I keep coming back more and more shocked how seemingly judgmental some women are of women who make the choice to work and have a family.

Why does it matter to you? I don’t judge women who make the choice to stay home? Why do you feel you have the right to tell women who work they aren’t as family centric or as dedicated of mothers?

This is one of the things that infuriates me most about women. We always think our way is right.

My mom stayed home with 5 kids, and it is quite obvious she would have rather been at work. She wasn’t neglectful or rude at all, in fact she was incredibly loving and dedicated to our growing up Catholic, but she often talked about how she missed the activity of her profession. How she had gone to school for 7 years, and she was so excited one day she would go back.

It was great to have her home, but seeing how much sacrifice she made and how much she struggled to get back into working once we were all grown and gone made me realize I never wanted to stay home.

I think sometimes women are so quick to assume all women should forfeit their careers and stay home with their kids. That it would make each and every woman happy and fulfilled. Is it better to have an unhappy SAHM just because she “should” stay home? Or a mother who has a strong career, comes home happy, and teaches her children about life/work balance? Not saying all SAHMs are unhappy…just making a point about certain ones.

Every woman has a different calling and to pretend we all have to end up on the same path to the SAHM lifestyle or we’re bad women and mothers is atrocious.

I hope you didn’t interpret my post as being judgmental or critical of mothers who successfully achieve a balance between work and home life that works for them and their families! I stated early on that I appreciated there are no hard and fast rules.

I went on to express my own personal preferences for my life - nobody else’s and finally, again a perosnal observation, that in a household with 2 busy professionals; without some kind of domestic assistance, it is likley something will slip along the way.

I do believe the political system here in the UK is geared towards helping mothers take time out to have children and then get back into work.Maybe the US is different. However great it is for the mothers, it does have a negative impact on other people in the same works. I am not knocking women who choose to take advantage of this because that is what best suits their families, or blaming them: it is a political issue.

Likewise, I would not be critical of a mother who chose to stay at home full time, or went part-time: as long as it was done for the benefit of her whole family and not just herself - and nobody will ever know the answer to that except the woman herself - so, no, I don’t think it is right to make assumptions about what motivated people and whether their choices are ‘good’ or ‘bad’.

What I do object to though and most strongly too, is the media backlash against women who are successful in their careers and are unmarried and childless (maybe it hasn’t happened in the US?) There is this assumption that we have made a conscious decision not to have children and a marriage because we put our careers and education first and ergo - we would be rubbish wives and mothers anyway! The truth is often that we are hard-working women who would dealry love to be part of a family unit and would work at a marriage as hard as anyone else - but in the meantime, we are not going to wait around looking sorry for ourselves until Prince Charming lands.

At the same time, there is still a widely held belief that being a SAHM is somehow the ‘easy’ or ‘lazy’ opion - which is so far from the truth it is ridiculous - and that if you juggle work and childcare you are greedy for the money and your children are missing out Face it - you can’t win whatever you choose in the eyes of some people!

 

[RedSoxWife]

Strong feelings definitely go both ways on this issue. I know that on a pretty regular basis I hear-

“When are you going back to work?” (after all, my daughter is thirteen months old now. time to ship her off to day-care, right?).

When I say that I’m going to be staying home to raise our children and eventually homeschool them I get-

“But you will be going back to work eventually. I mean, you didn’t go to college and get a degree to sit around all day with your kids.”

Passions run high on both sides of this debate, as they do on a number of issues related to raising children. But I know I am constantly surprised at how offended some people can be by the simple idea that I want to stay home with my children (my choice). It definitely goes both ways.

 

[sharmin]

Strong feelings definitely go both ways on this issue. I know that on a pretty regular basis I hear-

“When are you going back to work?” (after all, my daughter is thirteen months old now. time to ship her off to day-care, right?).

When I say that I’m going to be staying home to raise our children and eventually homeschool them I get-

“But you will be going back to work eventually. I mean, you didn’t go to college and get a degree to sit around all day with your kids.”

Passions run high on both sides of this debate, as they do on a number of issues related to raising children. But I know I am constantly surprised at how offended some people can be by the simple idea that I want to stay home with my children (my choice). It definitely goes both ways.

You are so right about this being a highly emotional topic. Speaking for myself, I can say that I don get offended by anyone saying that they want to sah with their children. I get offended with comments like “I sah because I don’t want to be a part time mom” (clearly saying that if mom went to work she would by default be a part time mom); “I don’t want my kids being raised by strangers” (That one makes my laugh so hard I want to cry, because some people actually think that. Then it makes me hurt that people would think my children were raised by strangers. Kids go to school 8 hours a day, yes even many sah parents’ kids, but no one says that about those kids.) The list could go on, but you get my drift.

So, yes, this is emotionally charged on both sides. It’s sad, because as mothers we should be supporting each other.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I think what some of these topics boil down to is…that we can’t push what works for US, onto someone else. Everyone’s individual circumstances are different and the decisions that people make in their respective households, are not for me to judge. I was a SAHM, and now I work…I see both sides. But, I can’t tell another mom…hey, you need to stay at home, or go to work. We simply can’t and shouldn’t push our respective choices onto another–because there is a myriad of reasons as to how we all arrive at the decisions we make. *

 

[RedSoxWife]

You are so right about this being a highly emotional topic. Speaking for myself, I can say that I don get offended by anyone saying that they want to sah with their children. I get offended with comments like “I sah because I don’t want to be a part time mom” (clearly saying that if mom went to work she would by default be a part time mom); “I don’t want my kids being raised by strangers” (That one makes my laugh so hard I want to cry, because some people actually think that. Then it makes me hurt that people would think my children were raised by strangers. Kids go to school 8 hours a day, yes even many sah parents’ kids, but no one says that about those kids.) The list could go on, but you get my drift.

So, yes, this is emotionally charged on both sides. It’s sad, because as mothers we should be supporting each other.

Since both of those are variations of my comments , I can see why I offended you so much! Again, not my intention.

I guess I’ve always been a bit more detached about getting angry on the forums… I think of the discussions as interesting debates, but I’m not going to take it personally, even when someone questions my personal hygiene. That’s just me though! To each his own.

And for everyone else I apparently offended (again, not my intent), I’m going to be out and about today, so I’ll try to respond to anything directed at me tomorrow, or tonight if the baby goes to bed early enough.

 

[sharmin]

*I think what some of these topics boil down to is…that we can’t push what works for US, onto someone else. Everyone’s individual circumstances are different and the decisions that people make in their respective households, are not for me to judge. I was a SAHM, and now I work…I see both sides. But, I can’t tell another mom…hey, you need to stay at home, or go to work. We simply can’t and shouldn’t push our respective choices onto another–because there is a myriad of reasons as to how we all arrive at the decisions we make. *

Very true… Thanks.

 

[sharmin]

Since both of those are variations of my comments , I can see why I offended you so much! Again, not my intention.

RSW, I didn’t realize BOTH of those were variations o f your comments. I didn’t mean to specificall pick on you!!

I guess I’ve always been a bit more detached about getting angry on the forums… I think of the discussions as interesting debates, but I’m not going to take it personally, even when someone questions my personal hygiene. That’s just me though! To each his own.

I don’t understand why I let an online BB hurt me…maybe because when it comes to beinga mother, well, it’s just a hot button I guess.

Just to clarify, though, I didn’t call in to question YOUR hygiene…I just said I wouldn’t be comfortable with it because of sanitary issues…meaning for ME. I am a total germ phobe. Not a good character trait, either. I KNOW that without an immediate source of unlimted hot water, I’d be a nervous wreck. LOL

Don’t you wish we could type tone into our conversations? We’d get along much better.

 

[RedSoxWife]

RSW, I didn’t realize BOTH of those were variations o f your comments. I didn’t mean to specificall pick on you!!

I don’t understand why I let an online BB hurt me…maybe because when it comes to beinga mother, well, it’s just a hot button I guess.

Just to clarify, though, I didn’t call in to question YOUR hygiene…I just said I wouldn’t be comfortable with it because of sanitary issues…meaning for ME. I am a total germ phobe. Not a good character trait, either. I KNOW that without an immediate source of unlimted hot water, I’d be a nervous wreck. LOL

Don’t you wish we could type tone into our conversations? We’d get along much better.

I know, I thought about it later in the day (we had a long drive today) thinking, I hope I didn’t sound mean when I wrote that! It is so hard to tell tone sometimes and I think that’s where a lot of mix ups happen!

 

[ac_claire]

You are so right about this being a highly emotional topic. Speaking for myself, I can say that I don get offended by anyone saying that they want to sah with their children. I get offended with comments like “I sah because I don’t want to be a part time mom” (clearly saying that if mom went to work she would by default be a part time mom); “I don’t want my kids being raised by strangers” (That one makes my laugh so hard I want to cry, because some people actually think that. Then it makes me hurt that people would think my children were raised by strangers. Kids go to school 8 hours a day, yes even many sah parents’ kids, but no one says that about those kids.) The list could go on, but you get my drift.

What about taking the comments at face value? For instance…If I say something like “I am a SAHM because I don’t want to be a part-time mom” what I actually mean is, “I am a SAHM because I don’t want to be a part-time mom…*I personally *don’t want to split my time between a career and my children because I know my limits and I know that one or the other would suffer, and at this time for whatever reason I have the luxury of not working full-time.” Now, if I said “I am a SAHM because everyone knows that working moms are part-time moms!” then you’d have reason to be offended. But the comments on this thread…? These are just personal statements. Any personal statement I make is a statement about myself unless I qualify it by including you, or all moms in general, in the statement. You see what I mean?

 

[sharmin]

What about taking the comments at face value? For instance…If I say something like “I am a SAHM because I don’t want to be a part-time mom” what I actually mean is, “I am a SAHM because I don’t want to be a part-time mom…*I personally *don’t want to split my time between a career and my children because I know my limits and I know that one or the other would suffer, and at this time for whatever reason I have the luxury of not working full-time.” Now, if I said “I am a SAHM because everyone knows that working moms are part-time moms!” then you’d have reason to be offended. But the comments on this thread…? These are just personal statements. Any personal statement I make is a statement about myself unless I qualify it by including you, or all moms in general, in the statement. You see what I mean?

I don’t understand how you don’t get this. I don’t know how much clearer I can be. If someone said “I don’t want to be a sahm because I don’t want to be a part time mom”, that CLEARLY means that they would consider themselves part time moms if they worked, right? What other way is there to interpret it? Please help me understand what you mean, because I feel like we’re talking two different languages here!!

 

[cephas161619]

Just to clarify: just because we have no water in our home doesn’t mean we don’t shower every day, wash our hands frequently, ect. Those are all incorrect assumptions.

Well when people say they don’t work so that they canbe full time mothers (or however many ways it can be worded) that generally makes working mothers feel that they are being called part time mothers. Surely you can see why a wm would get that implication.

To be honest, I don’t think that’s reasonable sharmin. Nobody is implying anything. If someone chooses to see themselves in remarks that aren’t directed at them and aren’t about them…what can anyone else do about that? I’ve gone out of my way to mention the great moms I’ve known (including my own mom, including my grandma) who have had to work outside the home.

The only instance I can see where someone’s mothering was out and out called wrong was in this post and it was you doing the judging.

(p.s. Sorry I used the eye-rolly smiley. That’s rude and I edited out but you responded too quick and caught it! )

I don’t understand how you don’t get this. I don’t know how much clearer I can be. If someone said “I don’t want to be a sahm because I don’t want to be a part time mom”, that CLEARLY means that they would consider themselves part time moms if they worked, right? What other way is there to interpret it? Please help me understand what you mean, because I feel like we’re talking two different languages here!!

Sharmin, I do strongly disagree. Logically, it does not necessarily follow. While it can be the first thing that pops to mind, I think a more careful reading of the statement leads one to conclude that the speaker simply wants to spend all her time rather than part of her time with her children. The terms she chooses aren’t quite as drawn out and technical speak, but read with an eye towards understanding and looking at the statement assuming it was made with good intentions, that’s the most logical reading that I see.

 

[sharmin]

Sharmin, I do strongly disagree. Logically, it does not necessarily follow. While it can be the first thing that pops to mind, I think a more careful reading of the statement leads one to conclude that the speaker simply wants to spend all her time rather than part of her time with her children. The terms she chooses aren’t quite as drawn out and technical speak, but read with an eye towards understanding and looking at the statement assuming it was made with good intentions, that’s the most logical reading that I see.

I guess you are saying she meant “I wanted to spend as many hours with my child as possible” rather than “I don’t want to be a part time mom.” If that’s the case, I have no problem with that. But, maybe it’s me, but those two sentences couldn’t mean more different things, so I don’t see the correlation, but I guess that’s neither here nor there. She is saying that’s what she meant, so I have no problems. I was just trying to show how easily that could have been misunderstood.

 

[ac_claire]

I don’t understand how you don’t get this. I don’t know how much clearer I can be. If someone said “I don’t want to be a sahm because I don’t want to be a part time mom”, that CLEARLY means that they would consider themselves part time moms if they worked, right?

Yes, it does! Key words here: they would consider themselves part time moms if they worked. Your mothering, however, has not been commented on.

 

[GraceDK]

My mother has a full time job but she is not a part-time mom. Neither is she a part time wife (when she is on a trip with her students eg) or a part time daughter (when her parents lived she visited them once a week).
My mother worked for 30 years and recently retired. She was an awesome teacher and I am proud of her. She has always been there for me 100 percent.
So again, to invent the term “part-time mom” is for me to critizise the ways others have chosen to live in a generel sense.

 

[whatevergirl]

LADIES! You should all be LAWYERS.

 

[sharmin]

Yes, it does! Key words here: they would consider themselves part time moms if they worked. Your mothering, however, has not been commented on.

Okay, so are yousaying that while they consider themselves part time moms for working, they would NOT consider me as such?

 

[sarahraegraham]

Good grief ladies!!! Let’s make some easy clarifications here… Anyone who is a mother is always a “full-time” mother in that she is a mother no matter where she is or what she is doing. A crack-addict prostitute who leaves her newborn baby never to see her again is a full-time mother. That is the state of motherhood.

Now, what we (or should I say you all) are discussing is the role of mother. The role of mother is quite different from the state of motherhood. The role of mother involves the actions of a caretaker, and if a person is not the caretaker for her children all the time, then she is, indeed, technically a part-time “mother”.

There is no getting around that the *role *of caretaker cannot be “played” full-time if you are engaged in an occupation other than it 40 hours per week, or even less (because the same holds true). You have shifted your role from that our primarily caretaker to primarily provider, which is traditionally a male role, and that forces someone else to “mother” your child while you are gone. If someone else is “mothering” your child, then it is only logical that it follows that you are not full-time mothering him/her.

To clarify that a little further, mothering means to do what no one else except you can do. No father or babysitter can mother your child, only you can. You’re providing, you’re supporting, but you cannot mother when you are somewhere else.

So stop being offended, because it’s a simple fact and not an attack on you or anyone else who happens to be a mother, but not act directly in that capacity full-time.

Does that mean you are a “bad” mother? Absolutely not. We all do what we have to do. But our feelings don’t change the facts, whether we like them or not.