How important should a woman's career aspirations be when choosing a partner?

[sharmin]

Now, what we (or should I say you all) are discussing is the role of mother. The role of mother is quite different from the state of motherhood. The role of mother involves the actions of a caretaker, and if a person is not the caretaker for her children all the time, then she is, indeed, technically a part-time “mother”.

Wow. So mothers who have children in first grade are no longer full time mothers to them because she is the caretaker less hours?

There is no getting around that the *role *of caretaker cannot be “played” full-time if you are engaged in an occupation other than it 40 hours per week, or even less (because the same holds true). You have shifted your role from that our primarily caretaker to primarily provider, which is traditionally a male role, and that forces someone else to “mother” your child while you are gone. If someone else is “mothering” your child, then it is only logical that it follows that you are not full-time mothering him/her.

Okay, but again, does the same hold true for you when the children go to school? Their mother would have gone from full-time to part-time?

To clarify that a little further, mothering means to do what no one else except you can do. No father or babysitter can mother your child, only you can. You’re providing, you’re supporting, but you cannot mother when you are somewhere else.

I think I agree with you, but to clarify: What does a mother do with her ten year old child that the father cannot?

So stop being offended, because it’s a simple fact and not an attack on you or anyone else who happens to be a mother, but not act directly in that capacity full-time.

It is not a fact, and it is offensive to think that I put in less time as a mother if I work. I am doing different chores at work, but they are all for my child. And I never stop mothering, even when I am not there. Whether I am at work, or my child is at school. I am ACTIVELY mothering.

 

[GraceDK]

Wow. So mothers who have children in first grade are no longer full time mothers to them because she is the caretaker less hours?

Okay, but again, does the same hold true for you when the children go to school? Their mother would have gone from full-time to part-time?

I think I agree with you, but to clarify: What does a mother do with her ten year old child that the father cannot?

It is not a fact, and it is offensive to think that I put in less time as a mother if I work. I am doing different chores at work, but they are all for my child. And I never stop mothering, even when I am not there. Whether I am at work, or my child is at school. I am ACTIVELY mothering.

I agree …

 

[cephas161619]

Good grief ladies!!! Let’s make some easy clarifications here… Anyone who is a mother is always a “full-time” mother in that she is a mother no matter where she is or what she is doing. A crack-addict prostitute who leaves her newborn baby never to see her again is a full-time mother. That is the state of motherhood.

Now, what we (or should I say you all) are discussing is the role of mother. The role of mother is quite different from the state of motherhood. The role of mother involves the actions of a caretaker, and if a person is not the caretaker for her children all the time, then she is, indeed, technically a part-time “mother”.

Wow. So mothers who have children in first grade are no longer full time mothers to them because she is the caretaker less hours?

Okay, but again, does the same hold true for you when the children go to school? Their mother would have gone from full-time to part-time?

I think I agree with you, but to clarify: What does a mother do with her ten year old child that the father cannot?

It is not a fact, and it is offensive to think that I put in less time as a mother if I work. I am doing different chores at work, but they are all for my child. And I never stop mothering, even when I am not there. Whether I am at work, or my child is at school. I am ACTIVELY mothering.

Not sure where “caretaker less hours” came from, but I think you’ve missed a key distinction that Sarah drew: between ‘being a mother’ and the ‘role of motherhood’. I think you’re suggesting a different role of motherhood. Nobody means to argue against your state of motherhood, but in our careless imprecise speech it can come across that way. “Part time mother” only refers to the role, NOT the being. If you want to redefine the role to include working outside the home 20, 40, 60 or 80 hours a week, that is another question. I hope that makes things more clear.

 

[sharmin]

Not sure where “caretaker less hours” came from, but I think you’ve missed a key distinction that Sarah drew: between ‘being a mother’ and the ‘role of motherhood’. I think you’re suggesting a different role of motherhood. Nobody means to argue against your state of motherhood, but in our careless imprecise speech it can come across that way. “Part time mother” only refers to the role, NOT the being. If you want to redefine the role to include working outside the home 20, 40, 60 or 80 hours a week, that is another question. I hope that makes things more clear.

I am actively mothering while I am working outside the home.

 

[sarahraegraham]

Not sure where “caretaker less hours” came from, but I think you’ve missed a key distinction that Sarah drew: between ‘being a mother’ and the ‘role of motherhood’. I think you’re suggesting a different role of motherhood. Nobody means to argue against your state of motherhood, but in our careless imprecise speech it can come across that way. “Part time mother” only refers to the role, NOT the being. If you want to redefine the role to include working outside the home 20, 40, 60 or 80 hours a week, that is another question. I hope that makes things more clear.

Thank you, I think that will help them. Hopefully.

I am actively mothering while I am working outside the home.

You are actively providing, not actively mothering.

 

[sharmin]

Thank you, I think that will help them. Hopefully.

You are actively providing, not actively mothering.

First of all, providing IS mothering. It is part of it. Secondly, I am available. Should my child fall and hurt his/herself I run to him/her. Third, I am actively making decisions in my child’s life, yes, even while at work.

You know, I have asked his question COUNTLESS time, and still no answer. Are you mothering your child when they go to school? If you think not, then you and I simply have different definitions of mothering, and really, the debate is over.

 

[cephas161619]

Are you mothering your child when they go to school? If you think not, then you and I simply have different definitions of mothering, and really, the debate is over.

Based on everything said, I would say no, you’re not fulfilling the role of mother while your child is at school. But I think we’ve already said this. and pointed out that you are referring to the state of motherhood, while proposing a different definition of the role.

 

[whatevergirl]

*((sharmin)) I want to cry reading your posts…that you feel you need to defend yourselves to any of us. You don’t. If we are working hard as mothers, whether we have outside work or not, following God’s plan…doing our best to serve HIM and our families…that’s all that matters. You don’t need our approval to know if you are a good mother. ((hugs)) *

 

[GraceDK]

First of all, providing IS mothering. It is part of it. Secondly, I am available. Should my child fall and hurt his/herself I run to him/her. Third, I am actively making decisions in my child’s life, yes, even while at work.

You know, I have asked his question COUNTLESS time, and still no answer. Are you mothering your child when they go to school? If you think not, then you and I simply have different definitions of mothering, and really, the debate is over.

Of course you are mothering your child when they go to school. You make sure they get there, have their homework done, have support from both parents both emotionally and when it comes to helping with homework etc. Your making sure your kids go to school in a good way means you do your loving duty as a good mother

I second Whatevergirl.
Let no one judge you.

 

[cephas161619]

Let no one judge you.

No one is judging you. We’re using different terms. and yes, judging your actions according to different terms. No offense, but as has been repeated more and more, everybody has a different vocation. Some will be called to be a sahm, others not. I presume that those who are working outside the home are not called to be sahm’s. Is that judging?

 

[sarahraegraham]

First of all, providing IS mothering. It is part of it. Secondly, I am available. Should my child fall and hurt his/herself I run to him/her. Third, I am actively making decisions in my child’s life, yes, even while at work.

You know, I have asked his question COUNTLESS time, and still no answer. Are you mothering your child when they go to school? If you think not, then you and I simply have different definitions of mothering, and really, the debate is over.

No, you are not mothering your child while they are at school if you are not homeschooling. See quote below about the definition of mothering…

Based on everything said, I would say no, you’re not fulfilling the role of mother while your child is at school. But I think we’ve already said this. and pointed out that you are referring to the state of motherhood, while proposing a different definition of the role.

Ditto.

*((sharmin)) I want to cry reading your posts…that you feel you need to defend yourselves to any of us. You don’t. If we are working hard as mothers, whether we have outside work or not, following God’s plan…doing our best to serve HIM and our families…that’s all that matters. You don’t need our approval to know if you are a good mother. ((hugs)) *

Ditto. We’re talking about an abstract idea here, not your (or anyone else’s) personal situation.

 

[SMHW]

First of all, providing IS mothering. It is part of it. Secondly, I am available. Should my child fall and hurt his/herself I run to him/her. Third, I am actively making decisions in my child’s life, yes, even while at work.

You know, I have asked his question COUNTLESS time, and still no answer. Are you mothering your child when they go to school? If you think not, then you and I simply have different definitions of mothering, and really, the debate is over.

I side with cephas161619 and say, no, you are not fully acting in the “role of mother” while your children are at school. But I think it’s also fair to say that a woman who is at home with her children may not always be acting in the role of mother either. While there is some overlap, I see a distinction between the role of mother and the role of homemaker. I see the role of mother as meaning direct care for the physical needs of a child: feeding, bathing, cuddling, physical comforting…

It’s also true that as a child gets older he (hopefully) begins to require less active mothering even if he still needs supervision and guidance. An older child begins to grasp the more abstract idea that a parent is parenting even if that parent is not the immediate deliverer of what the child needs and/or wants. Being a “good mother” may involve “not mothering” when the time comes for a child to act more independently.

 

[whatevergirl]

No one is judging you. We’re using different terms. and yes, judging your actions according to different terms. No offense, but as has been repeated more and more, everybody has a different vocation. Some will be called to be a sahm, others not. I presume that those who are working outside the home are not called to be sahm’s. Is that judging?

*But, that’s your opinion, not a fact. Not Catholic doctrine. Not anything, really…just your opinion. You’re entitled to your opinion–but I think it’s a horrible thing to INSINUATE that a woman who works out of the home, is not fulfilling her role as mother. Or that she is somehow parttime.

These threads always end up like this…women debating other women over the choices they make. There’s no need to debate, is my point. Sharmin wouldn’t feel she had to defend her choices, if other women weren’t debating her over them.

It’s hard enough to raise God-fearing, loving children in this world, we mothers should stick together, and stop acting like we play for different teams or something. We are all on the same team…*

 

[cephas161619]

But, that’s your opinion, not a fact. Not Catholic doctrine. Not anything, really…just your opinion. You’re entitled to your opinion–but I think it’s a horrible thing to INSINUATE that a woman who works out of the home, is not fulfilling her role as mother.

Yes, I said as much: we’re defining the ‘role of mother’ differently. Please don’t ascribe horrible insinuating things to me.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Take it easy…
I think all too often these discussions leave the impression that the act of raising children (whatever you want to call it - caretaker, role of motherhood, whatever) is equaled to sainthood. It’s not. There are plenty of SAHM’s that do lousy jobs of caring for their children - and just as many working parents that screw up too. Sainthood has nothing to do with WHAT we are doing - it’s HOW we are doing it.

I’m going to go ahead and quote myself here… just to remind everyone.

There is not one single path for us all. We are CATHOLIC - that word alone translates to UNIVERSAL - all-encompassing. Any path can be taken in a moral, ethical, and spiritual fashion… we just have to find the path that God has planned for us. Please don’t tear each other down… it serves no purpose.

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes, I said as much: we’re defining the ‘role of mother’ differently. Please don’t ascribe horrible insinuating things to me.

*ok sorry. haha Ugh, ladies…I just think we should take a step back…read through this thread…and see that debating one another is not helpful. I think the OP ran away. I will say this…my kids, for having a working mom…are quite outstanding human beings. They are not perfect, but I think I do my best…and if I were home, I don’t know if they would be any better or worse off. I can only speak to the fact, that despite me working…they are wonderful people, and teachers, priests, nuns, etc have told me so. I think that the proof of a good PARENT, is how their kids turn out. Not our subjective ideas of what makes a good, fulltime, parttime, whatever parent. But the fruits of our labors so to speak, will be how our children turn out…how they contribute to God’s kingdom and society. How they treat and love others.

Good parenting is not an idealogy…it’s about everyday actions, and setting examples. Just my two cents. Not directed at you, cephas! *

 

[cephas161619]

ok sorry. haha Ugh, ladies…

assumptions…

 

[Litcrit]

Now, what we (or should I say you all) are discussing is the role of mother. The role of mother is quite different from the state of motherhood. The role of mother involves the actions of a caretaker, and if a person is not the caretaker for her children all the time, then she is, indeed, technically a part-time “mother”.

There is no getting around that the *role *of caretaker cannot be “played” full-time if you are engaged in an occupation other than it 40 hours per week, or even less (because the same holds true). You have shifted your role from that our primarily caretaker to primarily provider, which is traditionally a male role, and that forces someone else to “mother” your child while you are gone. If someone else is “mothering” your child, then it is only logical that it follows that you are not full-time mothering him/her.

To clarify that a little further, mothering means to do what no one else except you can do. No father or babysitter can mother your child, only you can. You’re providing, you’re supporting, but you cannot mother when you are somewhere else.

So stop being offended, because it’s a simple fact and not an attack on you or anyone else who happens to be a mother, but not act directly in that capacity full-time.

Does that mean you are a “bad” mother? Absolutely not. We all do what we have to do. But our feelings don’t change the facts, whether we like them or not.

I’ll accept your definition if you agree that a working father is then a part-time father and that anything a mother does will never replace his fathering and that he is not fully living out his ‘role’ as a father if he ever leaves home, even to go to the store. Otherwise, I disagree.

Based on everything said, I would say no, you’re not fulfilling the role of mother while your child is at school. But I think we’ve already said this. and pointed out that you are referring to the state of motherhood, while proposing a different definition of the role.

And the father is also not fulfilling the role of father while he’s at work; or while the kids are at school; or while they’re at college; or while the kids are on their honeymoon with their spouses…

I side with cephas161619 and say, no, you are not fully acting in the “role of mother” while your children are at school. …] I see the role of mother as meaning direct care for the physical needs of a child: feeding, bathing, cuddling, physical comforting…

It’s also true that as a child gets older he (hopefully) begins to require less active mothering even if he still needs supervision and guidance. An older child begins to grasp the more abstract idea that a parent is parenting even if that parent is not the immediate deliverer of what the child needs and/or wants. Being a “good mother” may involve “not mothering” when the time comes for a child to act more independently.

I can agree if you concede that school-aged children have very little need for someone ‘fully acting in the “role of mother”’ - surely 6-year-olds don’t need someone ‘feeding, bathing, cuddling, and physically comforting’ them most of the time, do they?

Then, according to your definition, one is a good mother to a 6-year-old when not mothering any more? I can assure you, according to MY definition of mothering, my mother still mothered me when I was in college - we had lengthy discussions on ethics. But I didn’t even see her every day.

*ok sorry. haha Ugh, ladies…I just think we should take a step back…read through this thread…and see that debating one another is not helpful. I think the OP ran away. I will say this…my kids, for having a working mom…are quite outstanding human beings. They are not perfect, but I think I do my best…and if I were home, I don’t know if they would be any better or worse off. I can only speak to the fact, that despite me working…they are wonderful people, and teachers, priests, nuns, etc have told me so. I think that the proof of a good PARENT, is how their kids turn out. Not our subjective ideas of what makes a good, fulltime, parttime, whatever parent. But the fruits of our labors so to speak, will be how our children turn out…how they contribute to God’s kingdom and society. How they treat and love others.

Good parenting is not an ideology…it’s about everyday actions, and setting examples. Just my two cents. Not directed at you, cephas! *

I couldn’t agree more. It’s all about the fruits.

 

[sharmin]

Based on everything said, I would say no, you’re not fulfilling the role of mother while your child is at school. But I think we’ve already said this. and pointed out that you are referring to the state of motherhood, while proposing a different definition of the role.

Okay, now I understand why we keep disagreeing. We are using two different definitions. I understand what your saying now. I disagree, but I understand.

 

[sharmin]

*((sharmin)) I want to cry reading your posts…that you feel you need to defend yourselves to any of us. You don’t. If we are working hard as mothers, whether we have outside work or not, following God’s plan…doing our best to serve HIM and our families…that’s all that matters. You don’t need our approval to know if you are a good mother. ((hugs)) *

Thank you for that. Although I am not currently a working mother, I have been in the past. I have been both, sah and woh…and I felt like I was equally mothering my children in both situations. However in this particular thread, I felt the need to vehemently defend working mothers who I know do all the things sah moms do, in addition to working outside the home. I know because I have been there.