How important should a woman's career aspirations be when choosing a partner?

[sharmin]

Of course you are mothering your child when they go to school. You make sure they get there, have their homework done, have support from both parents both emotionally and when it comes to helping with homework etc. Your making sure your kids go to school in a good way means you do your loving duty as a good mother

Thank you for that. So you also believe that a working mother is actively mothering her children when she is at work too, right? I’m so relieved to hear that! I felt like a lone ranger here!! haha

 

[sharmin]

No one is judging you. We’re using different terms. and yes, judging your actions according to different terms. No offense, but as has been repeated more and more, everybody has a different vocation. Some will be called to be a sahm, others not. I presume that those who are working outside the home are not called to be sahm’s. Is that judging?

Nope. And now that I understand what you are saying, and that we were using two different definitions, I get it.

 

[sharmin]

I side with cephas161619 and say, no, you are not fully acting in the “role of mother” while your children are at school. But I think it’s also fair to say that a woman who is at home with her children may not always be acting in the role of mother either. While there is some overlap, I see a distinction between the role of mother and the role of homemaker. I see the role of mother as meaning direct care for the physical needs of a child: feeding, bathing, cuddling, physical comforting…

It’s also true that as a child gets older he (hopefully) begins to require less active mothering even if he still needs supervision and guidance. An older child begins to grasp the more abstract idea that a parent is parenting even if that parent is not the immediate deliverer of what the child needs and/or wants. Being a “good mother” may involve “not mothering” when the time comes for a child to act more independently.

Interesting thoughts. I always felt that school aged children required a sah mom moreso than a toddler. Especially middle school aged children. They can get into so much trouble after school, etc. Plus, they seem to need so much guidance from their parents. Not that I think they NEED a sah parent necessarily (depends on the child, the situation, etc.l) However, I feel a sahp is more needed in the older years.

*edited to add that I am not saying an older child NEEDS a sahp…just that if I wanted to sah and could only do so EITHER in the toddler/baby years or in the preteen years, I would choose the later.

 

[SMHW]

I can agree if you concede that school-aged children have very little need for someone ‘fully acting in the “role of mother”’ - surely 6-year-olds don’t need someone ‘feeding, bathing, cuddling, and physically comforting’ them most of the time, do they?

Then, according to your definition, one is a good mother to a 6-year-old when not mothering any more? I can assure you, according to MY definition of mothering, my mother still mothered me when I was in college - we had lengthy discussions on ethics. But I didn’t even see her every day.

See, I’m going by the “traditional definition of mothering” which is somewhat different than the “traditional role of fathering”. By my definition, the hugging, cuddling, etc. is “mothering” even if it is done by the father. “Fathering” is more traditionally the role of coaching, rough housing, and providing. Educating giving advice is part of the roles of both parents.

And neither role really ever ends as long as the mother or father are alive and lucid. In fact, ideally, the child (even if the child is 80+ years old) will internalize some of that parenting. What I meant earlier was that a newborn baby needs almost as much cuddling as before birth and often needs to be feed several times an hour round the clock. But a one year old doesn’t need quite so much as a one week old. And a ten year old doesn’t need as much as a one year old. A twenty-something doesn’t need as much as a ten year old. We don’t lose our desire for mothering or fathering when we become mothers and fathers.

I don’t think that delegating some of the parenting tasks to others is a bad thing. Families have done this for thousands of years. I worked full time at some point in each of my childrens’ infancy and childhood. But it was hard and my children made it clear that they would have preferred much less daycare. A parent needs to realize that very young children (under age 2 or 3) understand relationship in terms of concrete interaction. Somewhat older children can mentally understand that Mommy and Daddy are caring for them from afar but emotionally they want something more.

 

[flyingfish]

The role of a mother (and father) is to bring new people into this world, and to help them become independent adults. This means making sure your children get an education, that they have good social skills, that their illnesses are treated, that they have food to eat and a place to sleep.

As Catholics it means making sure they learn about the faith.

It’s simply not necessary to physically be there 100% of the time to achieve these goals. This is demonstrated by countless families where both parents work.

In working outside the home you are contributing to building a world for your children, and human beings in general.

If you are someone who enjoys spending all your time with the little ones, that’s fine. But I don’t see why it should follow that it is the only moral way of life, and that every other parent should live as you do.

 

[Litcrit]

See, I’m going by the “traditional definition of mothering” which is somewhat different than the “traditional role of fathering”. By my definition, the hugging, cuddling, etc. is “mothering” even if it is done by the father. “Fathering” is more traditionally the role of coaching, rough housing, and providing. Educating giving advice is part of the roles of both parents.

OK, I get it. We come from different traditions and your ‘traditional definitions’ don’t match mine at all. When my husband cuddles our daughter, it wouldn’t cross his mind that he is mothering her. When I chase her around the house, wrestle with her and work for *some *of her food (I still also breastfeed her ) I certainly don’t feel like I’m fathering her. Both mine and my husband’s fathers were also very cuddly and involved (and did much of the household chores, too), and both our mothers worked outside of the house. Neither of us would think of anything else as ‘traditional’ or ‘the norm’.

So much depends on definitions, and definitions, when one talks about family matters, depend on one’s childhood experience, which influences our ideas on what is ‘normal’, ‘average’ or ‘usual’. It’s a miracle we can talk at all.

I don’t think that delegating some of the **parenting **tasks to others is a bad thing. Families have done this for thousands of years. I worked full time at some point in each of my childrens’ infancy and childhood. But it was hard and my children made it clear that they would have preferred much less daycare. A **parent **needs to realize that very young children (under age 2 or 3) understand relationship in terms of concrete interaction. Somewhat older children can mentally understand that Mommy and Daddy are caring for them from afar but emotionally they want something more.

I understand. Thank you for using the bolded expressions.

I think we all need to remember that a PARENT being away from children is already not an ideal situation. Ideally, children should have both, all the time, and extended family too. But, the world being what it is, this rarely happens, except in large farming families. We all try for the next best thing that will suit our family situations.

 

[ac_claire]

Okay, so are yousaying that while they consider themselves part time moms for working, they would NOT consider me as such?

Yes, exactly.

I am very clear about what I want and what I consider the ideal, but I would never dream of judging anyone else’s situation…ESPECIALLY considering that most mothers these days (seems like anyhow) don’t even have the option of staying home or working. Their circumstances have made the decision for them and they have to work, like it or not. And like I was saying, my mom worked full time and she did the best she could…She always wanted to be a SAHM but my dad had other plans, unfortunately for her. And then there’s my grandma who was widowed with 7 kids, she worked full-time, and she was amazing.

 

[ac_claire]

Thank you for that. Although I am not currently a working mother, I have been in the past. I have been both, sah and woh…and I felt like I was equally mothering my children in both situations. However in this particular thread, I felt the need to vehemently defend working mothers who I know do all the things sah moms do, in addition to working outside the home. I know because I have been there.

I will take your word for it. Seriously. You have no need to jump to defend yourself to us when we aren’t even talking about you. We’re either talking about ourselves or speaking in very general terms. That this is our own viewpoint should be assumed.

Anyhow, think about this…why do you even care what I think? I don’t know you, you don’t know me…I don’t know WHAT kind of mother you are and for what I don’t know, I’m prepared to assume the best. So even IF I were saying you were only a part-time mom (IF…please understand this is a hypothetical situation), why would that matter to you? I’m just some gal on the internet saying random things!

You could start a thread over at the Water Cooler about how ac claire is a horrible cook. I know I’m not, but I won’t care because YOU’VE never tasted my cooking.

 

[sharmin]

I will take your word for it. Seriously. You have no need to jump to defend yourself to us when we aren’t even talking about you. We’re either talking about ourselves or speaking in very general terms. That this is our own viewpoint should be assumed.

Anyhow, think about this…why do you even care what I think? I don’t know you, you don’t know me…I don’t know WHAT kind of mother you are and for what I don’t know, I’m prepared to assume the best. So even IF I were saying you were only a part-time mom (IF…please understand this is a hypothetical situation), why would that matter to you? I’m just some gal on the internet saying random things!

You could start a thread over at the Water Cooler about how ac claire is a horrible cook. I know I’m not, but I won’t care because YOU’VE never tasted my cooking.

Well, I guess the reason I care is because it bothers me to see the world perceive wms (or sahms) in negative ways. And this bb is a sampling of the world.

 

[ac_claire]

Well, I guess the reason I care is because it bothers me to see the world perceive wms (or sahms) in negative ways. And this bb is a sampling of the world.

But again…nobody is perceiving WMs negatively here. I think people are just expressing what a.) we believe (subjective, remember) the ideal is in general, and b.) what we know the ideal is for ourselves.

 

[SMHW]

Interesting thoughts. I always felt that school aged children required a sah mom moreso than a toddler. Especially middle school aged children. They can get into so much trouble after school, etc.

I agree, actually.

Perhaps I didn’t make my point clear enough earlier. As children age they need less “mothering” but the mothering they do need is spread out through the day. Newborn infants do best with almost 24/7 touching/holding and almost that much time for feeding. A typical six year old still needs a far amount of mommy touching but he is also capable of going several hours without requiring a hug and/or something to eat. However an infant can usually get by with the passive supervision of the mother/parent while a six year old may require some very active supervision.

But I don’t see supervision as a strictly “mothering” role even though it is no doubt highly motivated by “mothering instinct”.

 

[budgie2]

As a woman who had a mother who stayed mainly at home when I was at school, her working hours were small, I think they’re were a number of advantages to having my mum there a lot. Her mum was also there a lot but my aunts mainly work full time and are all divorced for that matter.

1. My mum was always there when I came home from school so she could monitor things like bullying. I’m a quiet person so I wouldn’t tell my mum if I was being bullied but I might look unhappy or look like I’ve been crying when I’ve come home. You should have a relative to be there with your children when they come home. My husband was in boarding school and got bullied and nobody had a clue and he suffered from depression.
2. My mum was always there when I was sick so I wasn’t forced to go to school when I was ill although some of my friends were. I always had somebody to take care of me. If you work longer hours it’s harder to take time off although some women manage.
3. I generally had a meal on the table and I wasn’t eating ready meals and I was taken care of at home. I wasn’t forced to do a lot of house work and my life was easy as a child with a nearly full time mum.
4. My mum also did a lot of voluntary work in the community such as helping relatives and neighbours for free and was a good Christian role model. I try to emulate my mum. She didn’t just work for pay.

I can’t say I was ever jealous of children whose mothers worked.

 

[dashso40]

Both my parents worked full time while I was growing up…During my teen years, I got into trouble b/c there was no one ther to supervise…I vowed that when I had kids, like I do now that those kids would not be left alone or with a babysitter…that’s why I do shift work so me or my husband are home all the time with the kids…I have no desire to advance my career…I just do it b/c I have to pay bills…I hated that my mother seemed like in that “executive” mode too much of the time, and I hated it…that was just my personal experience…her family was secondary to her career…

 

[ac_claire]

Both my parents worked full time while I was growing up…During my teen years, I got into trouble b/c there was no one ther to supervise…I vowed that when I had kids, like I do now that those kids would not be left alone or with a babysitter…

I had a similar experience growing up, and so my fiance and I have made a similar vow that we’ll do whatever it takes so I can stay home with our kids as much as possible.

In my case, it wasn’t that my mom’s career “came first”…it’s just that as a single mother with two kids, she had to work real hard and she was frequently very, very tired (exhausted really) and short with us. I love my mom dearly, she’s my best friend and I know she did the best she could, but even she knew at the time that our situation wasn’t ideal. She would have given anything if she could have stayed home with her kids; it just wasn’t possible.

 

[dakotagirl]

See, that’s where people are just different. (And that’s okay) Many people would not consider that a proper environment to raise their children. You do. You do not think working for indoor plumbing is good for children, but some people do. I guess our differences are what make the world go 'round. We need to be careful of passing judgement, though. (Not that you have…I’m just speaking in general terms)

I totally agree. It is commendable that RSW is making tremendous sacrifices to do as she sees best for her children because she loves them. However, that is not how everyone would raise their children, because they love them. If I have to get another degree and work 55 hours a week (while daddy changes diapers ) so that my children will not have to worry about where the money is coming from for food, clothing, plumbing, then so be it, because I will love them (I am told children are lovable, and that hormones ensure this, but that is a different thread)

I think the main reason for having career aspirations are as others have stated, what if dad dies or the economy crashes? These are real -life dangers that certainly happen to anybody. Trusting God is a smart plan, as long as we have put to use the bodies, minds and resources that he gave us to prepare.

~Dakota

P.S. I think that having a vocation to a certain career might mean singlehood (think doctors) AND that that vocation MIGHT be a higher calling than motherhood. The priesthood is a higher calling, other things might be as well.

 

[ac_claire]

I think the main reason for having career aspirations are as others have stated, what if dad dies or the economy crashes? These are real -life dangers that certainly happen to anybody. Trusting God is a smart plan, as long as we have put to use the bodies, minds and resources that he gave us to prepare.

This doesn’t necessary mean that a women has to have career aspirations…just that they’re willing and ready work if need be. As I’ve said before, I’ve never had any serious career ambitions but I’ve always been a hard worker nonetheless. Yeah there are some jobs I’ve liked more than others, but the bottom line is they’re all just a means to an end for me and I’ve always known that my true calling was to be a wife and mother. BUT if some unforseen circumstances should arise forcing me to work outside the home, I’m ready, willing and able to work as hard as I need to to accomplish those ends.

Also I believe that public assistance for widows should be geared towards allowing the mother to stay home and raise her own kids, rather than giving her money or grants to go put her kids in daycare. Why not give that money to her directly to cover utilities and childcare expenses? In my opinion daycare centers shouldn’t exist as an easy option except in cases of emergency but that’s also a whole 'nother thread lol.

 

[dakotagirl]

While being willing and ready to work if need be, it is awesome to have genuine career aspirations as well.

 

[RedSoxWife]

P.S. I think that having a vocation to a certain career might mean singlehood (think doctors) AND that that vocation MIGHT be a higher calling than motherhood. The priesthood is a higher calling, other things might be as well.

I would only disagree with the word “higher.” Some people have a vocation in the priesthood, some as nuns or deacons, some as mothers and wives. Some are called to be single. Vocations are different, as we are called to do different things, but I wouldn’t say that one is “higher” than another. That’s just something that jumped out at me…

It’s also funny how things change once you have a baby (I should add for some women, like me, because I don’t want to offend anyone by making a blanket statement!)… Growing up, and in high school and college I never once said “I want to be a stay at home mom…” Now I wouldn’t want it any other way.

 

[ac_claire]

While being willing and ready to work if need be, it is awesome to have genuine career aspirations as well.

But some people just don’t have them, like me. It’s similar (I imagine) to how you’ve said you just don’t feel like you want kids. If that’s it, that’s it. (Even though I suspect that might change once you meet the right guy. )

 

[jimannek]

Hi, I think it depends on what you see as the kind of family/home life you hope to have. In today’s world, little value is placed on how our children are raised. I have been for the most part, a stay-at-home mom for 32 years. I have held many part time jobs, often daycare in our home. I feel that women have forgotton or been made to feel that being “just a mother and wife”, somehow diminishes them in our society. I believe that there is no greater calling for a woman than being a loving, mother and wife. God has given us the great gift of sharing in creation and then we take our most prized possesion to strangers in a daycare center. When you see all the broken families in our country alone, you have to wonder if no one at home is one of the major problems, I believe that it is. Yes, you have to be prepared to sacrifice getting that new car right away, and keeping up with the Joneses will not be easy but if your goal is to a have stable family life than you should try to find someone who feels the same way. Let me add that I understand that there are exceptions to this; I have the greatest respect for single parents going it alone. Parenting is a full time job and really needs both mom and dad. When circumstances leave one parent to do the job it is more than just challenging, it is exhausting, lonely and confusing. After all, how can one person be mother, father, breadwinner, housekeeper and have it be easy! Also, I believe that Dad’s can be great stay at home parents. If it is better suited for the wife to work and dad to stay home, so be it. The important thing is that children and working spouse know that someone is there for them at the beginning of their day, after school or work. When we devote ourselves to the love and care of our family we recieve a far greater reward than a paycheck. Good Luck with your future!