How is a person really "saved"

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ltwin said:
So you think there isn’t an issue with you raising up Paul (and everyone else apparently) to the status of savior?
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Well, since Scripture says that Paul saves, I don’t have a problem with it.

You do? You don’t think Scripture is correct here? :confused:
 
Servant19 said:
Firstly I do follow Christ.

Secondly, we do not have everything we need through His sacrifice. There are plenty of Christians who have put shame to Jesus’ name.
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Well we do have everything we need through Christ. For the love of Christ is EVERYTHING. In and of itself I could have NO faith. I could move Mountains with Faith! I could have the best hope in the world… But without love. Meaningless. Christ’s sacrifice is one of Pure Love for YOU! And it is by that sacrifice that God Himself chose to bring you to Him through Jesus by the Holy Spirit. As for why some christians whom put shame to His name do the things they do we leave that to God. The Word, His Word, will judge them. But that does not mean the Sacrifice on the cross was ineffectual. It was so efficacious that the vastness of grace, the riches of Christ, is infinite.
If we had everything we need, that would not happen.
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You have a need? Ask your Father. He gives to all generously and without reproach… What father would give a snake to a child asking for water?
For a start, comparing the posts in this thread that indicate that some are from “gods” and others are from “the one true God” is an indication of the reality that some people are worshipping the name of Christ, rather than the spirit of Christ.
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Only one way offers salvation.
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You might be partially right in this but who are we to say that they don’t worship the Father in Spirit and Truth? You are correct though in noticing the differences in understanding regarding the ‘‘deep things’’ of God.
 
ltwin said:
Yes, we participate in Christ’s Great Commission, but I don’t think we need to make it more complicated than it is. Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again. It is all about Christ. Not Paul or Apollos or the Sunday school teacher. It’s all about Christ. We are servants to the world for the sake of Christ, but it is Christ’s death and redemptive work that makes salvation possible. He and he alone is The Savior of mankind.
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Very Catholic, this! 👍
 
PRmerger said:
Well, since Scripture says that Paul saves, I don’t have a problem with it.

You do? You don’t think Scripture is correct here? :confused:
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Paul is not saying that salvation comes through him or us. He is saying that in so far as he obeys God in preaching the gospel he is saving those who hear him. If we go around declaring that “I can save myself” and “Paul saved people,” what we are doing is confusing people and minimizing rather than magnifying Christ. What the world needs is the knowledge of Christ.

As I said earlier, I understand what you mean, but everyone else will not. At a time when people are already confused about the nature of salvation and the person of Jesus Christ, Christians (of any and every tribe) need to be clear about what they believe and not throw monkey wrenches into everything, especially those things that are foundational, such as how someone is saved. The answer is that salvation comes to those who trust in Christ, not Paul or you or me.
 
ltwin said:
Paul is not saying that salvation comes through him or us.
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Right.

Just like we (Catholics) don’t say that salvation comes through Mary or us.
He is saying that in so far as he obeys God in preaching the gospel he is saving those who hear him. If we go around declaring that “I can save myself” and “Paul saved people,” what we are doing is confusing people and minimizing rather than magnifying Christ. What the world needs is the knowledge of Christ.
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Agreed.
As I said earlier, I understand what you mean, but everyone else will not. At a time when people are already confused about the nature of salvation and the person of Jesus Christ, Christians (of any and every tribe) need to be clear about what they believe and not throw monkey wrenches into everything, especially those things that are foundational, such as how someone is saved. The answer is that salvation comes to those who trust in Christ, not Paul or you or me.
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Would the above then apply to professing “I believe in 3 Persons in 1 God” then, too?

There’s a whole lot o’ folks (read: Muslims, Jews, atheists, Unitarians, JWs, Sabbatarians) who don’t understand what you mean when you say that. At at ime when people are already confused about the nature of the Godhead, Christians need to be very clear that we profess 1 God. Not 3.

Will you stop professing that you believe in 3 Persons in 1 God?
 
i don’t think it’s quite the same, because, ‘three persons in one God’ is catholic teaching. ‘paul saves’ is not, unless i’m mistaken. i do understand the scripture now that you’ve explained it, thank you!
 
PRmerger said:
Would the above then apply to professing “I believe in 3 Persons in 1 God” then, too?

There’s a whole lot o’ folks (read: Muslims, Jews, atheists, Unitarians, JWs, Sabbatarians) who don’t understand what you mean when you say that. At at ime when people are already confused about the nature of the Godhead, Christians need to be very clear that we profess 1 God. Not 3.
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The Trinity is an important affirmation of the Faith (I’m sure you will agree). It would be problematic for me to avoid that and still hold an accurate understanding of Christ’s nature.

That is qualitatively different than what you are talking about. It is not integral to the gospel or the faith to go out of our way to point out how important WE are to the process of salvation.

So, if I were talking to a Muslim, I would definitely impress upon him or her the importance of the Trinity. I would not impress upon him or her the importance of Myself as their savior. I would preach only Christ and him crucified.
PRmerger said:
Will you stop professing that you believe in 3 Persons in 1 God?
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No.
 
bisco said:
i don’t think it’s quite the same, because, ‘three persons in one God’ is catholic teaching. ‘paul saves’ is not, unless i’m mistaken. i do understand the scripture now that you’ve explained it, thank you!
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Paul saves is indeed Catholic teaching.

It is found right there in Romans.

However, just like every single 1-sentence profession, it always needs to be followed by further catechesis.
 
ltwin said:
The Trinity is an important affirmation of the Faith (I’m sure you will agree). It would be problematic for me to avoid that and still hold an accurate understanding of Christ’s nature.

That is qualitatively different than what you are talking about. It is not integral to the gospel or the faith to go out of our way to point out how important WE are to the process of salvation.

So, if I were talking to a Muslim, I would definitely impress upon him or her the importance of the Trinity. I would not impress upon him or her the importance of Myself as their savior. I would preach only Christ and him crucified.

No.
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Look, ltwin: your grievance with me is that I made a statement that Paul saves, without providing further explication.

My rejoinder is that no one sentence ejaculation stands on its own.

So your grievance with me applies to any one sentence doctrine, which you may be professing at any time as you evangelize.
 
i understand that the church accepts all of scripture. i just don’t think they single that one out as teaching. the ccc does mention how we can add to Christ’s sacrifice though, iirc.
 
PRmerger said:
Look, ltwin: your grievance with me is that I made a statement that Paul saves, without providing further explication.

My rejoinder is that no one sentence ejaculation stands on its own.

So your grievance with me applies to any one sentence doctrine, which you may be professing at any time as you evangelize.
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It is about priorities. Explaining the Trinity takes priority over explaining what Paul meant in Romans 11 and 1 Timothy. In a discussion with Muslims, the Trinity will HAVE to be addressed. Paul’s statements on how he saved those he served in Christ is probably not going to have to be explained—UNLESS I first bring it up. Therefore, I will not bring it up, because all I really need to be focused on is Christ as Savior.
 
bisco said:
i understand that the church accepts all of scripture. i just don’t think they single that one out as teaching. the ccc does mention how we can add to Christ’s sacrifice though, iirc.
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👍
 
They are really saved when they stand before the Lord on judgement day and He says so. Think your ready?
 
ltwin said:
It is about priorities. Explaining the Trinity takes priority over explaining what Paul meant in Romans 11 and 1 Timothy. In a discussion with Muslims, the Trinity will HAVE to be addressed. Paul’s statements on how he saved those he served in Christ is probably not going to have to be explained—UNLESS I first bring it up. Therefore, I will not bring it up, because all I really need to be focused on is Christ as Savior.
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I don’t disagree with anything here.

All 1-sentence doctrines do not stand on their own.
 
bisco said:
no, i hope He gives me more time to improve.🙂
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The problem with that is that we then also have more time to sin. 😃 Truly, everyday should be treated as our last, and it will be our last, someday. We should live as if we knew we were on the way to judgment today. It would change the way most of us live our lives, unfortunately.

As you say, hopefully the time God gives us will be used to improve, to be transformed. 👍
 
Servant19 said:
How can you tell the difference?

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Only one came down as Human, suffered and died and rose again on the third day.

We have a ONE TRUE GOD, that is not only Divine, but is human, and showed us, as a human, how only he is human and Divine.

No other god has ever done this. Only the one true God.

The Old Testament predicted what God would do, and it was done to the T.
 
zackly. i went last saturday, and confess every morning and evening until the next sacrament.😉
 
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