How is Bayonetta Satanic?

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Just before my last response to the Lost one I didn’t believe we were dealing with someone who can think objectively about the material that he is immersed in. It is understandable. He is dependent on this stuff in more ways than one so he can’t see anything wrong with any fantasy because something designed purely for entertainment and which “fictionalizes” reality, to him, can have no influence on the reader or viewer because it is purely entertainment and based totally on imagination.
Last time I read my own posts, I have clearly cited how non-objective the world of literature is without so much referencing my ‘dependence’ on it. Then again, anyone so immersed in his hatred for the human imagination can’t really see that because he’s blinded by the size of his ego.
Like a drug addict some people can’t do without their vice and see nothing wrong with it.
You do know slander is a sin right?
I’ll pray for you too and Lost.
I can’t see how effective prayers from a borderline heretic are.
…it deserves our righteous anger. I take Fr. Corapi’s example right now though in that I refuse to have any further discourse with someone who slanders our church, Jesus or clergy. The sad thing is that some who do this, CLAIM to be Catholic but are just wolves in sheeps clothing (or witches in muggle’s clothing depending on your level of understanding).
Riiight… you follow an increasingly disobedient ex-priest and claim to be Catholic yourself. Your hypocrisy never ceases to rear its ugly head. :rolleyes:
 
So, there’s been a 16 page argument over a video game?
No, just an obsessed anti-fantasy nut trying to make obscure connections to the game with Harry Potter and the Da Vinci Code. Some people just can’t let go of their soap box.
 
Has anyone read some of Michael O’brien’s work on Harry Potter. I haven’t read them, but I am disturbed that with almost every discussion on this site(that I have seen) the harry potter arguments get very nasty. Here is a link to his site: studiobrien.com/

Could the harry potter people have some feedback to this?
 
Has anyone read some of Michael O’brien’s work on Harry Potter. I haven’t read them, but I am disturbed that with almost every discussion on this site(that I have seen) the harry potter arguments get very nasty. Here is a link to his site: studiobrien.com/

Could the harry potter people have some feedback to this?
As Jharek stated, there’s already been a critique of O’Brien that cracks his credibility.
This weird thing about dragons is the pet idea of Michael O’Brien, and it always amazes me that so many Catholics have paid attention to it. He contradicts himself in his book, misunderstands some of the fantasy works he attempts to analyze, and even abuses Christian theology. His overview of dragon imagery in world mythology is selective, inadequate, and inaccurate. The book is simply terrible, and yet I keep finding people who take it seriously.

O’Brien’s favorite trick is tossing around certain inexplicable words to lead you by the nose. He compares fantasy works with “traditional” fairy tales, but never explains what he means by “traditional.” Dungeons and Dragons is a “cult,” but he never explains why he calls it that. Dragons are positive symbols in China because of “dualistic eastern religions,” but he doesn’t explain why dualism would lead to positive dragon symbols. Nor does he explain why serpents are consistently negative in Zoroastrianism, which is unquestionably dualistic. He mentions Tiamat from the Enuma Elish as a sort of dragon and seems to think that helps his case, but he’s apparently unaware that Tiamat’s vanquisher, Marduk, has serpents and dragons among his sacred symbols. He claims J. R. R. Tolkien is on his side in all this, but he is apparently unaware of Tolkien’s Farmer Giles of Ham, which contains a tamed dragon, the very thing O’Brien claims will drag children into neo-paganism.

When attacking the work of Madeline L’Engle, he criticizes her for describing cherubim as dragon-like, apparently unaware that in ancient iconography, cherubim are winged sphinxes. He is also apparently unaware that seraphim are winged serpents with legs–that’s a positive use of snake imagery right out of the Bible. He also gives no account, that I remember, of John 3.14 or of the good dragon, representing Mordecai, who battles the evil dragon in the additions to Esther. Scripture does not contain a univocal use of serpent imagery, so there can be no basis for a Christian argument that snakes in fiction must always represent only one thing, all the time, unless we’re prepared to condemn the Bible as a confused neo-pagan work.

He trips over his theology on a few occasions. In an attempt to discuss beauty as a property of being and the symbolic use of beauty in fairy stories, he gets confused and ends up–I hope by accident–saying pretty people are inherently better than ugly people. Even though he praises fairy tales for showing evildoers as ugly and do-gooders as beautiful, he turns around in one of his essays on Harry Potter and attacks J. K. Rowling for doing the very same thing.

During that aforementioned criticism of L’Engle, he criticizes her for (correctly) depicting evil as non-being, even though he admits she’s basically right on that point. But though O’Brien himself (correctly) understands demons as beings as wholly dedicated to evil as beings can be, and (correctly) criticizes L’Engle for a universalist bent, he (incorrectly, very incorrectly!) says some living human beings are the same way, “completely ruled by evil.” Sometimes he sounds more like a Lutheran or Calvinist than a Catholic.

He also excuses George MacDonald for his universalism. In Lilith, MacDonald depicts even Satan being saved, and O’Brien gives this a pass, but for some reason, that sort of thing is absolutely condemnable when Madeline L’Engle does it. He also praises MacDonald for depicting Lilith being converted back to good, even though she’s a demonic figure, though he condemns the depiction of the conversion of other demonic figures. The heroic characters in Lilith also use magic, just as Lilith does–yet when discussing Harry Potter and other fantasy works, he condemns books where both heroes and villains employ magic. For some reason, the use of magic by both good and evil is something O’Brien is willing to excuse in works by the authors he favors. O’Brien simply can’t be consistent in his criticism, so how can anyone seriously expect fantasists to use ideas like O’Brien’s as a moral guide for writing their work?

O’Brien may be a fine novelist. I know from experience he’s a competent painter. But in the realms of folklore or literary criticism the man is a sophomore, the Richard Dawkins of Catholic literary moral criticism, making facile arguments based on some master key to interpreting stories that he claims to have discovered, and huffily dismissing anyone who disagrees with him as “illiterate.” I do not understand why anyone treats A Landscape with Dragons or O’Brien’s essays on this subject as anything other than an embarrassment.
 
I know that he is a bit paranoid and may have some problems with Dragons, but does he not raise some interesting points in his articles on his site?
 
I know that he is a bit paranoid and may have some problems with Dragons, but does he not raise some interesting points in his articles on his site?
No more interesting to me than any other paranoid writer on the internet.
 
I know that he is a bit paranoid and may have some problems with Dragons, but does he not raise some interesting points in his articles on his site?
I wrote a critique of O’Brien myself when he appeared on Women of Grace. I’ll have to post it for you later though as I’m a little too weary right now.

What I can say right now though is the man is rife with inconsistencies.
 
Then again, anyone so immersed in his hatred for the human imagination can’t really see that because he’s blinded by the size of his ego.
Apparently imagination = adaptations of occult beliefs and myths
You do know slander is a sin right?
Agreed. That is why I didn’t call any names. Another sin is hypocrisy by the way.
I can’t see how effective prayers from a borderline heretic are.
Just as effective as prayers from any other sinner … even yourself believe it or not. Faith and repentence is all you need for effecetive prayer I think.
Riiight… you follow an increasingly disobedient ex-priest and claim to be Catholic yourself. Your hypocrisy never ceases to rear its ugly head. :rolleyes:
My apologies to all for my ignorance. I had no idea about the allegations and recent events surrounding Fr. Corapi until after my last post. Notwithstanding that I hope my hypocrisy is not half as ugly as those semi nude profane excuses for heroes in what seems to be your manga of Choice Lost: Mahou Sensei Negima. I guess we really are all hyprocrites eh my brother in Christ.
 
No, just an obsessed anti-fantasy nut trying to make obscure connections to the game with Harry Potter and the Da Vinci Code. Some people just can’t let go of their soap box.
Just to correct the errant Wanderer in his path of destruction. I am not anti-fantasy. I rather enjoy it. I do have a problem when people try to pass off unoriginal (not creative) concepts already occurring in occultism (witchcraft etc.) as tools to defeat the very evil that these practices and myths represent. The details show a more than coincidental connection between the crafts and symbols used in some off these titles and the powers used in the stories are undeniable. Even by the writers themselves sometimes.
 
I know that he is a bit paranoid and may have some problems with Dragons, but does he not raise some interesting points in his articles on his site?
Friend even if there were no inconsistencies in O’brien’s writings or views alot members of the “cult of Potter” will find something objectionable to say about him. Maybe his favorite colour or some of his arms being longer than the other. The fact is that inconsistencies do not prove that everything the man writes is errant. Inconsistencies only says that he may have a bias. I don’t know that I would call a winged sphynx a dragon and neither would I call a seraphim a legged serpent as the descriptions of the seraphim are not clear and concrete. But be that as it may to some people Potter is perfectly innocent and suitable for reading by impressionable young children because they are smart and strong willed enough to know that the magic in Potter is not like the magic practiced and believed in by witches int he real world. Right.
 
I don’t want to defend or “attack” anyone by saying this, but speaking of violence, how do you explain the Crusades back in the days? Those were directly armed conflicts against the churches enemies to reclaim Jerusalem
 
I don’t want to defend or “attack” anyone by saying this, but speaking of violence, how do you explain the Crusades back in the days? Those were directly armed conflicts against the churches enemies to reclaim Jerusalem
Not to go too much off track here. The crusades were about more than just Jerusalem. The Muslims had been invading different parts of Europe and Jerusalem was but one of many. There was also not one event / war called the crusades but rather eight campaigns at different times in history and had different objectives. Along with the justified reclaiming of Christian territory from invaders there were admittedly unjusified acts committed against innocent Muslims (men, women and children) by christians but that was not the mandate of the crusades of it’s entirety.

If your country or a close ally of it was invaded tomorrow. I don’t think anyone can argue against your military taking up arms against the invaders. Violence is justified if the purpose is to protect the innocent directly or as a result of a special calling from God.

I’m not sure if you are referring to anything specific but if it is Dante’s Inferno (Video game) then I would say read the synopsis to find out why his war against the armies of darkness does not fall into the same category as a crusade. I have never played any good video game (save one from the 1990’s - can’t recall the name) I which the protagonist is not fighting demons for his own personal reasons and not God’s.

If anyone knows of a good one please share.
 
Ancient, mythological farce is what you mean. Does not change the fact that once you fictionalize something, it ceases to be the same thing. A toy gun doesn’t become a hyper blaster just because I pretend it is. It doesn’t make them the same.

Use logic. It might save your sanity someday.
Oh now I get it :rolleyes:

Since fictionalizing something makes it cease to be the same as the original meaning then two men marrying is not really marriage. Right. So why are God’s people making a big deal of this again since it obviously is not real…it’s fiction. All they did was take the same “word” Marriage and change it’s properties to mean something else yes?

Marriage is the union between a man and a woman for the procreation of the species etc etc. Gay marriage is the union between two men and not the procreation of the species etc etc. OK. So since marriage is fictionalized for gays then we should have nothing to worry about because it’s not real anymore. Words have absolutely no meaning.

Wake up brother you’re sleeping deeply.
 
Intellectually dishonest is what I would call a biased view of an author’s work that only has the effect of dismissing anything he writes of value because “some” of the things he may have written are questionable. Character assassination somehow is enough to dismiss what someone says without looking into it yourself.

Instead of relying only on their (O’Brien and others who criticize Potter) work try cross referencing some of the claims they make instead of trying to poke holes at only the things that may be inaccurate.

It is telling, however, that some of the writings condemning these anti-Potter books have been endorsed by Catholic excorcists and Catholic luminaries alike. Somehow that stuff isn’t important. What is important is that THEIR opinion is just an opinion with no basis of fact. But somehow YOUR opinion is informed and objective.
 
Apparently imagination = adaptations of occult beliefs and myths
Indeed and more. It involves taking such myths and stories and making them your own. It’s what Tolkien did and looked what that did for him.
Agreed. That is why I didn’t call any names. Another sin is hypocrisy by the way.
You need a dictionary.
slander n] - a false, malicious statement (spoken or published), especially one which is injurious to a person’s reputation; the making of such a statement
Just as effective as prayers from any other sinner … even yourself believe it or not. Faith and repentence is all you need for effecetive prayer I think.
Repentance? Well apparently, I don’t see that in anti-fantasy bigots-in-denial.
Notwithstanding that I hope my hypocrisy is not half as ugly as those semi nude profane excuses for heroes in what seems to be your manga of Choice Lost: Mahou Sensei Negima.
If we’re going to talk nudity and make it somehow an excuse to call someone a hypocrite then you shouldn’t be upholding the Bible since the nudity and gore makes the stuff in my manga look mild.

The thing is you accuse me of slandering the Church (which I haven’t) yet at the same time you just hailed an increasingly dissident EX-priest. You are actually guilty of both slander and hypocrisy at the same time.

Sad.
 
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