You are very correct. This thread is already gone far afield of the OP’s question.
I OWN BAYONETTA
No offense, but that’s a bunch of hooey. The thing about the occult is that it’s all a bunch of phony bologna from beginning to end. There’s no power in any of those symbols. It’s nonsense. By believing in them you are actually more likely to fall into sin than by ignoring them for the foolishness they are.
Satanism is not about simply committing “real” acts of sin as you say. It is about indulging in every desire or activity (whether spoken, thought of or performed) which is sinful, in direct disobedience to God’s laws.I OWN BAYONETTA
First!
No, Bayonetta is not satanic.
Real satanism?
It’s clearly a work of fiction. So there’s no danger of committing real idolatry or real murder (which is what satanism is about as far as I can tell.) As a parent, I would much rather my kids play Bayonetta than letting them join a real life satanic cult or read a real life satanic book.
Research the 9 satanic statements and see what contemporaty satanism is about. You are obviously mistaken if you think that traditional holywood satanism is really what it’s all about.
There are so many problems with this concept from a theological and spiritual perspective. A friend of my friend is… SO she has a liaison for the demons. Thats just as bad friend. If you associate yourself with a drug dealer, not drugs themselves does that mean you are clean?
Firstly the Church has already strongly objected to Harry Potter. Secondly the problem is not becoming what you watch so much as being influenced by it. Watching gangster movies has not been proven to cause kids to turn out to be gangsters however it has been shown to be a strong negative factor in the anger management abilities of young people and the propensity to violent acts. Thirdly you are totally discounting the subliminal effects of the symbols and themes shown in these games which are powerful enough to some people for them to use them in occult ritual worship and divination.Pro-witchcraft?
The protagonist is a witch and she seems pretty cool, so if you like Harry Potter you’ll love what she can do. Personaly, I’m no more likely to become a witch from watching her than I am likely to be a Kryptonian from watching superman. I’d feel differently if she was doing religious stuff but her witchcraft (so far) is as secularized as Superman. She even has to lug around a giant key just like Superman!
How would you know if they are particularly demonic or not if you are not familiar with demonic symbols and those used in occult practices by satanists? Bayonetta as far as I understand and see uses letters of the “angelic alphabet” and angelic symbols along with various egyptian hieroglyphs. Both of which are used in magik/magic rituals by satanists and other occultists.
I don’t know the Pope’s take on Bayonetta or specific video game for that matter but because he has not spoken against it does not make it OK. You have your own mind and I think you can put two and two together yourself. If the Pope condemns glorifying violence and also condemns young people exposing themselves to the occult in the media connect the dots and draw your own conclusions. Jesus never condemned stem cell research but we all know the Church’s position on that based on the moral and spiritual principles set forth in the text don’t we?
Catholicism isn’t a religion of “feelings” even “sickly ones”, it’s a religion of logic. Emotions are fallible and they shouldn’t be used to dictate our faith.
No, she isn’t. Real witchcraft doesn’t give you the ability to float around, attack people with your hair, and shoot people with guns in your shoes. Real witchcraft is when a bunch of middle aged women stand around naked in the local park and chant prayers to the “goddess”.
Source for this accusation that it “teaches you on a subconscious level”? I’d like to see documents from the game company that prove that this game was designed with this intention in mind, or perhaps a link to a psychological study that shows this affect.
Real witchcraft is a bunch of nice middle aged ladies with smelly incense and color coded candles. There’s no power in it. It’s no more “evil” than any other non-Christian religion.
Source?
Yes and no. Yes Catholicism is not about feelings specifically. There is a rational aspect to the Church’s doctrine but there is also one that cannot be explained by merre logic…it’s called faith.
You are both wrong. You just described wiccans not witches. Wicca is a soft, new-agey style of witchcraft similar to (for you martial arts aficionados) how judo is a soft version of jujutsu.
I personally would not be able to say if they do have magic power or not. What you are referring to is the specific rituals of the Church of Satan, not satanism itself as a whole occult religious movement. One thing I do know is that if we Catholics have access to great power through holy prayers and by the power of the Spirit of God, it is not far fetched to believe that there are evil “Powers” that can be accessed by satanists and other occult practitioners through ritual and unholy prayers to evil spirits to have their will done. We wrestle not against flesh and blood…" my friend.
Again you’re referring to wicca not witchcraft.
Firstly Harry Potter would not be very easily consumed by both the young and young at heart (as it is now) if it had “real” witchcraft in it. So they use some artefacts and concepts of sorcery to build the story. But it is all sorcery.
Sure but if a witch (could you explain why you don’t consider wicca to be real witchcraft?) points a wand at someone and says “Avada Kedavra”, absolutely nothing happens. Harry Potter isn’t real witchcraft.
Harry Potter doesn’t have ritual magic (except for a couple things Voldemort does, and he’s evil). You point a wand and say a word. There’s no rituals, no invocation of pagan deities, no actual witchcraft. It’s X-Men with wands and pointy hats. Anyone who is into real witchcraft would recognize that Harry Potter is absolutely nothing even remotely like any witchcraft performed in the real world.
Where do I get the idea that they celebrate Christian holidays? Because they celebrate Christmas and not yule. Never once in any of the books are any pagan deities mentioned. JKR is a Christian. She has no reason to try to convert kids to witchcraft. No more than JRR Tolkien had in any case. There were wizards in Lord of the Rings too, remember? And it doesn’t matter what Christmas trees were about hundreds of years ago, it matters what Christmas trees are about NOW, in the modern era. Pagans don’t have permanent dibs on everything, you know?
I am not here to argue if the methods employed by Harry are in fact “authentic”, but suffice it to say, if a witch chose to use a wand and audible words con conjure something up there could be a supernatural result. The result would have dark and unholy consequenses but there would be an effect nevertheless.
Like I said, I am not here to argue the authenticity of the ritual or non rituals of harry potter. The point is that harry potter is a witch and him practicing magic in these books and movies, using some witchcraft terms and references and symbols is a soft way of introducing and desensitizing people into hardcore witchcraft.
You have a lot of faith in witchcraft. Are you a witch? Because I’m a Catholic and my faith teaches me that there’s only one God and that the so-called “goddess” of witchcraft doesn’t exist. There’s absolutely zero power in any of it. It has no more power than Scientology does. It’s just made up nonsense. It’s only dangerous because it distracts people from what’s actually important.
Source for this shocking claim? I’d love to see evidence of actual real magic being wielded by witches… Do you have videos of them flying? Turning into animals? Changing water into wine? No? Huh… The “consequences” of witchcraft are the same as the consequences of any other kind of idolatry.
Harry Potter is a wizard… like Gandalf. If you want to talk “witches” we should discuss Hermione Granger or Luna Lovegood or one of the other female characters. Harry Potter does NOT use witchcraft terms or references or symbols and the books are NOT intended to introduce or desensitize people into hardcore witchcraft.
I am calling a spade a spade. And your Dora example is absurd. There’s no witchcraft in Harry Potter. None. Zero. Zilch. JKR could have called them “mutants” instead of “wizards” and the books would be the exact same thing. Certain people in Harry Potter are born with a biological ability to control a naturally occurring energy and use that energy to effect change in their environment. That’s not witchcraft, any more your own body’s ability to use oxygen and glucose to create carbon dioxide, water, and ATP is.
Yes I understand you but I still disagree with you. Are you saying that a witch is different from a wizard? I am not talking symatics here. A witch and a wizard are basically the same thing except for gender.
I was just joking about the witch/wizard gender issue. A little bit of light hearted teasing that sort of fell flat. And why do you keep ignoring my comments about Lord of the Rings? I understood what you wrote about Dora, I addressed it when I reiterated, repeatedly, again and again, that Harry Potter is not witchcraft. Therefore there’s no prostitution episode or whatever so your analogy is baseless. And I don’t care what that exorcist says, I am not bound to his teachings. As fellow Catholics we are allowed to disagree on issues. St. Thomas More felt it was OK to burn heretics, should we all go burn heretics? Nope.
You are missing the point totally and I will not repeat myself again. Read this:
You don’t understand real witchcraft what it sybolises. Using real spells or no spells , having something happen or not as a result is all irrelevant. It all doesn’t change the fact that the movie is glorifying witchcraft. And witchcraft is sinful. In witchcraft by the way the witch may or may not visibly perform a ritual before the spell is cast. THere are many websites online now about casting spells and just as you can pray mentally so can the witch conjour spirits and spells up mentally as well so don’t look for the devil with a pitchfork and horns…he is sometimes disguised as an angel of light.
Have they mentioned Jesus or the God of Abraham in any of these stories? Pagans can say the word Christmas and not burn up you know. They can also celebrate a secular version of Christmas the way the popular media focuses on everything except the reason for the season…Jesus. That doesn’t mean anything if they say or celebrate Christmas in Harry Potter but are practicing witchcraft. Again, a prositute can be handing out bibles while plying her trade and that doesnt change the fact that she is living in sin. Why would I want to watch a movie glorifying a prostitute celebrating a secular Christmas.
The point of feelings I made is just to illustrate that feelings are not bad we just should not be led by them but be concious of them nevertheless. If you are a member of our Church then witchcraft is forbidden …full stop. There is no argument that will change that fact so paranoia doen’t really come into the picture. You are right, the truth does not change and the truth is not something either, it is someone…Jesus Christ “I am the way the TRUTH and the light” he said. St. Paul writes “do not be a part of the darkness but rather expose it”. But I guess some of us know better than them. I don’t know that withcraft is the truth…sorry.
No we should not but we would do well to stay away from them and not copy them or look up to them right? Harry Potter, a sorcerer is the hero in a movie about witches. That is a fact. You can deny that he is a witch from now till the cows come home…the author herself called him a witch herself. She also indicated that she used real aspects of witchcraft to make the story more authentic. How much more proof do you want?
This is what I’ve been talking about. Did I mention JKR in my last post? Did I say she was out to get anyone? No I did not. But you get defensive and offended. Why? Is she a relative of yours vash? If she is then I understand why you would take my criticism of HER WORK so personally. I never cast any aspersions about her as a person. I tell you, some people act as though they are afflicted by some Harry Potter spirit when you try to have a meaningful discussion on these books. I do not know what JKR’s intent was but I do think that the effect is a subversive one. IF she has the Harry Potter spirit herself maybe it told her how to write it to have the desired effect?
Fantasy Magic =/= Real Magic(k)
Sorry but both Wiki and National Geographic classify Wicca as witchcraft. In fact, just googling the term is bound to get you numerous definitions and references to neo-pagan religions. I’d rather refer to those.
Real sticks don’t shoot out sparks, fire, or green smoke.
Sorry but Fr. Euteneuer does nothing but make bare assertions with appeal to his own authority (exorcism) on subjects that he is not an authority on (literature/fiction).
Uh yes it is. You’ve heard of stage magic right? Are you saying the Church condemns that? I don’t think so. The CCC specifically specifies its definitions of witchcraft and occult. Magic in fantasy fiction such as Harry Potter does not fall under that. Stage magic doesn’t fall under that either. In the Harry Potter universe (as well as plenty other fantasy fictional universes including LotR), magic is a natural ability found within a certain group of people.
The reverse is also the same. A Christian won’t be possessed by saying Wingardium Leviosa. There’s no mention of God in LotR (yes, I will use it as an example whether you like it or not) either yet its considered a Catholic work. Dante’s Inferno, whilst presenting itself as Christian, is rife with references to Greek, Roman, and even Arthurian mythology.
Fantasy magic is representative of real magic just as the cross in representative of Jesus’ sacrifice for the sake of our sins. As I said before. The devil doesn’t walk around with horns and a pitch fork but when he is represented as such it is merly to symbolize non material aspects in a material way. Similarly magic in stories like harry potter may be greatly exagerated in its effects but there is some truth in them as these exaggerations “REPRESENT” the intent (whether spiritual or physical) of the will of the witch. The use of the elements: fire, water etc. in Harry Potter are mirror copies of these saame elements use in actual witchcraft. To say that they are not real witches since in the book they are a race born with powers called witches is to be disingenuous. The references to actual witchcraft is obvious, to anyone who knows about witchcraft, from the terms, concepts and symbols depicted in the movie.