How is Bayonetta Satanic?

[Lost_Wanderer]

Please take a hint and stop directing us to sites of questionable nature.

How is this relevant? Easy.

If HP doesn’t have any association with real witchcraft, then why have they produce Tarot Cards?
wizardandwitch.com/wizards-tarot/

So…? This isn’t even Harry Potter. It’s just a blog entry where some net noob must’ve just slapped a Harry Potter tag.

All I see is a tarot deck based on a wizarding school theme. What’s your point? Anybody can make something like that. Heck, I could make a tarot deck using Digimon characters if I wanted to. I could also make original characters based on a Tarot card theme.

That doesn’t mean I practice Tarot or promote its use. It’s the same way just because some fantasy writer/artist uses Christian symbols to represent a religious sect in his/her fictional universe doesn’t mean he/she is out to promote Christianity.

You think what you’ve demonstrated is easy? Frankly, it just demonstrated more of your ignorance. Are you even aware that Tarot cards can also be use for harmless games and not necessarily divination?

Well it could be that this real witchcraft element, some how made its way into this fantasy story, it is part of franchise anyhow.
harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Cartomancy

But if HP is only fantasy, then why is our real world Divination involved in it?

It’s not real world divination. Real-world divination is a load of rubbish. It doesn’t predict anything.

Even in the context of the Harry Potter universe, it is also regarded in a closely similar manner (just ask Hermione Granger).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes they do (not all)
I’m talking about the obstruction of the truth, and how that it is wrong.

Oh well then you should know how much you’re in trouble right now because the only one obstructing truth here is you.

I tell some 9 year old that sorcery is of satan, and he goes “but Harry Potter is a good guy! that can’t be true”

(that was a dumb argument I had with a cousin of mine)

Yes that does sound dumb… in more ways than one. What do you got against reality, really? Is it so hard for you and anybody you know to distinguish between what’s real and what’s not?

Harry Potter lives in a fictional world. So does Bayonetta. Heck theirs are just two of the many worlds I wish God would just let me escape to. However, this world (our world) is different. It’s so simple yet you’re deliberately refusing to understand that.

 

[Providence_777]

Please take a hint and stop directing us to sites of questionable nature.

I’m sorry,
Just showing that other sources share some of my observations. Any specific websites that you would prefer to get links to? (instead of the random sites I’ve been linking)

It’s just a blog entry where some net noob must’ve just slapped a Harry Potter tag.

Hp fans want to have the cards that are mentioned in the book, people are asking for real tarot cards because they use them in the fiction.

Heck, I could make a tarot deck using Digimon characters if I wanted to. I could also make original characters based on a Tarot card theme.

You can get an inflatable sex doll, and use it a throw pillow. But why even mess with something that was designed for ill intent.

t’s the same way just because some fantasy writer/artist uses Christian symbols to represent a religious sect in his/her fictional universe doesn’t mean he/she is out to promote Christianity.

That is very true, but JK is not who is in question. I am 100% convinced that she has no ill intent, but I can not say the same about the author of her inspiration. Evil spirits talk to us every day, she easily could have had her ideas twisted as she formulated the concepts. If she had a completed understanding about how wicked witchcraft is, I doubt she have would label the powers of her characters as such.

Frankly, it just demonstrated more of your ignorance. Are you even aware that Tarot cards can also be use for harmless games and not necessarily divination?

Please I’m not looking to fight you, we are on the same side. We are both Christians trying to figure out how to navigate through the darkness (in the world, and in ourselves)

It’s not real world divination. Real-world divination is a load of rubbish. It doesn’t predict anything.

It’s not about if the prediction are true. We are not suppose to mess with it. And if it was such rubbish, then why is it condemned?

 

[Providence_777]

Oh well then you should know how much you’re in trouble right now because the only one obstructing truth here is you.

What truth am I obstructing? Tell me how anything I have said contradicts the Holy Bible. Show me, and I’ll repent.

What do you got against reality, really?

What do you mean?

Harry Potter lives in a fictional world. So does Bayonetta. Heck theirs are just two of the many worlds I wish God would just let me escape to. However, this world (our world) is different. It’s so simple yet you’re deliberately refusing to understand that.

I understand that it’s different, that is one of the problems is that it’s different.

There is an exercise that we can do, it’ll show you how God might see the situation.

it’s a short simple second-person story that we would develop. It takes a lot creativity, and sky is the limit you design your part any way you want (even if the whole thing is about disrespecting me, it would still be cool) I just have to give you the theme and rules.

Would you want to try it?
If you like, it can be done in pm.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’m sorry,
Just showing that other sources share some of my observations. Any specific websites that you would prefer to get links to? (instead of the random sites I’ve been linking)

The fact that these sources share your views should tell you enough about how reliable they are.

Hp fans want to have the cards that are mentioned in the book, people are asking for real tarot cards because they use them in the fiction.

Cards like this are not even so much as implied in the story. I should know. I’ve read all seven. I have never heard of a Tarot card that showed a Professor of Solar Magic.

You can get an inflatable sex doll, and use it a throw pillow. But why even mess with something that was designed for ill intent.

Again, this is either a false comparison or someone can actually do that without coming off as a pervert. Either way, I’m still right. I have demonstrated clearly how somebody can use Tarot cards without resorting to divination. I don’t see how you can worry about why I would use a tarot card theme when the danger is no longer there.

If you really insist on asking why anyways, then the only answer you’ll get is that I have every artistic right to do something like that.

That is very true, but JK is not who is in question. I am 100% convinced that she has no ill intent, but I can not say the same about the author of her inspiration. Evil spirits talk to us every day, she easily could have had her ideas twisted as she formulated the concepts. If she had a completed understanding about how wicked witchcraft is, I doubt she have would label the powers of her characters as such.

Your logic could very well be shot at Tolkien and Lewis who are no different from J.K. Rowling who used the mythos of pagan religions as basis for cosmology. You are basically saying that Satan is the author of mythology. Mythology is simply the ancient precursor to literature and such things are nothing more than workings of human imagination. There is nothing inherently demonic about the imagination. It’s when people start treating their myths as true that the demonic is involved.

If anything, you’re just continuously demonstrating your desperate and deliberate attempt to blur what is real and what is not. I’ll say it to you again.

Fantasy Magic =/= Real Magic(k?)

Please I’m not looking to fight you, we are on the same side. We are both Christians trying to figure out how to navigate through the darkness (in the world, and in ourselves)

Look I can see you mean well but to be blunt, views like yours are what fuels the misconceptions people have about us Christians.

It’s not about if the prediction are true. We are not suppose to mess with it. And if it was such rubbish, then why is it condemned?

Again, review the formula. The reason why we’re not told to dabble in things is because they are not within our power to use. It’s a different case in a fictional world.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

What truth am I obstructing? Tell me how anything I have said contradicts the Holy Bible. Show me, and I’ll repent.

I’m not a Sola Scripturist and you don’t need a catechism to prove fantasy is not the same as reality. Unfortunately, that’s the very truth you are obstructing.

What do you mean?

You yourself just really can’t grasp how different reality is from fiction, just like your 9-year-old cousin.

I understand that it’s different, that is one of the problems is that it’s different.

How is it being different a problem? The only real problem is that people can’t tell that difference.

There is an exercise that we can do, it’ll show you how God might see the situation.

it’s a short simple second-person story that we would develop. It takes a lot creativity, and sky is the limit you design your part any way you want (even if the whole thing is about disrespecting me, it would still be cool) I just have to give you the theme.

Would you want to try it?
If you like, it can be done in pm.

Look I’ve seen enough of your skill with coming up with bare assertions and false comparisons to say that I’ll pass. Besides, I got my own story to work on. It’s actually a nice fantasy piece that makes fun of people with views like yours.

As you can see, I’m a writer and I’m only one minor subject away before graduating. I’ve studied mythology and literary theory. I’ve had plenty of experience writing stories with a fantasy theme. I’ve read many more stories than I write.

I’ve read a book by my country’s leading exorcist and a primer on the New Age published by my own country’s conference of Catholic bishops. I’ve watched many ghost hunting shows and documentaries featuring New Age practioners.

Given all that knowledge, I can tell you right now what I’ve been telling everyone else for the past two pages.

Fantasy Magic =/= Real Magic(k?)

 

[Providence_777]

I’m not a Sola Scripturist and you don’t need a catechism to prove fantasy is not the same as reality. Unfortunately, that’s the very truth you are obstructing.

I’m not saying ho-cus-po-cus is real sorcery, I’m not anti-fantasy either (I’ve completed Final Fantasy X, XII, and I’m going to borrow XIII)

I don’t have a problem with myths either, I just hate that people worshiped the myth characters idols. I don’t kneel to my Goku action figure (yes I collect figurines, please don’t make fun of me)

just like your 9-year-old cousin.

Well they are much older now.

The only real problem is that people can’t tell that difference.

If I told you what I have experienced and seen first hand. You might understand my position.

Look I’ve seen enough of your skill with coming up with bare assertions and false comparisons to say that I’ll pass.

It’ll be fun I promise, with your writing experience, I’ll get to see a real pro at work. The story would only be maybe 4 posts long. I post you post, I post you post. (told ya it would be short)

Fantasy Magic =/= Real Magic(k?)

Dude I know, I’m not saying Harry’s toy wands turn people into frogs in real life.

 

[Providence_777]

I only posted that link because of what was said about demons, I do not mean promote anything anti-Catholic, (I’m a member of this forum, after all)

I just needed to cite the quote I used about the occult (which was not anti-Catholic)

I by no means agree with everything on the site. But they were accurate about a few of the games. (I don’t agree with what they said about Guitar Hero for example)

I understand that they took many games out of context, (but again, everyone wants me to cite my sources, or just find anyone who shares the opinion. So I did)

I mean no disrespect (or any anti-Catholicism) and I apologize if anyone misunderstood me, and took offense.

 

[Providence_777]

Wait Whoa, are talking about the same site? the evangelical one? I did not see such blasphemy I promise I didn’t.

I just skimmed and grabbed looking for a brief explanation on why is occult bad.

I only saw these articles at the bottom of the page. (not linking)
*
Where will YOU spend eternity?

Beware of Spiritism

Harry Potter Wizard from Hell

Ouija Board Dangers

Nostradamus Facts*

I saw nothing else, I was not presented with anything to question if they were Catholic.
I didn’t visit their homepage, bing took me strait to the article I posted.

 

[Providence_777]

The inconstancy is staggering, what I can gather, it would seem that people of varying opinions post their own articles. The article I linked didn’t show that stuff.

You see what happened, I took exactly what was presented without reading in between the lines. And as you see, the falsehoods presented next to truths, help the falsehoods slip right by us.

The same way satan presents us with evil seeds.
He knows we won’t mess with the occult, but if he can spoon feed us just a couple ideas through a fantasy. We are willing to accept it because we no longer fear it to be the real thing.

He burrs the lines with careful weaving, tricking Christians into thinking Pokemon is evil. Meanwhile he tricks the world into thinking upside-down crosses, and pentagrams are cool pop culture. And we let it happen because we thought the fantasy spewing lies wouldn’t affect anyone.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’m not saying ho-cus-po-cus is real sorcery, I’m not anti-fantasy either (I’ve completed Final Fantasy X, XII, and I’m going to borrow XIII)

I don’t have a problem with myths either, I just hate that people worshiped the myth characters idols. I don’t kneel to my Goku action figure (yes I collect figurines, please don’t make fun of me)

Are you aware that with all the sites you’ve just quoted up till now, you’re currently coming off as reeeeally hypocritical? Nobody worships the stuff in Harry Potter either.

And please? Make fun of you? If anything I’m rather envious that you’ve played every FF game I wish I could play on my PS2 (minus FFX-2, I wish I could play that one also…), not to mention you have a PS3 and are about to borrow the very game that’s driving me to want one.

As far as figurines go, I’ll just say one thing. If you’re worried about having one of Goku, you definitely don’t want to see the figurines I’ve got in my bedroom.

Well they are much older now.

Well here’s hoping they’ve demonstrated the capacity to tell what’s real from what’s not better than you can.

If I told you what I have experienced and seen first hand. You might understand my position.

Sorry, the spiritual blindness act isn’t going to cut it.

It’ll be fun I promise, with your writing experience, I’ll get to see a real pro at work. The story would only be maybe 4 posts long. I post you post, I post you post. (told ya it would be short)

Oh boy… I better not regret this. Do it here.

Dude I know, I’m not saying Harry’s toy wands turn people into frogs in real life.

If you believe that, then it’s high time you realize that’s exactly what makes it different from real occult and is no way meant to be put in the same category. Real “wizards and witches” are nothing more than spiritual shams. Their counterparts in fantasy would be those weird gurus who promote untested items of questionable nature and worship obscure gods. On the other hand, a fantasy wizard has real-life counterparts that range from nuclear and military scientists to bombers and an air strike commanders.

 

[Providence_777]

No, no, no that’s not what I meant. I mean that he is clearly responsible for the lies in the content, but because it was mixed with truth, I accepted all of it using my own poor discretion.

(Satan did not in any way convince me or force me. I missed the lies because of my determination to find truth. I admit my fault, in not using more discretion. (I should have made that more clear in my previous post, my apologies.)

I whole heartily agree, I heard on the new (at that time) that people were burning Pika-chu dolls. It was soooo ridiculous (as I am sure you think my argument is)

I am aware of that, the evil is not in the icon. But it’s the use of it that would concern me, as they are presented in pop culture as anti-Christian symbolism.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I am aware of that, the evil is not in the icon. But it’s the use of it that would concern me, as they are presented in pop culture as anti-Christian symbolism.

You have to face the fact that symbols are not absolute so therefore their use and interpretation is virtually up for grabs. The cross itself is no exception. Same goes for the pentagram.

 

[Providence_777]

Are you aware that with all the sites you’ve just quoted up till now, you’re currently coming off as reeeeally hypocritical? Nobody worships the stuff in Harry Potter either.

You haven’t met the people I had to deal with, years ago that same cousin was conjuring spirits, they addressed these spirits using the names of creatures in Harry Potter. I don’t see how the sites I quoted make me seem hypercritical. But if so, then I must correct this. (though I do get how playing the FF games, then bashing HP would be hypocritical)

Sorry, the spiritual blindness act isn’t going to cut it.

I meant to imply nothing of the sort. I’m sorry. I was only referencing to my personal expereinces with people who have radically changed for the worse because of occult influences that they accepted.

And please? Make fun of you? If anything I’m rather envious that you’ve played every FF game I wish I could play on my PS2 (minus FFX-2, I wish I could play that one also…), not to mention you have a PS3 and are about to borrow the very game that’s driving me to want one.
Lost Wanderer;8085310:

As far as figurines go, I’ll just say one thing. If you’re worried about having one of Goku, you definitely don’t want to see the figurines I’ve got in my bedroom.

Hahaha, I’m not worried about it. I was just showing how people can get too caught up in things. Besides, I used to collect Spawn figures. So I know how sick looking a figure can be.

Oh boy… I better not regret this. Do it here.

Ok I’ll post the rules to set it up in my next post. (even if it doesn’t prove anything, I’m glade that your willing to humor me)

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You haven’t met the people I had to deal with, years ago that same cousin was conjuring spirits, they addressed these spirits using the names of creatures in Harry Potter. I don’t see how the sites I quoted make me seem hypercritical. But if so, then I must correct this. (though I do get how playing the FF games, then bashing HP would be hypocritical)

I meant to imply nothing of the sort. I’m sorry. I was only referencing to my personal expereinces with people who have radically changed for the worse because of occult influences that they accepted.

Harry Potter uses a lot of popular mythological creatures. I’d wager plenty that these creatures you speak of appear in other fantasy media as well.

Besides, I’ve told you for the umpteenth time. Just because your cousins were dolts who got themselves duped into confusing fact with fiction, doesn’t make them a case for everybody.

 

[Providence_777]

You have to face the fact that symbols are not absolute so therefore their use and interpretation is virtually up for grabs. The cross itself is no exception. Same goes for the pentagram.

Your right, I understand that.

Ok here it goes…

In this story you have to create a universe, your rules your physics (example: I like warriors, so if I made a universe, people would have to make themselves epically strong to be saved, not in body, but in will. Bravery would be a ticket to heaven in my universe.)

But here are the Four rules, that make this function:
—There must be sentient life
—Sentient life must have free will
—There must be a race of lifeforms that are immortal (like angels)
—You must be the same today, yesterday, and forevermore

Now, if your ready.
How would your universe function?
What would your creation be?
What would they do to please you?

Go nuts, in your universe anything you do is righteous.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

In this story you have to create a universe, your rules your physics (example: I like warriors, so if I made a universe, people would have to make themselves epically strong to be saved, not in body, but in will. Bravery would be a ticket to heaven in my universe.)

But here are the Four rules, that make this function:
—There must be sentient life
—Sentient life must have free will
—There must be a race of lifeforms that are immortal (like angels)
—You must be the same today, yesterday, and forevermore

Now, if your ready.
How would your universe function?
What would your creation be?
What would they do to please you?

Go nuts, in your universe anything you do is righteous.

I smell a deconstructionist trap but I’ll bite and use the universe I’ve been basing on a few fanfiction plot bunnies.

I would consider this world a mix of fantasy and sci-fi. It’s pretty much just like our world except that in this world, there are powerful items. For the sake of this thread, let’s just call them Artifacts for now. The powers of these Artifacts range widely. Some of them are technology-based of the most advanced degree. Others use something that can only be described as magic.

One thing they all have in common though is that they enable their users to transform into powerful costumed super heroes. Many theories abound regarding the origins of these artifacts. Some say it’s lost alien technology. Others say they were tools of the gods. There are theories that tend to mix both. As to how such a universe shall function, I can only say its cosmological laws are simply wired to make it function that way.

As for immortal beings, I can’t really think of any other than the ones normally used like angels and demons. I will say though that the origin of the Artifacts is tied to them.

Other than than all this though, the world is pretty much the same as ours as far as morality and ethics are concerned (rape is still bad, murder is evil etc). Moral Theology is pretty much the same.

An interesting fact however is that these Artifacts have become a tool of sport. Tournaments featuring them have become a world-wide fad that has taken the world by storm. Some of the more technological Artifacts have even been reproduced to ensure that misuse of them is minimized.

 

[Providence_777]

I smell a deconstructionist trap but I’ll bite

Wait, what is a deconstructionist trap?

I don’t wan to trap anyone, but If you tell what one is. (and if it resembles this exercise, then I won’t continue if you prefer not to)

btw: I would buy your manga in a heartbeat, once it’s finished and released.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Wait, what is a deconstructionist trap?

I don’t wan to trap anyone, but If you tell what one is. (and if it resembles this exercise, then I won’t continue if you prefer not to)

From my crude understanding (and I would stress crude), deconstruction is basically looking for something in a text that causes it to fall down on itself, make its contents sound logically inconsistent etc.

Anyways, just continue. I can’t determine if your test is really like that… yet.

btw: I would buy your manga in a heartbeat, once it’s finished and released.

Oho trust me, what I put up there is hardly original. It can even fall under fanfiction if you knew the kind of superheroes Artifact users would transform into.

I keep my more original works offline.

 

[Providence_777]

I smell a deconstructionist trap but I’ll bite and use the universe I’ve been basing on a few fanfiction plot bunnies.

I would consider this world a mix of fantasy and sci-fi. Others use something that can only be described as magic.

One thing they all have in common though is that they enable their users to transform into powerful costumed super heroes. As to how such a universe shall function, I can only say its cosmological laws are simply wired to make it function that way.

As for immortal beings. I will say though that the origin of the Artifacts is tied to them.

Other than than all this though, the world is pretty much the same as ours as far as morality and ethics are concerned

An interesting fact however is that these Artifacts have become a tool of sport. Tournaments featuring them have become a world-wide fad that has taken the world by storm. Some of the more technological Artifacts have even been reproduced to ensure that misuse of them is minimized.

Very very creative, I love it.

Now one of your immortal beings gets envious that you made this glorious intricate world, now they want to take over, because they falsely believe they are greater than the true creator of these artifacts.

and they convince many others to join him, and they are all striped of their powers and ability to use the artifacts as punishment for their rebellion, and are cast out from…well…where ever you had them staying (probably someplace too awesome for words)

Now they are mad, and make their way to your earth with one goal…to make everyone suffer their same fate.

to do this, they must make the humans displease the original creator of the artifacts.

Since these Artifacts were made, the creator must have intended for people to use them (he must be please to see the tournaments that they hold, tournaments are probably unwittingly an offering to him)

So that is were they start. “We must convince the humans to stop these tournaments, and also prevent them from using the artifacts completely, that would indeed displease the Originator”

Now all the sudden, this idea goes around. Some random few people are saying “maybe, these artifacts shouldn’t be used” Of course that idea is not right.

The Originator knows this wicked plot about the fallen trying to end the tournaments, and prevent use of artifacts.

—So what does the Originator do, to combat the fallen?
—What does he want from his people?

btw: the Originator is the good guy in the story, so it will end with him being victorious.