How is Bayonetta Satanic?

[Lost_Wanderer]

This is why society and the mass media have no problem disrespecting Jesus and His church. Do you think that Mohammed (who a prophet, not a god to our Islamic bretheren) could be disrespected like this without the muslim community responding in outrage and dismay in a militant fashion? Many of us Catholics take one extreme or the other. A minority may go crazy and kill abortionists claiming to save lives of the innocent in doing so. Others just brush off insults and mockery of our Lord Jesus by the mass media as just art or not to be taken seriously. There is no protest, no campaign for a public apology from the offenders.

Honestly, don’t you think we are entitled to the same right to caricature our opponents? You can’t stop them from exercising their free speech rights but guess what? Nobody’s stopping you either. We Christians are just as much entitled to use art in the same tactical manner as them. Heck, I do my best to be an example of that. During my days frequenting deviantArt, I’ve seen many artists do the same.

You don’t like it when our religion gets made fun of? Well then, give them a taste of their own medicine. I’m sure we’ve done that plenty with the likes of Obama and Pelosi. Why are you intimidated when they do the same to us? We can just give them more of it because it is our right.

Art and literature aren’t weapons only limited to those who oppose our beliefs. They can be used by anyone, regardless of religion, political affiliation, gender, race, culture etc. As long as we have those with the talent, we can fight them using those same tools as they do. We don’t need petty rallies or whiny boycotts.

You imply you smell cowardice but the only real cowards I see are people who think that literature and art are somehow special privileges only for the secular idiots.

No. I do not agree. That would be to say that Da Vinci code is harmless to those who do not know or understand catholicism and Opus Dei among other things. That would be to say that I could make a cartoon about someone called Benedict Pope who is the leader of a religious movement bent on spreading lies about a mythical god which is really a lie to cover up the fact that he and his priests eat children and drink their blood in a mystical city called the vatican. Then publishing it for kids and labelling it fiction.

Of course it’s harmless. It’s only harmful if you believe it’s true and if you take offense at it. Honestly, do you know only idiots have fallen for Dan Brown’s garbage?

You know when I think about people who make examples like yours, I can already imagine the opposite scenario. Suppose I made a cartoon (no wait, an anime) about a mad scientist called Charles Dawkins. He’s taken over humanity and is brainwashing people into thinking he will lead them into a big, fat golden age via another Enlightenment but he’s really a psychopathic, anti-religious megalomaniac who uses religious believers in inhumane experiments for the sake of his twisted idea of progress. Oh yeah, let’s throw in the fact that he’s actually made a deal with the devil yet publicly professes no belief in him to throw a little flavor of conspiracy.

See what you don’t realize is once something like that pops up, there’s gonna be a lot of steaming atheists and secularists right before the first episode could be aired. They’re gonna be sending their little apologists and critics to ‘clear things up’ but hey, don’t we also do that?

Let’s face facts. When you fictionalize something, it’s not, no never, going to be taken seriously as hard fact. You forget that fiction’s first and foremost goal has always been to entertain people. Teaching truth can only come to close second. You may try to express truth but that isn’t the same as actually trying to put that truth into people’s heads.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

There is no opposing force to teach them what’s true.

Lost Wanderer, you can be the force. Help God in showing the wickedness that sorcery truly is.

We all have our talents for a reason, and I believe it’s to glorify God, and battle against Satan.

Oh come on. Messages like that can be found in plenty of stories, even going back to the classics. Look at Frankenstein.

I’ve played a game called Atelier Iris 2 and the main antagonist is a guy who is trying to become a god by tapping into a power unfit for mortals.

There’s another good game on the PSP called Jeanne d’Arc where the main baddie thinks he is saving his kingdom by consorting with demons. Trust me when I say I saw nothing in the story that tries to make you sympathize.

Don’t you see? The message you seek is already out there. I can’t believe (seriously, I can’t) a cynic like me is saying this but you definitely need to think more positively.

 

[kinja]

Honestly, don’t you think we are entitled to the same right to caricature our opponents? You can’t stop them from exercising their free speech rights but guess what? Nobody’s stopping you either. We Christians are just as much entitled to use art in the same tactical manner as them. Heck, I do my best to be an example of that. During my days frequenting deviantArt, I’ve seen many artists do the same.

You don’t like it when our religion gets made fun of? Well then, give them a taste of their own medicine. I’m sure we’ve done that plenty with the likes of Obama and Pelosi. Why are you intimidated when they do the same to us? We can just give them more of it because it is our right.

Art and literature aren’t weapons only limited to those who oppose our beliefs. They can be used by anyone, regardless of religion, political affiliation, gender, race, culture etc. As long as we have those with the talent, we can fight them using those same tools as they do. We don’t need petty rallies or whiny boycotts.

I disagree with fighting fire with fire and the whole eye for an eye bit. Our Lord came to fullfill that old law with LOVE not vengeance. An eye for an eye and everyone will go blind. How hypocritical is it to disrespect someone’s faith and the articles thereof in retaliation for them doing you what you deem as wrong? It can’t be right to mock that which is Holy. Our teachings strongly condemn such things or have we forgotten our own faith?

I’ve said before that fighting fire with fire will only cause more destruction in this context so we need to let our neighbours know that we strongly object to these things and take steps to mitigate against anyone else trying the same thing. Out jewish brothers and sisters do a good job at seeking out and taking action against any group or person who says or does anything they deem an afront to their ethnicity or religion including but not limited to the tragic Holocaust.

You imply you smell cowardice but the only real cowards I see are people who think that literature and art are somehow special privileges only for the secular idiots.

No I don’t think that anyone has rights or priviledges to use literature but I do believe that any author or publisher should exercise discretion in what material is put out there as a matter of ethics. And if not then anyone has the right to protest and boycott if they so desire the way gays, muslims, jews and many other interest groups have done over the years in order to deter anyone who may be putting offensive or sacrilegious material out there.

Of course it’s harmless. It’s only harmful if you believe it’s true and if you take offense at it. Honestly, do you know only idiots have fallen for Dan Brown’st garbage?

It’s not harmless to those who are not Catholic and those Catholics who do not know their own faith and history. Also I would not call anyone an idiot for believing a convincingly written story anymore than I would call someone an idiot for believing that the Harry Potter series in OK for kids to read and presents no intecement at all for young children to get into occult practices.

See what you don’t realize is once something like that pops up, there’s gonna be a lot of steaming atheists and secularists right before the first episode could be aired. They’re gonna be sending their little apologists and critics to ‘clear things up’ but hey, don’t we also do that?

Agreed. Good point.

Let’s face facts. When you fictionalize something, it’s not, no never, going to be taken seriously as hard fact. You forget that fiction’s first and foremost goal has always been to entertain people. Teaching truth can only come to close second. You may try to express truth but that isn’t the same as actually trying to put that truth into people’s heads.

I disagree totally. That may be the original purpose of fiction just like the original purpose for communism or democracy were to create a well ordered and progressive society. Anyone can take an idea or concept and attach any label they so choose to it once the material is appropriately packaged. This is why we should go deeper than just dismissing everything because it has not been labelled officially as “anit-christian” or “facts disguised as fiction”.

We know that the nursery rhyme Mary had a little lamb is actually about Jesus and His Blessed Mother but it can be found on the bookshelf under nursrey rhymes instead of religious literature.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I disagree with fighting fire with fire and the whole eye for an eye bit. Our Lord came to fullfill that old law with LOVE not vengeance. An eye for an eye and everyone will go blind. How hypocritical is it to disrespect someone’s faith and the articles thereof in retaliation for them doing you what you deem as wrong?

Hypocritical? And you think putting up rallies and making boycotts is not acting to the same effect? You think, for instance, secular gays don’t do this to us whenever we state our beliefs? Our principles alone can be offensive and disrespectful to these people. Who’s fighting fire with fire now? Honestly, all you’re doing is substituting one type of offense for another.

The only difference is, you don’t need to preach against caricatures. Charges of hypocrisy will fall flat if we now resign ourselves to the cold, hard fact that we need to use the same weapons of war.

You know what’s even better? This isn’t even really a war. Our weapons are just pen, paintbrush, and paper. People don’t even have to believe the jokes we make against our enemies. They can just brush it aside as easily as the Catholics you accuse of do.

No I don’t think that anyone has rights or priviledges to use literature but I do believe that any author or publisher should exercise discretion in what material is put out there as a matter of ethics. And if not then anyone has the right to protest and boycott if they so desire the way gays, muslims, jews and many other interest groups have done over the years in order to deter anyone who may be putting offensive or sacrilegious material out there.

Yes, so. What’s your problem? I exercise my freedom of speech to say something, they exercise their freedom to protest. Do you have a problem with that picture or do you actually rather have such rights solely to our religion?

To think the medieval times were over…

It’s not harmless to those who are not Catholic and those Catholics who do not know their own faith and history. Also I would not call anyone an idiot for believing a convincingly written story anymore than I would call someone an idiot for believing that the Harry Potter series in OK for kids to read and presents no intecement at all for young children to get into occult practices.

A spade is a spade. Fantasy is not reality and you know it deep down. Plenty of psychologists will tell you that it’s pretty much common knowledge to call people who can’t tell what’s real from what’s not as delirious, delusional, and in any case just plain stupid.

I disagree totally. That may be the original purpose of fiction just like the original purpose for communism or democracy were to create a well ordered and progressive society. Anyone can take an idea or concept and attach any label they so choose to it once the material is appropriately packaged. This is why we should go deeper than just dismissing everything because it has not been labelled officially as “anit-christian” or “facts disguised as fiction”.

Yet another who loves false comparison. I got a big book on writing fiction that just blows your ‘argument’ outta the water. Empires, kingdoms, and governments weren’t built on fairy tales and nursery rhymes. The bards of old could only sing of great deeds after they were made. Stop giving fiction credit where it is not due.

We know that the nursery rhyme Mary had a little lamb is actually about Jesus and His Blessed Mother but it can be found on the bookshelf under nursrey rhymes instead of religious literature.

Uhhh… no.

 

[kinja]

Hypocritical? And you think putting up rallies and making boycotts is not acting to the same effect?

No. Protest and mockery (or ridicule or misrepresentation) are two different responses. Don’t get it twisted.

You think, for instance, secular gays don’t do this to us whenever we state our beliefs?

Yes. And it is there right so to do. Nothing wrong with protesting whether I agree with it or not. It’s there right.

Our principles alone can be offensive and disrespectful to these people. Who’s fighting fire with fire now? Honestly, all you’re doing is substituting one type of offense for another.

Let’s not play with words. Stating ones own belief and mocking that of another are as far apart as east and west.

The only difference is, you don’t need to preach against caricatures. Charges of hypocrisy will fall flat if we now resign ourselves to the cold, hard fact that we need to use the same weapons of war.

I think you mean cold hard opinion. There is no fact it that statement. As I said I don’t believe in fighting fire with fire in this context. I don’t subscribe to conditional ethics and moral relativism. I believe in absolute truth becauyse we have an absolute God who is the same today, tomorrow and forever. And if Christ believed otherwise he would not have died on a cross to save us from our sins. He may have been tempting and tricking and lying to us to get us on His side much like Satan does instead. If our enemies are using unethical means in a battle we must defend outselves within the confines of the ethics and morality of God’s laws not man’s.

You know what’s even better? This isn’t even really a war. Our weapons are just pen, paintbrush, and paper. People don’t even have to believe the jokes we make against our enemies. They can just brush it aside as easily as the Catholics you accuse of do.

I personally think that when it comes to religion in particular, mutual respect goes a longer way. When that respect is attacks we oppose and condemn the attack not fuel it and educate where possible in an ethical and lawful manner.

Yes, so. What’s your problem? I exercise my freedom of speech to say something, they exercise their freedom to protest. Do you have a problem with that picture or do you actually rather have such rights solely to our religion?

To think the medieval times were over…

I have no problem with any interest group protesting nor do I think anyone should be jailed and hauled off before a tribunal if they publish any slanderous or errant or offensive material so long as no laws are violated. But likewise it is our obligation not to sit quietly and take it the way many of us are used to doing.

A spade is a spade. Fantasy is not reality and you know it deep down. Plenty of psychologists will tell you that it’s pretty much common knowledge to call people who can’t tell what’s real from what’s not as delirious, delusional, and in any case just plain stupid.

The 12 apostles of Jesus Christ could have been considered stupid when he called them but even the so-called stupid people are a part of Chist’s Mystical Body.

Let me break it down for you in case you didn’t read between the lines that I wrote earlier.
People have the ability to think and process information presented to them. When truth is mixed in with fiction it becomes difficult to determine which is which for the viewer, if he/she is not educated on the material being presented whether it be in a novel or movie.

An example can be Da Vinci Code. Some of the groups, places and events described in the novel are historical and factual but some are not. To someone reading the book who is not Catholic or is a grocery store Catholic (the 25%, some of whom just shows up at mass on a Sunday to clock in their attendance card), how will he/she discern what exactly is true or not without doing the research? And even so when the internet is full of false information and there are people like James Cameron and company who film documentaries which purport to expose the grave of Jesus’ wife and children etc, what will all the “stupid” people think? It creates doubt. Do you know what doubt about accepted Catholic doctrine results in? Automatic excommunication. And Satan loves nothing better than a kingdom divided against itself.

Yet another who loves false comparison. I got a big book on writing fiction that just blows your ‘argument’ outta the water. Empires, kingdoms, and governments weren’t built on fairy tales and nursery rhymes.

No but even these can carry an underlying message. And I would not compare a work like the da Vinci code or Harry Potter to a simple nursery rhyme in it’s net effect except to prove a point that truth can be hidden in any work of fiction.

Alot of people I know who are not stupid people by any means have said to me that they think it is possible that Jesus had a wife. This only occurred to them after seeing Da Vinci code they say. “Why wouldn’t Jesus be married if God approves of marriage?” And “didn’t Jesus really have a close relationship with Mary Magdeline?” They ask rhetorically.

 

[Steadfast_love]

But if HP is only fantasy, then why is our real world Divination involved in it?

Catholic parents can find legitimate problems with HP, but the portrayal of divination as quackery is not one of them.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

No. Protest and mockery (or ridicule or misrepresentation) are two different responses. Don’t get it twisted.

They both have the same role in tactics: Offense.

Let’s not play with words. Stating ones own belief and mocking that of another are as far apart as east and west.

Says you but whatever difference you have in in mind, it is insignificant. If I gave a fan of the French Revolution a copy of a children’s book that told the biography of St. John Vianney or the origin of the Miraculous Medallion, it would be no different if I gave him a completely fictionalized tract depicting the Revolution as a tool of satan. He would be offended, no discrimination between fiction and fact required.

I think you mean cold hard opinion. There is no fact it that statement. As I said I don’t believe in fighting fire with fire in this context. I don’t subscribe to conditional ethics and moral relativism.

You missed the point. Caricatures and the use of literature in propaganda has long been a feature of human civilization. It is a neutral tool. I rehash my example. You think socialists like the portrayal of their comrades in movies like The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima?

I very much doubt it. However, we still promote such movies. We are not shy of attacking other people’s beliefs. A caricature itself is simply a hyperbole of what we find wrong in our enemies.

I personally think that when it comes to religion in particular, mutual respect goes a longer way.

Mutual respect goes both ways. If you don’t like people using art and literature to attack our beliefs, do the same to do them in our defense. That’s how one fights a war using creativity. And if I may add, that same creativity is sorely absent in rallies and boycotts. Furthermore, this is where discrimination between fiction and fact is important. When it is fact, it will only rile up the opposition further because it is a fact, states itself as fact, and cannot make itself other than fact (like our position on same-sex marriage). When it is fiction however, cites itself as fiction, and does not demand the same seriousness, everyone still has a chance to let it go. Dismiss it. You can turn the other cheek. It is not necessarily true so why bother to make a such big deal? Why be offended by lies that even declare themselves lies? You can just go on with your life.

I have no problem with any interest group protesting nor do I think anyone should be jailed and hauled off before a tribunal if they publish any slanderous or errant or offensive material so long as no laws are violated. But likewise it is our obligation not to sit quietly and take it the way many of us are used to doing.

You have a right to protest but I have also a right to not take your protest seriously and even use your reaction as further inspiration for another work. Can’t you see where this is leading? You waste money creating picket signs and buying megaphones to protest something that nobody really takes seriously.

If anything, protest groups only make a work more fictionalized. It only makes it easier for a writer to say, “Hey, it’s fiction. Get over it.”

The 12 apostles of Jesus Christ could have been considered stupid when he called them but even the so-called stupid people are a part of Chist’s Mystical Body.

Doesn’t make them any less stupid.

Let me break it down for you in case you didn’t read between the lines that I wrote earlier.
People have the ability to think and process information presented to them. When truth is mixed in with fiction it becomes difficult to determine which is which for the viewer, if he/she is not educated on the material being presented whether it be in a novel or movie.

That is why education is important.
That’s why SANITY is important.

Your point?

…how will he/she discern what exactly is true or not without doing the research?

Simple, just read the part on the cover that says ‘a novel’.

No but even these can carry an underlying message. And I would not compare a work like the da Vinci code or Harry Potter to a simple nursery rhyme in it’s net effect except to prove a point that truth can be hidden in any work of fiction.

‘Hidden truth’? I suggest you take a class in literary theory and criticism. Usually anybody past the post-structuralism phase will tell you that truth in fiction is something only the reader makes up.

 

[Providence_777]

Don’t you see? The message you seek is already out there. I can’t believe (seriously, I can’t) a cynic like me is saying this but you definitely need to think more positively.

Well that’s good.

But how many are equally as popular as Halo (which is full of anti-religious symbols, by the way)

I always found it odd that you have to team-up with “hieratic aliens” to kill "the prophet of truth" and his “covenant” to prevent “the Ark” from destroying all life using the “Halo” rings.

Honestly, I played the first 3 games and didn’t see anything wrong with it. But I felt that before I continue playing it, I should pay attention to the message of the game. Once I figured what was being said…I freaked But since I can consciously acknowledge this wicked message, my mined refuses it’s influence.

But what about those who don’t see anything wrong, is it so impossible that Satan could be using games like this as tools to feed wrong information and twisted perceptions on a subconscious level?

However “ineffective” you might think this is. Can we really put anything past the Devil?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Well that’s good.

But how many are equally as popular as Halo (which is full of anti-religious symbols, by the way)

I always found it odd that you have to team-up with “hieratic aliens” to kill "the prophet of truth" and his “covenant” to prevent “the Ark” from destroying all life using the “Halo” rings.

I’ve told you before. Just because they use the same words doesn’t mean those words mean the same thing.

 

[Providence_777]

Simple, just read the part on the cover that says ‘a novel’.

On Page 1, under the title “FACT,” the author states: “All descriptions of artwork architecture documents and secret rituals in this novel are accurate.”

And you don’t see how anyone could misunderstand that to be actual FACT

everybody is just stupid…

really?

It’s impossible for the author to be responsible for misleading people?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

On Page 1, under the title “FACT,” the author states: “All descriptions of artwork architecture documents and secret rituals in this novel are accurate.”

And you don’t see how anyone could misunderstand that to be actual FACT

everybody is just stupid…

really?

It’s impossible for the author to be responsible for misleading people?

How many fantasy novels or games have that on their first page? Here’s a counter example my friend from one of my favorite fantasy comics.

“This is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and purely coincidental.”

Honestly, use your common sense. The things that Dan Brown puts in his novels that he claims are fact only really proves one thing: He’s a cheap sell-out who has to rely on the fuel of controversy to make a fast buck.

 

[kinja]

They both have the same role in tactics: Offense.

You are missing the point totally. The role is not the issue it is the means. If the means is not Christ-like we should not use it.

Says you but whatever difference you have in in mind, it is insignificant. If I gave a fan of the French Revolution a copy of a children’s book that told the biography of St. John Vianney or the origin of the Miraculous Medallion, it would be no different if I gave him a completely fictionalized tract depicting the Revolution as a tool of satan. He would be offended, no discrimination between fiction and fact required.

That is not the same. What is your intention in giving this hypothetical fan this publication? What is your intention of mocking or doing a caricature of Mohammed or Buddha? Don’t try to separate the act from the intention. They go hand in hand. That is why manslaughter and cold blooded murder are two different acts which have the same net effect.

You missed the point. Caricatures and the use of literature in propaganda has long been a feature of human civilization. It is a neutral tool. I rehash my example. You think socialists like the portrayal of their comrades in movies like The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima?

Murder and stealing has also long been a feature of human civilization. There is no such thing as a neutral tool.

Mutual respect goes both ways. If you don’t like people using art and literature to attack our beliefs, do the same to do them in our defense.

Sigh. The whole eye for an eye bit all over again. This is not a Christian response so I do not condone it. We need to be about spreading truth not playing tit for tat with our enemies. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

That’s how one fights a war using creativity. And if I may add, that same creativity is sorely absent in rallies and boycotts. Furthermore, this is where discrimination between fiction and fact is important.

There is a thin line between being creative and being deliberately offensive or trivializing a serious issue (eg. gay marriage). This creativity should not distract from the truth but promote it.

When it is fact, it will only rile up the opposition further because it is a fact, states itself as fact, and cannot make itself other than fact (like our position on same-sex marriage). When it is fiction however, cites itself as fiction, and does not demand the same seriousness, everyone still has a chance to let it go. Dismiss it. You can turn the other cheek. It is not necessarily true so why bother to make a such big deal? Why be offended by lies that even declare themselves lies? You can just go on with your life.

The difference is that a blatant lie can be easily dismissed as such after investigation. However half truths in the form of insidiously written material like da Vinci code can engage the mind of many people using subtle literal devices and good storytelling so that the line between both truth and lie is blurred.

Can’t you see where this is leading? You waste money creating picket signs and buying megaphones to protest something that nobody really takes seriously.

The Jews are taken seriously. So are the Muslims and they get their “enemies” to retract and apologise very quickly for the slightest things they deem as offensive. One of the reasons that no one takes these things seriously is because we Christians don’t take them seriously enough.

If anything, protest groups only make a work more fictionalized. It only makes it easier for a writer to say, “Hey, it’s fiction. Get over it.”

So I guess the complaints by a whole lot of african americans about offensive and “strong likeness” of the fictional character jar jar binks of Star Wars episode 1 to old African American stereotypes in the film industry was a waste of time on their part? Even though Lucas had to make an official statement about this and subsequently he gave Jar Jar less of a promounced African persona and weaker character portrayal in the subsequent film? I see alot gains for interest groups from protest action so I disagree with you again on that.
Ghandi, Martine Luther King Jr., and Mandela are all prominent examples of the positive fruit born through protest action.

Doesn’t make them any less stupid.

God came for the stupid, friend. Even the ones who don’t know they are “stupid” too.

That is why education is important.
That’s why SANITY is important.

Your point?

It doesn’t make people insane to not know certain things. It may say something about the person with that delusion however.

Simple, just read the part on the cover that says ‘a novel’.

A novel is based on fiction with some degree of truth is it not? The question is which is truth and which is not. Bayonetta is the same thing. Some of it is based on reality and some “fiction”.

‘Hidden truth’? I suggest you take a class in literary theory and criticism. Usually anybody past the post-structuralism phase will tell you that truth in fiction is something only the reader makes up.

I disagree. I would not say that the truth in the many parables that our Lord Jesus told the multitudes was actually made up by those who heard it and by every one of us who hears or has read it since.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You are missing the point totally. The role is not the issue it is the means. If the means is not Christ-like we should not use it.

Again, calling for rallies is no different a mean than using the same rights to creativity to express one’s belief.

That is not the same. What is your intention in giving this hypothetical fan this publication? What is your intention of mocking or doing a caricature of Mohammed or Buddha? Don’t try to separate the act from the intention. They go hand in hand. That is why manslaughter and cold blooded murder are two different acts which have the same net effect.

LOL! Intention? The intention is the same. Honestly, first you compare apples to oranges and now you’re trying to treat green apples and red apples as if they’re a different species.

Murder and stealing has also long been a feature of human civilization. There is no such thing as a neutral tool.

Wow, you really just love false comparisons don’t you? I suppose knives are evil too.

Sigh. The whole eye for an eye bit all over again. This is not a Christian response so I do not condone it. We need to be about spreading truth not playing tit for tat with our enemies. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

How is a back-n-forth between two smart artists making fun of each other’s beliefs different from a back-n-forth between protesters? It’s not. The only difference are the tools. Yours is wasting money buying picket signs and circulating propaganda. Ours is simply expression and gets us money and recognition on the side.

There is a thin line between being creative and being deliberately offensive or trivializing a serious issue (eg. gay marriage). This creativity should not distract from the truth but promote it.

If you want to promote truth in the manner that you imply, go be a teacher of the hard stuff like math, science, or theology. You don’t walk the path of an artist. The thing about art you keep ignoring is that it’s never meant to be taken as seriously as fact. The worlds of music, painting, and literature are worlds mostly filled with pure opinion. Whatever ‘truth’ you derive from such works is a truth you concocted yourself.

The difference is that a blatant lie can be easily dismissed as such after investigation. However half truths in the form of insidiously written material like da Vinci code can engage the mind of many people using subtle literal devices and good storytelling so that the line between both truth and lie is blurred.

Half-truths? The fact that you believe the Da Vinci code has ‘half-truths’ when it should be no truth prompts me to wonder if you’re the real doubter here.

Again, you need only read the word ‘novel’ on the cover and you should know that diving into a book is diving into an entirely different world.

The Jews are taken seriously. So are the Muslims and they get their “enemies” to retract and apologise very quickly for the slightest things they deem as offensive. One of the reasons that no one takes these things seriously is because we Christians don’t take them seriously enough.

You know what atheists say about such people? Religious oppressors of free speech. You say you have nothing against that right but you are citing the very people who wish to take that right away and make it exclusive to their own religion.

Again, to think the medieval times where over…

So I guess the complaints by a whole lot of african americans about offensive and “strong likeness” of the fictional character jar jar binks of Star Wars episode 1 to old African American stereotypes in the film industry was a waste of time on their part? Even though Lucas had to make an official statement about this and subsequently he gave Jar Jar less of a promounced African persona and weaker character portrayal in the subsequent film?

LOL! Whut? I’m no Star Wars fan but I hear Jar Jar Binks is either a love-him-or-hate-him type of character. As such, his popularity isn’t really stellar so that could be just one of the many reasons why he wasn’t on much on the second film.

The next thing you’re gonna tell me is that the reason why the Ewoks were in the last was George Lucas was afraid of offending animal rights nuts like PETA too soon.

God came for the stupid, friend. Even the ones who don’t know they are “stupid” too.

I repeat: Doesn’t make them any less stupid.

It doesn’t make people insane to not know certain things. It may say something about the person with that delusion however.

You are confusing ‘knowing’ with ‘believing’. Knowing implies that what you know is fact. Therefore, if you ‘know’ a lie as if it were fact, you are actually believing it and have fallen into the same delusion. Thus, you have every right to be called crazy.

Bayonetta is the same thing. Some of it is based on reality and some “fiction”.

What ‘reality’? That gun kata is somehow possible? That your hair can shapeshift?
Please, spare me. Fictionalizing is like an infection to fact. Once you start, it becomes hard to keep the facts from being fictionalized themselves.

I disagree. I would not say that the truth in the many parables that our Lord Jesus told the multitudes was actually made up by those who heard it and by every one of us who hears or has read it since.

You miss the point. I’m saying that when you read fiction, the truth you glean from that is of your own construct. You can’t compare it to parables since Jesus Himself always explains the meaning right after, therefore He leaves no room to be reinterpreted.

 

[Providence_777]

Honestly, use your common sense. The things that Dan Brown puts in his novels that he claims are fact only really proves one thing: He’s a cheap sell-out who has to rely on the fuel of controversy to make a fast buck.

That is it, I will bear you insults no longer.

Use your common sense, you have been deceived by Satan in this matter, and because of his masterful brainwashing your too confused to realize who the enemy is.

We have been nothing but polite in a failing attempt to get you to see reason.
And in return you disrespect us, insult our intelligence, questioning our sanity, and we have done nothing of the sort.

I have been very apologetic about our misunderstandings, yet you fail to show such a curtsey for your wrathful and demeaning approach towards this discussion.

Your spiritual sight in this matter is so clouded by your desires that you’ll walk off a cliff and never know your falling.

I’ve been down this road before. Don’t let Darkness cloud your sight anymore, pray that God will show you the truth, and when he does (how ever he does) listen to him. Your spirit will know the answer.

Don’t continue on a road that has “cation” and “danger” signs everywhere, at least brake, and look at a map.

I’m done, I’ve said all I can say.

If you wish to risk your spiritual walk for some mild entertainment, you can do so (God gave you that right). But please, refrain from confusing others about this topic, let them discover what the truth is on their own aided by God.

 

[antunesaa]

On Page 1, under the title “FACT,” the author states: “All descriptions of artwork architecture documents and secret rituals in this novel are accurate.”

And you don’t see how anyone could misunderstand that to be actual FACT

everybody is just stupid…

really?

It’s impossible for the author to be responsible for misleading people?

A friend of mine (who is a lapsed Catholic turned anti-clerical atheist) once showed me that line as he was reading the Da Vinci Code. I said: “so what? If you want to be more specific go on.” He was unsure about what was supposed to be new to me, so he just kept silent. Later on, as soon as I was sure that he had realized that the book (and Dan Brown’s whole work) was just airport literature (the Opus Dei “monk” comes to mind), I came back to the topic. “So, if you really want to be serious about refuting Catholicism, you have to turn to authors other than Dan Brown. He’s just a smart writer who knows what commuting housewives and mystics from the suburbs like to read.” Now he’s into Richard Dawkins; I guess at some point he’ll realize these people are bigots worse than the worst evangelical preacher they libel against, and eventually revert to the Faith or perhaps read some serious atheist philosophers. I pray a lot for him and his family.

My point here is that in the end the Da Vinci code effect was 0. People smart enough to read it are also smart enough not to take it seriously. The atheists and agnostics reinforce their initial prejudices; the believers just move on to a Chrichton novel or something.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

That is it, I will bear you insults no longer.

LOL! I call a spade a spade. I can’t believe you’re actually defending Dan Brown. You don’t like how I summed it up, take it up with the critics. Just googling “Dan Brown sucks” is enough to get you a few naysayers to the Da Vinci Code movement. What I said up there is short and polite compared to what I’ve read.

Your spiritual sight in this matter is so clouded by your desires that you’ll walk off a cliff and never know your falling.

Says a guy who hangs around people who can’t tell fact from fiction.

I’ve been down this road before. Don’t let Darkness cloud your sight anymore, pray that God will show you the truth, and when he does (how ever he does) listen to him. Your spirit will know the answer.

Didn’t I tell you to knock it off the with the spiritual blindness act? It’s just another version of the True Scotsman fallacy with a dash of emotional appeal. Come back with something substantial.

If you wish to risk your spiritual walk for some mild entertainment, you can do so (God gave you that right). But please, refrain from confusing others about this topic, let them discover what the truth is on their own aided by God.

Stop deluding yourself. You can’t even quote your sources with a sound mind. I’ve already proven way, way back that the only people confusing folks here are ones like you.

 

[kinja]

That is it, I will bear you insults no longer.

Use your common sense, you have been deceived by Satan in this matter, and because of his masterful brainwashing your too confused to realize who the enemy is.

We have been nothing but polite in a failing attempt to get you to see reason.
And in return you disrespect us, insult our intelligence, questioning our sanity, and we have done nothing of the sort.

I have been very apologetic about our misunderstandings, yet you fail to show such a curtsey for your wrathful and demeaning approach towards this discussion.

Your spiritual sight in this matter is so clouded by your desires that you’ll walk off a cliff and never know your falling.

I’ve been down this road before. Don’t let Darkness cloud your sight anymore, pray that God will show you the truth, and when he does (how ever he does) listen to him. Your spirit will know the answer.

Don’t continue on a road that has “cation” and “danger” signs everywhere, at least brake, and look at a map.

I’m done, I’ve said all I can say.

If you wish to risk your spiritual walk for some mild entertainment, you can do so (God gave you that right). But please, refrain from confusing others about this topic, let them discover what the truth is on their own aided by God.

Providence don’t let his remarks get to you. Some people are comic book lovers and their writings may seem like they come out of one. Which proves my point that for some of us the lines between reality and fiction are blurred and we resort to comic book insults to try to win an arguement. Interestingly however, I find that the nickname some people use for themselves on this forum is vividly telling.

 

[kinja]

“So, if you really want to be serious about refuting Catholicism, you have to turn to authors other than Dan Brown. He’s just a smart writer who knows what commuting housewives and mystics from the suburbs like to read.”

I think it goes deeper than just being a smart writer antu. I would not consider people who can read Da Vinci Code to be necessarily smart. Slont of people can read and understand really well but they would not feel it necessary to research the information presented and even if they do there is so much gnosticism out there now that the path to the truth can be obscured. The writings about Jesus in that book are anti-Christ hands down. They speak flasehood whether it is disguised as a work of fiction or not. And I believe Dan Browne is more than a smart writer. I believe that that work was inspired by darkness. As a Christian there are only two sides and if something is not truth it is a lie (a half truth is also a lie) and who is the father of lies?

My point here is that in the end the Da Vinci code effect was 0. People smart enough to read it are also smart enough not to take it seriously. The atheists and agnostics reinforce their initial prejudices; the believers just move on to a Chrichton novel or something.

Says who? The movie would have been able to reach even illiterate people and those to whom the literary work would make no sense in it’s written form. Even believers have had their faith shaken and tested by this work and some who have been looking to Catholicism for answers have also fallen prey to the lies about Christ and his wife. Do you not think that the more impressionable people who saw this film may see the clergy as a bunch of hypocrites? THis is what has been happening in my experience. If Jesus had a wife (possibly) then why aren’t priest getting married? This is only one of the many lies that that book has resurrected from the anals of gnosticism. In an age of gnosticism (celebrities airing their gnostic belief that we are all gods) the Dan Browne novel made movie is yet another stubling block for many in my opinion.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Some people are comic book lovers and their writings may seem like they come out of one. Which proves my point that for some of us the lines between reality and fiction are blurred and we resort to comic book insults to try to win an arguement. Interestingly however, I find that the nickname some people use for themselves on this forum is vividly telling.

Finally, something intelligent from you. You described yourself really well.

 

[Providence_777]

LOL! I call a spade a spade. I can’t believe you’re actually defending Dan Brown. You don’t like how I summed it up, take it up with the critics. Just googling “Dan Brown sucks” is enough to get you a few naysayers to the Da Vinci Code movement. What I said up there is short and polite compared to what I’ve read.

How are you confusing this? I am not defending Dan Brown. I’m saying that many people were fooled by his fiction (because they didn’t know it was fiction) it was dressed up to look like facts.

Did you forget that there was this ‘big’ controversy over his blasphemous work? If it was so obviously fiction, then did so many people dispute over it?

Says a guy who hangs around people who can’t tell fact from fiction.

Are you judging me by the people that were in my life regardless of my choice?

You can’t choose your relatives, nor can you choose your classmates, nor can you choose your teachers (at least in a public school anyway)

I don’t “hang out” with atheists, and witches. We were just had to be in the same rooms together if we wanted to graduate (they weren’t happy with me either, then again witches don’t get along to well with Christians typically)

Didn’t I tell you to knock it off the with the spiritual blindness act? It’s just another version of the True Scotsman fallacy with a dash of emotional appeal. Come back with something substantial.

It’s not an act, I really believe that your confused and need spiritual guidance from a qualified Pastor, even though you think your 100% right, checking in with God won’t hurt unless your afraid of what he might say.

Stop deluding yourself. You can’t even quote your sources with a sound mind. I’ve already proven way, way back that the only people confusing folks here are ones like you.

Dude, seriously… why do you feel the need to be so rude? Your outbursts is one of the things that concerns me. The way you have been addressing us here, it’s not very becoming of child of light. And shows evidence of deeper issue.

And I quoted my sources just fine. I just didn’t check 1 homepage, and now the soundness of my mind is in question.

Put down your guns, their is no need to be so offensive.