How is Bayonetta Satanic?

[Lost_Wanderer]

The Originator knows this wicked plot about the fallen trying to end the tournaments, and prevent use of artifacts.

—So what does the Originator do, to combat the fallen?
—What does he want from his people?

Mind if I critique a bit? I would prefer that you consider the tournaments themselves as not really of the religious nature. They’re merely neutral sports. If we’re going to have these Artifacts serve some higher cause, I’d rather people use them to be just what they transform into: Heroes. On the other hand, if we’re going to have Satan (yes, I know this rebel is in reference to Satan’s own rebellion) protest against ‘my’ creation, I would rather he make the typical shounen tactic of having them used for evil. (That doesn’t mean the tournaments themselves are bad though.)

Okay, setting that aside onto your questions. Obviously, I think I just answered the first one. Evil demons want you to use the Artifacts for well… evil so to combat that, we obviously need to spread a message that they oughta be used for good (or at least, not evil). Christianity would of course be one major religion in support of the proper use of Artifacts.

 

[Providence_777]

Mind if I critique a bit? I would prefer that you consider the tournaments themselves as not really of the religious nature. They’re merely neutral sports. If we’re going to have these Artifacts serve some higher cause, I’d rather people use them to be just what they transform into: Heroes.

I think I just answered the first one. Evil demons want you to use the Artifacts for well… evil so to combat that, we obviously need to spread a message that they oughta be used for good (or at least, not evil). Christianity would of course be one major religion in support of the proper use of Artifacts.

Your critique has revised the story. I love it.

Ok, your people have spread the message about the wonders of Artifacts, teaching people how they can transform themselves, and they are curb-stomping the fallen’s plans in the process.

The Fallen: *“No one wants to use the artifacts for evil, I just tolled this one guy if he turn himself invisible, he could sneak into a woman room. And he said that the artifacts are to precious to be used like that, especially to do sin”! “Everyone knows that doing such things are forbidden! How can we convince them to use these artifacts more sinfully” *

They try numerous strategies, one of which almost worked but failed because it was too obvious. It was an attempt at directly telling them there was a more interesting way to use the artifacts. But most of the humans knew right away it was deception and turn it away.

Now another plan (one of millions of schemes)
The Fallen: “We need to ease them into the idea of misusing the artifacts, it may take centuries, but it’s our only shot at convincing them to do this sin.”
We can use their own media to do it!!!

So they do everything from: afflicting a few teachers, a few world leaders, and a lot of trend setters become afflicted with these poisonous ideas about the artifacts.

Now a few subliminal messages in ads, books, broadcasting, and movies.

The only problem, is it is till too obvious to many followers of the Originator. And they get busted every time.

The Fallen: “We need to aim at a more impressionable generation, people that are still quite maluable”.
“But sir, we can’t just going telling them to do evil. We must conceal it somehow”!

*We must invade imagination, we need to entertain the what if and teach the humans through theoretical.
Give them a imaginative place where misuse of artifacts can be good.

This inception can’t be obvious, let’s hide it in just a few movies, and books. And no matter what, don’t let it parallel too closely to reality, it must be fictionalized so no one will see the threat, nevertheless still using the term artifact

But what would be misuse of artifacts in reality, would merely be acts of good our fiction. This way, no one can compare it to the real world because of the differences.*

This was not the main plot of the Fallen, but it was definitely good one.

—How will this secret plot be exposed?
—How will the Originator handle this?

sorry that took so long

 

[Providence_777]

I mentioned that they have billions of plots, you named one of their most dangerous ones. "I didn’t include it in the post, but that is indeed one of the tricks they use.

Thank you for contributing. You have helped me flesh out more of their deceptions.

 

[Providence_777]

You are right, that it could be completely possible. Despite my opinion on this matter, I’m sure that Jesus would simply want us to use caution before delving into something like that.

(especially since they call the in-game enemies angels, using the same classes we use. Even though they are clearly not the ones from our world, why did they name the enemies angels in the first place)?

 

[Providence_777]

Yeah totally, that is also one of the plots.

you see, they would inhabit people, and start something like the Salem witch trails. Possessing people to encourage them to give false accusations.

After people are seen to be innocent for so long, the deception will be complete. Because then, not only have people been desensitized to occult themes by that time, but now no one will believe any accusations. Even when the devil himself walks right by. Because no one would feel the need to use caution anymore.

 

[Providence_777]

Like in Final Fantasy games.

I do know that in this game they are not impersonators, but I am not sure if the god in this game is suppose to be the equivalent of our God or not.

 

[Providence_777]

I was only talking about the story that we were working on with LW.

not events that actually transpired.

I was only telling you how they intend to use that deception in this story.

 

[kinja]

Seriously How is Bayonetta Satanic ? it’s not even angels that you kill it’s like Greek mythology not even related to christianity Do you think it’s Satanic
? i don’t

There are satanic and other occult elements depicted in Bayonetta. The protagonist also is a physically sensual entity who traditionally has been described as possessing demonic powers. Based on these facts and the level of violence in the video game some adults may deem it offensive. It is purely up to discerning adults whether they want to play, or watch this video game being played even, or not. Adults should discern individually, based on their own perceptions of the games content, if it is healthy for their spiritual walk.

 

[kinja]

Both are bad in my opinion. It isn’t a question of the lesser of two evils since there is a third choice: “Just don’t participate in it”.

Being able to discern the beauty and truth in every aspect of life is great but we should be able to distinguish a lie as well from the truth and not get into the habit of moral relativism.

I think our society has been bombarded by occult themes and symbols used in that context for so long, and with increasing intensity, that we have become desensitized to most of it. That I see as the main threat to our spiritual safety as the Body of Christ. It can’t be that the glorification of one sin over the other is better.

I don’t think that the occult sigils and themes in these games or other media themselves may necessarily present any spiritual danger to the viewer directly, but indirectly they may have the same effect as the overuse of suggestive and overt gay themes and excessive display of violence which has become a large part of western entertainment and culture.

Clothes, music, cartoons, movies and tv shows are all moving more and more in that direction. I’m not saying that we must live in a bubble. But turning a blind eye to the obvious use of the same recurrent themes in the context in which they are being used is just as bad if not worse I think.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

This inception can’t be obvious, let’s hide it in just a few movies, and books. And no matter what, don’t let it parallel too closely to reality, it must be fictionalized so no one will see the threat, nevertheless still using the term artifact

But what would be misuse of artifacts in reality, would merely be acts of good our fiction. This way, no one can compare it to the real world because of the differences.

This was not the main plot of the Fallen, but it was definitely good one.

—How will this secret plot be exposed?
—How will the Originator handle this?

Simple, I wouldn’t do much since such a plot will easily fall flat on itself. When you make a fictionalized and glorified version of something that is bad, that fictionalized version will become an entirely new meaning by itself independent of whatever ‘real-life’ counterpart it had.

Take for instance if there was a book glorifying Artifacts used for gangsterism, the only way it can appear good to the population is that the gangs are up against a corrupt government system. The fact that they’re trying to fictionalize it and draw away parallels from reality is a already a set-up for self-destruction.

 

[Providence_777]

Simple, I wouldn’t do much since such a plot will easily fall flat on itself. When you make a fictionalized and glorified version of something that is bad, that fictionalized version will become an entirely new meaning by itself independent of whatever ‘real-life’ counterpart it had.

Take for instance if there was a book glorifying Artifacts used for gangsterism, the only way it can appear good to the population is that the gangs are up against a corrupt government system. The fact that they’re trying to fictionalize it and draw away parallels from reality is a already a set-up for self-destruction.

Thank you for indulging me, this was all I was trying to get to. An understanding of what we both mean.

There was a lot of confusion along the way. But I now see exactly how you understand the situation. And hopefully you see how I see the situation.

I’m not anti-fantasy, or lack an understanding of reality. I just believed that a certain few fantasies had more than met the eye. (given what I have told you about one of my cousin, you can see why I treat these things with such caution)

I recognize that you don’t think occult is ok, you are just certain that HP and other fantasies in question are exactly what they appear to be. (I disagree, but it doesn’t matter because I’m sure neither of us could change each others mind)

Thank you for your remarkable amount of patients with me. And I’m sorry for my scatter-shot post before checking links. I have brought great shame by not checking the sources (all I had to do was just check the homepage, sorry I didn’t do that. And I hope you all will forgive my oversights. I already prayed, asking God to forgive me.)

I’m also sorry for my inability to articulate what I mean (I have had to post several responses to clarify what previous posts was suppose to mean)

Views aside, I had fun creating a story with you LW. Thank you again for humoring me:thumbsup:

 

[Providence_777]

Both are bad in my opinion. It isn’t a question of the lesser of two evils since there is a third choice: “Just don’t participate in it”.

Being able to discern the beauty and truth in every aspect of life is great but we should be able to distinguish a lie as well from the truth and not get into the habit of moral relativism.

I think our society has been bombarded by occult themes and symbols used in that context for so long, and with increasing intensity, that we have become desensitized to most of it. That I see as the main threat to our spiritual safety as the Body of Christ. It can’t be that the glorification of one sin over the other is better.

I don’t think that the occult sigils and themes in these games or other media themselves may necessarily present any spiritual danger to the viewer directly, but indirectly they may have the same effect as the overuse of suggestive and overt gay themes and excessive display of violence which has become a large part of western entertainment and culture.

Clothes, music, cartoons, movies and tv shows are all moving more and more in that direction. I’m not saying that we must live in a bubble. But turning a blind eye to the obvious use of the same recurrent themes in the context in which they are being used is just as bad if not worse I think.

Thank you God in heaven!!!

That is what I mean to say!!!

Thank you for your insight Kinja

(I thanked God, because I was praying that he would show me somebody else, that thought the saturation of occult themes in media was a little suspect)

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think our society has been bombarded by occult themes and symbols used in that context for so long, and with increasing intensity, that we have become desensitized to most of it. That I see as the main threat to our spiritual safety as the Body of Christ. It can’t be that the glorification of one sin over the other is better.

The thing about art that you need to realize is that you don’t necessarily have to adhere to how mainstream media, the critics, or even the fanbase interpret something. My sister used to watch plenty of Bayonetta clips on YouTube because she wants me to get the game once I get my hands on a desirable PS3 (I’m looking for one with PS2 backwards compatibility, in case anybody’s wondering). Honestly, you may think it’s occult or desensitizing one to the occult but all I saw was a crazy noir world typical of a lot of fantasy-horror shooters. You’d have to be pretty shallow and stupid to think that’s what the real occult in the real world is all about.

 

[Providence_777]

You’d have to be pretty shallow and stupid to think that’s what the real occult in the real world is all about.

Let’s all agree that we disagree, neither side of the argument is stupid or shallow.

Lost Wanderer, I know that it’s very frustrating that a couple of us disagree with your side. I’m sure to you, the answer appears obvious. So I can see why our argument would look stupid to you.

But insults aren’t necessary, and they don’t help either side.

This is why we pray for answers and revelation, because if God wants to show us something, he’ll do it. We just have to be open minded as to how he intends to tell us.

Oh…and here you go Lost Wanderer.
psxextreme.com/feature/127.html
hardcoreware.net/playstation-3-80gbs-ps2-backwards-compatibility-sucks/

Since your looking into PS3 with backward compatibility, I thought it would be good for you to see these links about features and which one might be better.

I hope it helps your search.

 

[antunesaa]

(I’m looking for one with PS2 backwards compatibility, in case anybody’s wondering).

I have one! Unfortunately, I’m not selling it

 

[antunesaa]

There are satanic and other occult elements depicted in Bayonetta. The protagonist also is a physically sensual entity who traditionally has been described as possessing demonic powers. Based on these facts and the level of violence in the video game some adults may deem it offensive. It is purely up to discerning adults whether they want to play, or watch this video game being played even, or not. Adults should discern individually, based on their own perceptions of the games content, if it is healthy for their spiritual walk.

I’m not familiar with bayonetta. But if what you say is accurate, I wouldn’t let my children play it. They don’t like the stuff anyway; they prefer singstar and buzz (girls) and first person shooters and soccer games (boys).

 

[kinja]

The thing about art that you need to realize is that you don’t necessarily have to adhere to how mainstream media, the critics, or even the fanbase interpret something.

This is true. Unfortunately this same line of logic can be applied to any form of scriledge that the “artist” deems to be “art”. The sacreligious protrayals of God the Father and Son in TV shows like Family Guy, as well as the more obvious"art" of the likes of Lady Gaga which offends has been offensive to many Catholics in recent times.

Honestly, you may think it’s occult or desensitizing one to the occult but all I saw was a crazy noir world typical of a lot of fantasy-horror shooters. You’d have to be pretty shallow and stupid to think that’s what the real occult in the real world is all about.

And this is what I mean by desensitizing us to things that our church has condemned for thousands of years. Regarding your last sentence I think the converse is true. The very word occult means hidden knowledge and most of it is hiding in plain sight not just in secret covens and practiced by hooded wizards in cemeteries. There is no need to hide when occult practitioners can get people to say things like “it’s just art” to the appearences it in mainstream media.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

This is true. Unfortunately this same line of logic can be applied to any form of scriledge that the “artist” deems to be “art”. The sacreligious protrayals of God the Father and Son in TV shows like Family Guy, as well as the more obvious"art" of the likes of Lady Gaga which offends has been offensive to many Catholics in recent times.

Which is why you don’t take such sacrilege seriously.

And this is what I mean by desensitizing us to things that our church has condemned for thousands of years. Regarding your last sentence I think the converse is true. The very word occult means hidden knowledge and most of it is hiding in plain sight not just in secret covens and practiced by hooded wizards in cemeteries. There is no need to hide when occult practitioners can get people to say things like “it’s just art” to the appearences it in mainstream media.

There is still a fine line between what you consider as ‘occult’ imagery used freely and wantonly regardless of religious affiliation and the actual religions of the occult. You like to use inverses well here’s another one: the usage of ‘Christian’ imagery in fiction where the religion itself doesn’t exist. Using your logic, we have nothing to worry about because we get our fair share in fantasy as the inspirations for knights, paladins, priests, and vampire slayers. Heck, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but there’s been an increasing popularity in using the female knight archetype. Do you want to know who could have started that trend? Look no further than St. Joan of Arc. I mean I don’t know how many times she’s been perceived that way in her popular portrayals.

Now some people might argue “Well, that’s not really Christianity!” Guess what? The same could be said of ‘occult’ imagery. Don’t you see? Fictionalizing something does not desensitize people. It creates an entirely different concept altogether and anyone with a sound mind wouldn’t confuse what’s real with what’s not.

 

[kinja]

Which is why you don’t take such sacrilege seriously.

This is why society and the mass media have no problem disrespecting Jesus and His church. Do you think that Mohammed (who a prophet, not a god to our Islamic bretheren) could be disrespected like this without the muslim community responding in outrage and dismay in a militant fashion? Many of us Catholics take one extreme or the other. A minority may go crazy and kill abortionists claiming to save lives of the innocent in doing so. Others just brush off insults and mockery of our Lord Jesus by the mass media as just art or not to be taken seriously. There is no protest, no campaign for a public apology from the offenders.

We Catholics stay quiet when we should stand up. We become indifferent and dare I say cowardly. Where is the church militant in this day and age? Is it only Fr. Pavone, Fr. Corapi, Fr. Barron and a few other lay people who come out in the public eye using the media and call a spade a spade?

Our Lord says and it is written about the lukewarm “He will spit you out of His mouth”. We should take heed of these words I think. We need to be discerning, wise and rational but yet on fire for Christ Jesus yes?

Fictionalizing something does not desensitize people. It creates an entirely different concept altogether and anyone with a sound mind wouldn’t confuse what’s real with what’s not.

No. I do not agree. That would be to say that Da Vinci code is harmless to those who do not know or understand catholicism and Opus Dei among other things. That would be to say that I could make a cartoon about someone called Benedict Pope who is the leader of a religious movement bent on spreading lies about a mythical god which is really a lie to cover up the fact that he and his priests eat children and drink their blood in a mystical city called the vatican. Then publishing it for kids and labelling it fiction.

Where do we draw the line exactly and if someone crosses it what do we do about it besides come on CAF and vent our disdain? I am by no means advocating violence but there are effective ways of peaceful protest employed by many minorities present and past which have resulted in change in favour of the affected parties. What are we afraid of? We are the largest religious group in the world and we are always afraid to speak out.

 

[Providence_777]

We Catholics stay quiet when we should stand up. We become indifferent and dare I say cowardly. Where is the church militant in this day and age?

We are the largest religious group in the world and we are always afraid to speak out.

This ^^^

Not only Catholics, but the brothers of Catholics who are part of the Protestant faiths.

Lost Wanderer, you have the gift of story telling, and it’s a blessing that can be use as a tool of God.

This can be used to teach people the truth about God, or perhaps to expose the occult for how evil it truly is.

My cousin is not the only victim, many people have shown great interest in arcane arts. They see nothing wrong with it because all these sources teach them “it’s cool” or “white witches are the same as Christians”.

There is no opposing force to teach them what’s true.

Lost Wanderer, you can be the force. Help God in showing the wickedness that sorcery truly is.

We all have our talents for a reason, and I believe it’s to glorify God, and battle against Satan.