How is denying you spouce sex on a regular basis a confessable sin?

[glendab]

P.S. I’m still a little upset at the poster who called me a Feminist and a Satanist. That was a little too much.

I’ll pray for them.

Glenda

 

[severus68]

P.S. I’m still a little upset at the poster who called me a Feminist and a Satanist. That was a little too much.

I’ll pray for them.

Glenda

 

[Roger1]

P.S. I’m still a little upset at the poster who called me a Feminist and a Satanist. That was a little too much.

I’ll pray for them.

Glenda

Glenda,

This what you wrote “Sex isn’t owed to a spouse at all.”

This is what I wrote “What you have written is a Feminist/Satanic view point.”

I apologize that my words came across as hurtful. But the statement “Sex isn’t owed to a spouse at all.” is a very tired and typical saying from secular feminist. It is divisive and contrary to the way God has ordained the sacrament of Holy Matrimony. I started the post to better understand the frivolous denial of the marital embrace, did not mean to come across as harsh.

Also want to thank you for taking the time to type all the info from Prummer’s.:thankyou: that was a lot of work and I know it will be helpful to everyone as another rich Catholic resource.

Have been meaning to post some of the details that 1ke referenced but have not had the time just yet.

Appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut and hope you have a Blessed day.

 

[pensmama87]

I wonder about this question as well. My husband has been refusing sex for six months now. He’s no longer in love with me. No big deal breakers here like abuse, addiction, or adultery. He just doesn’t feel love anymore as he’s held in a lot of resentment for past hurts. Yes, we’ve done professional counseling and plan to do Retrouvaille in the spring/summer. I’ve worked on myself. He does not believe love is a choice and if he does not feel like it then he believes that there is nothing wrong with refusing. I understand that he does not want to and don’t want to pressure him. At the same time, I feel as if lack if intimacy only makes the distance greater. Would you consider it a sin in this case? Is it ok to refuse if you feel no attraction or love for your spouse? I’m not quite sure what the answer is. He feels it would be lie to be intimate with me if he’s not truly feeling the love.

This must be so hard for you.

I was thinking over your post and I kept coming back to the idea that sometimes, I do not feel like cooking. It’s one thing if it’s just me, but I have young children. By the nature of my relationship to my children, it is my responsibility to love them and provide for them. So I have to give them food, even when I don’t feel like it (and I will admit there are times I don’t want to - not because I want them to starve or suffer, but because for whatever reason it’s an inconvenience to me.)

The nature of the marital relationship is sexual. I don’t always feel like being loving to my spouse. Sometimes he annoys me a lot (and I bet I annoy him too - in fact, I know I do but he usually knows not to say so. ) But it’s still my job to love him because I promised to. Sure, that doesn’t sound romantic and spontaneous, but I can start working on loving him more in very small ways, and what do you know, the feelings come then, too.

I’m also thinking about the great writers and artists - how little would they have accomplished if they only worked on their craft when they “felt like it.” They had to do a lot of practice, much of it boring, repetitive, without tons of praise and encouragement, to get to the point where they could do the work that we remember them for.

This is all kind of muddled, and I don’t mean to necessarily provide a compelling case for why your husband is wrong, but I do wonder if he has considered applying his line of thinking to anything else in his life besides his marriage. I think it falls apart pretty quickly - which identifies it as an excuse. But it is an excuse that is very prevalent in our culture, unfortunately.

I’m praying for you. :hug1:

 

[bernadettefaith]

This must be so hard for you.

I was thinking over your post and I kept coming back to the idea that sometimes, I do not feel like cooking. It’s one thing if it’s just me, but I have young children. By the nature of my relationship to my children, it is my responsibility to love them and provide for them. So I have to give them food, even when I don’t feel like it (and I will admit there are times I don’t want to - not because I want them to starve or suffer, but because for whatever reason it’s an inconvenience to me.)

The nature of the marital relationship is sexual. I don’t always feel like being loving to my spouse. Sometimes he annoys me a lot (and I bet I annoy him too - in fact, I know I do but he usually knows not to say so. ) But it’s still my job to love him because I promised to. Sure, that doesn’t sound romantic and spontaneous, but I can start working on loving him more in very small ways, and what do you know, the feelings come then, too.

I’m also thinking about the great writers and artists - how little would they have accomplished if they only worked on their craft when they “felt like it.” They had to do a lot of practice, much of it boring, repetitive, without tons of praise and encouragement, to get to the point where they could do the work that we remember them for.

This is all kind of muddled, and I don’t mean to necessarily provide a compelling case for why your husband is wrong, but I do wonder if he has considered applying his line of thinking to anything else in his life besides his marriage. I think it falls apart pretty quickly - which identifies it as an excuse. But it is an excuse that is very prevalent in our culture, unfortunately.

I’m praying for you. :hug1:

Thank you for the prayers. I’ve brought up before how we care for our children even if we don’t feel like it. He counters that with “I love my children so I feel like doing those things.”

It doesn’t help that he no longer wishes to follow his faith. He feels that he would be an unpaid whore if he had sex with me because he does not love me. He doesn’t want any scripture quoted to him because he no longer believes it.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Who would want to have sex with someone who has no desire to have sex with them?

I can understand that some people have needs and there is always the desire for children. But lack of desire in your partner must be a major turn off to the point where you just stop trying. It isn’t as if you have to come right out and say no to deny your spouse. Usually lack of enthusiasm would be more than enough to do the trick.

No idea, but many women fake orgasm rather often, of course this doesn’t mean they don’t love the guy, just not necessarily in the mood.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

No idea, but many women fake orgasm rather often, of course this doesn’t mean they don’t love the guy, just not necessarily in the mood.

In terms of our faith, that would constitute lying, would it not? Probably not the best way to engage with one’s spouse.

 

[raikou]

Hello Roger,

To be frank I think the opposite is true: insisting on sex could also be a mortal sin. Lust in the marital bed can do damage beyond repair. Sex isn’t owed to a spouse at all. The old notion that it is a duty owed is too tired to bring up. And guess what? If you are living as committed Catholics, then you know there are times when sex is out and you shouldn’t be asking.

Natural Family Planning requires abstinence from marital relations for a time. So, if you two are team and doing things the way they’re supposed to be done then the both of you know when you can and when you can’t. If your spouse doesn’t feel like it even though the green light says you can, oh well. Too bad. Chalk it up to experience and get a hobby.:coffeeread:

Glenda

P.S. To those who think it is a sin to refuse take that to the Confessional with you!

1 Cor 7:2-5 does say it is a duty.

Natural Family Planning, although involving abstinence, is still a mutual decision and is a temporary abstinence. This is supported by verse 5: “Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time…”

Also, I think if the spouse has a grave reason for refusing for a time, the other spouse should respect it (that is, as posted by glendab, the request is unreasonable)

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

1 Cor 7:2-5 does say it is a duty.

Natural Family Planning, although involving abstinence, is still a mutual decision and is a temporary abstinence. This is supported by verse 5: “Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time…”

Also, I think if the spouse has a grave reason for refusing for a time, the other spouse should respect it (that is, as posted by glendab, the request is unreasonable)

Interesting....... Il tell my wife it is her Duty... Cor 7:2-5

See how far I get…

Il get back to you how I go… If you don’t hear from me,you’ll know I failed

 

[Roger1]

See 1 Corinithians 7:2-5 and the encyclical Casti Conubii (especially paragraph 19) for more information on this topic.

St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas also expound upon this topic.

Here is the full quote of : 1 Corinithians 7:1-5

"[1] Now concerning the thing whereof you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

[2] But for fear of fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

[3] Let the husband render the debt to his wife, and the wife also in like manner to the husband.

[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband. And in like manner the husband also hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

[5] Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer; and return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency. "

 

[Roger1]

See 1 Corinithians 7:2-5 and the encyclical Casti Conubii (especially paragraph 19) for more information on this topic.

St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas also expound upon this topic.

Casti Connubi Dec. 31, 1930

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii_en.html

“19. The second blessing of matrimony which We said was mentioned by St. Augustine, is the blessing of conjugal honor which consists in the mutual fidelity of the spouses in fulfilling the marriage contract, so that what belongs to one of the parties by reason of this contract sanctioned by divine law, may not be denied to him or permitted to any third person; nor may there be conceded to one of the parties anything which, being contrary to the rights and laws of God and entirely opposed to matrimonial faith, can never be conceded.”

 

[glendab]

Hello Raikou.

Thank you for taking the time to read the post I made of the Prummer’s.

1 Cor 7:2-5 does say it is a duty.

Natural Family Planning, although involving abstinence, is still a mutual decision and is a temporary abstinence. This is supported by verse 5: “Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time…”

Also, I think if the spouse has a grave reason for refusing for a time, the other spouse should respect it (that is, as posted by glendab, the request is unreasonable)

Think most of the OP’s question is answered by paragraph 860 and following: **860. 2. The Obligation To Render The Marriage Dues.
Frist Principle. As often as one of the parties asks reasonably and seriously for the rendering of the marriage dues, the other is bound in justice to accede to the request; otherwise grave sin is committed.
Explanation. The request must be reasonable and serious.
The request is unreasonable if made in a state of drunkeness, or when one of the parties is seriously ill, ***or if the request is too frequent *or causes scandal to others, or if the act is accompanied by the practice of onanism.

But how frequently is too frequently? This is a determination I think that if both parties got the message of NFP during their Pre-Cana instruction would already know the parameters of how often is too often and when the “green light is on” so to speak and so could** joyfully anticipate **those times in their married life together. I also think if folks did take the instructions of the Church provided in Pre-Cana classes seriously then all would be “revealed” as to when God will be pleased with their union and when sin can enter in. It is after all the husband’s responsibility to guard his spouse from harm and that would include to her sexuality so it really does behoove him to find out what can ruin it for the both of them. This isn’t to say that the wife doesn’t also have a responsibility in that regard but she should know before hand when it is wrong to consent since it usually is her consent that allows things to continue and bear fruit.

Glenda

 

[Edward_H]

Marriage gives a spouse a RIGHT to sexual relations. It’s not a matter of charity, it’s a matter of JUSTICE.

That’s how strong a change a marriage is.

Now this doesn’t mean Neanderthal time.

 

[glendab]

Yeah, but we still haven’t heard back from Phil yet, the poor man.

Interesting… Il tell my wife it is her Duty… Cor 7:2-5
See how far I get…

Il get back to you how I go… If you don’t hear from me,you’ll know I failed

I’m wondering if he is in a snow drift somewhere?

Glenda

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

Yeah, but we still haven’t heard back from Phil yet, the poor man.

I’m wondering if he is in a snow drift somewhere?

Glenda

Well that’s 6. Days…no luck,bought beautiful Roses for Valentines…

But I don’t care… Iv told her before…"… You can be as big as a tank ( which she is not )

And in a wheel chair , ( which she is not ). And I will still love her as I always have done

  Plus,,,, one of many advantages of living in the Southern Hemisphere......

 We don't never ever get caught in a snow drift....or Blizzard.....

Fires and sand storms perhaps …lol.

 

[severus68]

Well that’s 6. Days…no luck,bought beautiful Roses for Valentines…

But I don’t care… Iv told her before…"… You can be as big as a tank ( which she is not )

And in a wheel chair , ( which she is not ). And I will still love her as I always have done

  Plus,,,, one of many advantages of living in the Southern Hemisphere......

 We don't never ever get caught in a snow drift....or Blizzard.....

Fires and sand storms perhaps …lol.

That you for stating the most important thing - love. You have an abundance.

 

[GomezU]

I stumbled onto this thread after searching for my own answers and I have read the whole thing.
So I’ve read:
-Masturbation is against the rules no matter what. It’s straight to Hell if you do it.
-You can sin by asking for sex
-You can sin by refusing sex
Sounds like were all in deep doo doo in a sexless situation. My wife has NO desire, will NOT discuss it.
We have a GREAT marriage and relationship besides this. After her hysterectomy, she lost all desire. I say the St. Michael prayer all the time in order not to do the things above. Sounds to me like we just can’t win. For me, I’m not ready to stop having sex, but sounds like I should deal with it because no matter what I do, I risk my mortal soul. Wow. We haven’t been together for 16 months. No end in sight. I am affectionate, patient comforting and loving. I am going to have to learn to be celibate. Frustrated, but remain STRONG!

 

[Edward_H]

I stumbled onto this thread after searching for my own answers and I have read the whole thing.
So I’ve read:
-Masturbation is against the rules no matter what. It’s straight to Hell if you do it.
-You can sin by asking for sex
-You can sin by refusing sex
Sounds like were all in deep doo doo in a sexless situation. My wife has NO desire, will NOT discuss it.
We have a GREAT marriage and relationship besides this. After her hysterectomy, she lost all desire. I say the St. Michael prayer all the time in order not to do the things above. Sounds to me like we just can’t win. For me, I’m not ready to stop having sex, but sounds like I should deal with it because no matter what I do, I risk my mortal soul. Wow. We haven’t been together for 16 months. No end in sight. I am affectionate, patient comforting and loving. I am going to have to learn to be celibate. Frustrated, but remain STRONG!

My thoughts go out to you and I commend your spirit of heroic, prayerful struggle. The only solace I can offer is to continue your cheerful, sacrificing, way. Ask God to give your wife a desire for marital relations, even if it is a desire merely to give you pleasure, rather than to receive ANY pleasure herself. And rectify your own intention…we should pursue the other’s happiness more than our own satisfaction. This came straight from a very good priest I know. When there is no desire…give anyway. Our desire should be on the bottom of the list. In a different circumstance I once heard a good thing about “desire” and feelings (not related to sex)…a fellow said “I guess feelings aren’t required” (meaning that if feelings were important to do some work, or some love…God would give them to us!! If we aren’t given them…then they aren’t needed, and we shouldn’t use the lack of feelings as an exuse for not doing something.)

And finally…don’t forget to offer up your struggles themselves for some great intention…your children’s marriages, all struggling priests, some intention of your wife’s. God will not waste your offering.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

I stumbled onto this thread after searching for my own answers and I have read the whole thing.
So I’ve read:
-Masturbation is against the rules no matter what. It’s straight to Hell if you do it.
-You can sin by asking for sex
-You can sin by refusing sex
Sounds like were all in deep doo doo in a sexless situation. My wife has NO desire, will NOT discuss it.
We have a GREAT marriage and relationship besides this. After her hysterectomy, she lost all desire. I say the St. Michael prayer all the time in order not to do the things above. Sounds to me like we just can’t win. For me, I’m not ready to stop having sex, but sounds like I should deal with it because no matter what I do, I risk my mortal soul. Wow. We haven’t been together for 16 months. No end in sight. I am affectionate, patient comforting and loving. I am going to have to learn to be celibate. Frustrated, but remain STRONG!

My first marriage lasted 21 years,most if not all contact ended after six years after the birth of our third son…
Second time around…12 years… Last two years … Well can’t recall…
She is just not interested at all… Just as well I can amuse myself.

 

[GomezU]

Yeah, it’s tough. But, it took me along time to come to terms with what I have to do. It is all too easy to make excuses for yourself and somehow legitimize porn or something to take the edge off. Heck, my wife has even suggested taking care of myself just to get me out of her hair! Talk about “Get behind me, Satan!” Geesh! I have to keep it all straight to endure this cross and try like crazy not to dwell on it. I even have to look away during Victoria’s Secret commercials. What I have to do is bear this cross and know that Jesus loves me and is with me. I receive Him in the Eucharist and beg him for the strength to endure. I can’t be selfish or bitter. It’s not what He wants. My wife and I had our time. And it was so great too - so loving, and so genuine. But that was then. I’m always a stone’s throw from falling, but I keep going because I don’t what to be responsible for any more lashes and blows to Him that are already there because of the stuff I’ve done. Prayers for all the guys in this situation.