How is faith itself NOT a work?

[rwillenborg]

People say to ‘just have faith’, and suggest that somehow ‘faith’ is a seperate thing entirely from ‘acts’.
I have trouble reconciling that.
Just because something doesn’t involve your arms and legs and fingers and toes doesn’t mean you are not actively DOING something, right?
First, I want to make sure I am understanding the term ‘faith’ properly.
‘Faith’ in this sense is simply BELIEF. It requires no outward action on your part, only your sincerity in saying the words ‘Jesus is Lord’ even if those words are just recited in your head. So, if I’m understanding rightly, faith can be done entirely INWARDLY, but would that necessarily make it not a work?
After all, prayer can and often does happen ENTIRELY within a person’s mind, often words are not even uttered aloud, and I don’t know of any Christian who would suggest that prayer is not ACTIVELY communicating with the Lord. In other words, just because it’s all happening in my head doesn’t mean it’s not something which I am ACTIVELY DOING.
Do you see my confusion?
I compare faith to love in this sense.
I could be miles and miles away from my children, DOING absolutely nothing for their benefit, maybe I’m sipping a margarita on a beach somewhere and they’re at home with grandma and grandpa (hey, a girl can dream, can’t she? ), I am STILL loving them even if I am not actively engaged with them and DOING something them, even from afar, is still work!!
So, likewise, I wonder how faith itself is not a work. I hear it said that ‘You just need to believe to be saved.’ but believing IS WORK!! Can anyone on this board even say that their faith is not something that they ACTIVELY WORK to nurture? I don’t know how anyone who calls themselves Christian in this post-christian world can hold on to their faith without working on it, and working very hard at it I might add.
So I’m confused as to how ‘faith’ is a seperate thing from ‘works’, when faith is such an active thing, and takes such effort.

Thanks for reading. You guys always come up with great answers (no, really, I’m impressed) and I’m hoping the answers to this will be no exception.

 

[Thing]

Show me your faith and I will show you my works…

If faith is trust, then your life ought naturally to be altered by it, as two people will act differently to the same situation depending on their trust or lack of trust. If one says one trusts ones children are ok at home whilst one vacations but one does not send the necessary spondoolies to said children then how is ones trust of any use at all.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I like to distinguish faith from belief.

I can build my faith, and I can try to believe. That said, I honestly don’t think I can control what I actually believe. I can wish to believe something, and I can study it in an attempt to believe it, but I can’t tell my mind, “you think this is completely true,” no, my mind tells ME what I believe and what I don’t – and when I’m not sure.

Faith is tied to the works, I believe. If you belief and have faith, then you are going to actively do works. I agree with you that in this sense, prayer can be active.

Then again, I caution that prayer and good wishes alone often aren’t enough:
Jas 2:14-18:

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.

I think it’s in the matter of what situation you’re in. If you can, you are obligated to physically help. If there really is no way to help them physically, then prayer must suffice, IMO.

Alan

 

[jerry_kelso]

People say to ‘just have faith’, and suggest that somehow ‘faith’ is a seperate thing entirely from ‘acts’.
I have trouble reconciling that.
Just because something doesn’t involve your arms and legs and fingers and toes doesn’t mean you are not actively DOING something, right?
First, I want to make sure I am understanding the term ‘faith’ properly.
‘Faith’ in this sense is simply BELIEF. It requires no outward action on your part, only your sincerity in saying the words ‘Jesus is Lord’ even if those words are just recited in your head. So, if I’m understanding rightly, faith can be done entirely INWARDLY, but would that necessarily make it not a work?
After all, prayer can and often does happen ENTIRELY within a person’s mind, often words are not even uttered aloud, and I don’t know of any Christian who would suggest that prayer is not ACTIVELY communicating with the Lord. In other words, just because it’s all happening in my head doesn’t mean it’s not something which I am ACTIVELY DOING.
Do you see my confusiion.
I compare faith to love in this sense.
I could be miles and miles away from my children, DOING absolutely nothing for their benefit, maybe I’m sipping a margarita on a beach somewhere and they’re at home with grandma and grandpa (hey, a girl can dream, can’t she? ), I am STILL loving them even if I am not actively engaged with them and DOING something them, even from afar, is still work!!
So, likewise, I wonder how faith itself is not a work. I hear it said that ‘You just need to believe to be saved.’ but believing IS WORK!! Can anyone on this board even say that their faith is not something that they ACTIVELY WORK to nurture? I don’t know how anyone who calls themselves Christian in this post-christian world can hold on to their faith without working on it, and working very hard at it I might add.
So I’m confused as to how ‘faith’ is a seperate thing from ‘works’, when faith is such an active thing, and takes such effort.

Thanks for reading. You guys always come up with great answers (no, really, I’m impressed) and I’m hoping the answers to this will be no exception.

Twillerborg: People go to seed about works and what all this encompases. At the same time it depends what your definition of workis. Reformed theology went to this extreme and they ended up going to extreme on God’s sovereignty and this is why they don’t believe in freewill choice.
Romans 4 says Abraham believed and it was counted to him as righteousness but, to the one who works the reward is not reckoned by grace, but of debt. James says that Abraham was justified by works . Faith without works is dead and this is true faith not mental assent which is dead faith.
Works in this passage is actions and his action was offering up as a sacrifice. Believing is the attaing salvation and faith has to have works (meaning action), which is fruit. Real salvation will show fruit as proof of being saved and even retaining salvation.
Our lives must trust and obey. Faith is trusting and obedience is a decision. God will not force us to do either one. So we must decide to act through faith and obedience. With true faith we please god and true obedience is better than sacrifice because the lord deligjts in those who obey his voice.
Some will say actions are not works but this wouldn’t be true across the board. This means. That now we have to go into he context to see what specific works he is talking about. Self effort is said to be it and faith, actions obedience and freewill choice would be self effort. How are they reconciled. The answer must be that these are self effort as a response to God’ that will achieve. So it must be that the no works would be self effort that is legalistic. The jewish bible put it as no legalistic observances.
True faith,true obedience, and works as response will give glory to God and not us. Works-dead faith-works-self effort-legalistic observances-No works of this nature will be a part of salvation.
This is the mechanics that cooperate with grace which is unmerited favor from God.
It is like a gift that is bestowed upon you for nothing you did, but still must accept it which is self effort as an action of response, not a work of self effort legalistiically. God Bless Jerry kelso

 

[diggerdomer]

People say to ‘just have faith’, and suggest that somehow ‘faith’ is a seperate thing entirely from ‘acts’.
I have trouble reconciling that.
Just because something doesn’t involve your arms and legs and fingers and toes doesn’t mean you are not actively DOING something, right?
First, I want to make sure I am understanding the term ‘faith’ properly.
‘Faith’ in this sense is simply BELIEF. It requires no outward action on your part, only your sincerity in saying the words ‘Jesus is Lord’ even if those words are just recited in your head. So, if I’m understanding rightly, faith can be done entirely INWARDLY, but would that necessarily make it not a work?
After all, prayer can and often does happen ENTIRELY within a person’s mind, often words are not even uttered aloud, and I don’t know of any Christian who would suggest that prayer is not ACTIVELY communicating with the Lord. In other words, just because it’s all happening in my head doesn’t mean it’s not something which I am ACTIVELY DOING.
Do you see my confusion?
I compare faith to love in this sense.
I could be miles and miles away from my children, DOING absolutely nothing for their benefit, maybe I’m sipping a margarita on a beach somewhere and they’re at home with grandma and grandpa (hey, a girl can dream, can’t she? ), I am STILL loving them even if I am not actively engaged with them and DOING something them, even from afar, is still work!!
So, likewise, I wonder how faith itself is not a work. I hear it said that ‘You just need to believe to be saved.’ but believing IS WORK!! Can anyone on this board even say that their faith is not something that they ACTIVELY WORK to nurture? I don’t know how anyone who calls themselves Christian in this post-christian world can hold on to their faith without working on it, and working very hard at it I might add.
So I’m confused as to how ‘faith’ is a seperate thing from ‘works’, when faith is such an active thing, and takes such effort.

Thanks for reading. You guys always come up with great answers (no, really, I’m impressed) and I’m hoping the answers to this will be no exception.

Faith is not entirely separate from acts, according to Catholic teaching. Faith is both a gift and something we are called to respond to.

 

[fhansen]

People say to ‘just have faith’, and suggest that somehow ‘faith’ is a seperate thing entirely from ‘acts’.
I have trouble reconciling that.
Just because something doesn’t involve your arms and legs and fingers and toes doesn’t mean you are not actively DOING something, right?
First, I want to make sure I am understanding the term ‘faith’ properly.
‘Faith’ in this sense is simply BELIEF. It requires no outward action on your part, only your sincerity in saying the words ‘Jesus is Lord’ even if those words are just recited in your head. So, if I’m understanding rightly, faith can be done entirely INWARDLY, but would that necessarily make it not a work?
After all, prayer can and often does happen ENTIRELY within a person’s mind, often words are not even uttered aloud, and I don’t know of any Christian who would suggest that prayer is not ACTIVELY communicating with the Lord. In other words, just because it’s all happening in my head doesn’t mean it’s not something which I am ACTIVELY DOING.
Do you see my confusion?
I compare faith to love in this sense.
I could be miles and miles away from my children, DOING absolutely nothing for their benefit, maybe I’m sipping a margarita on a beach somewhere and they’re at home with grandma and grandpa (hey, a girl can dream, can’t she? ), I am STILL loving them even if I am not actively engaged with them and DOING something them, even from afar, is still work!!
So, likewise, I wonder how faith itself is not a work. I hear it said that ‘You just need to believe to be saved.’ but believing IS WORK!! Can anyone on this board even say that their faith is not something that they ACTIVELY WORK to nurture? I don’t know how anyone who calls themselves Christian in this post-christian world can hold on to their faith without working on it, and working very hard at it I might add.
So I’m confused as to how ‘faith’ is a seperate thing from ‘works’, when faith is such an active thing, and takes such effort.

Thanks for reading. You guys always come up with great answers (no, really, I’m impressed) and I’m hoping the answers to this will be no exception.

It’s a valid point. If everything is by grace, and nothing of our own doing, then what good should even our faith be? Why/how would faith set us apart from any other human? Thank God the CC wisely recognizes that God does desire that we do our part, even if grace initiates it, and that many dispositions and acts, including faith, are necessary parts of that response.

 

[diggerdomer]

It’s a valid point. If everything is by grace, and nothing of our own doing, then what good should even our faith be? Why/how would faith set us apart from any other human? Thank God the CC wisely recognizes that God does desire that we do our part, even if grace initiates it, and that many dispositions and acts, including faith, are necessary parts of that response.

One’s faith would be good simply because it is from God. A Christian’s faith would set him or her apart from other humans because of his/her response to that gift.

 

[fhansen]

One’s faith would be good simply because it is from God. A Christian’s faith would set him or her apart from other humans because of his/her response to that gift.

The point is that, unlike with Reformed theology for the most part, the CC recognizes that God wants our response to be more than faith alone. And, like the OP is getting at, I think, she recognizes and teaches that what we do counts-faith working through love, our cooperating with Gods grace, etc.

 

[John7]

but believing IS WORK!!

Just thought I’d throw in a couple of verses,

John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[diggerdomer]

The point is that, unlike with Reformed theology for the most part, the CC recognizes that God wants our response to be more than faith alone. And, like the OP is getting at, I think, she recognizes and teaches that what we do counts-faith working through love, our cooperating with Gods grace, etc.

I agree. Sorry if I misunderstood what you posted. One’s response is essentially important, to me that’s the way to talk about “works” (as I understand you did). Thanks.

 

[SnakeMauler]

Faith is not works because if you have faith, your outward actions will be so influenced by faith and your everyday deeds will change, theoretically. Thus, if you have faith, your outward deeds and works will probably automatically change, like donating money and swearing less. So, the only time faith wouldn’t be works is if someone literally had faith and literally sat in their room all day and did nothing and never moved.

-Snakemauler