How is God defined?

[lemondiesel]

I was recently discussing the issue of “Well, who created God…?,” and it actually got my mind stirring.

People are that say “God is not subject to reason or intellect or anything like that.” How is He is not subject to what defines Him? Isn’t He All Reasonable, All Just, All Powerful. These attributes define his infinite Magnificence, His infinite Glory. Then my stoner friends argue that I have to realize that he created these things, but in actual form is beyond the human level. Look at humans in terms of God attributes and not God in terms of human attributes. It’d be like the bacteria in your intestine looking at it’s Universe (me) in terms of bacterial attributes, when clearly we are completely beyond bacteria and hence incomprehensible to them.

Well, I certainly can’t argue with that illustration. Bacteria may find us incomprehensible, but some unknowingly effect us with sickness.

But HOW!!, is God not subject when he is the purest for each attribute.* If God is describable, then there must be something even more miraculous which is not, which creates the Definitions for which God is defined.*

Or does God define Himself?

 

[honestquestions]

I was recently discussing the issue of “Well, who created God…?,” and it actually got my mind stirring.

But HOW!!, is God not subject when he is the purest for each attribute.* If God is describable, then there must be something even more miraculous which is not, which creates the Definitions for which God is defined.*

Or does God define Himself?

The typical atheist response (which I am) is to accept that it is unknown at this time and that is the proper position to hold. If there need not be a creator for God, then why not the same for everything that we have now. We would run into the problem of an infinite regress. Throughout history, there were many things we didn’t understand including many things that we thought would be impossible to comprehend, but as time progresses, history shows that we learn more and more about what once was thought of as the supernatural.

 

[lemondiesel]

The typical atheist response (which I am) is to accept that it is unknown at this time and that is the proper position to hold. If there need not be a creator for God, then why not the same for everything that we have now. We would run into the problem of an infinite regress. Throughout history, there were many things we didn’t understand including many things that we thought would be impossible to comprehend, but as time progresses, history shows that we learn more and more about what once was thought of as the supernatural.

I usually don’t do this but this is two threads that you have posted the exact same ignorant argument… its very very annoying.

The reason I find your argument weak is due to the fact that our Knowledge is limited. Earth is an aquarium floating through Existence. In my opinion, there must be something which is capable of describing why there is a fish bowl. Big Bang only describes what happened after the instant of Creation, and string theory is pure philosophy.

Everything in this Universe runs on Laws, but more importantly, Chance and Probability. The biggest “what if” question remains, “what if the law’s just stopped.” Utter chaos, because anything that goes against logic and reason shall not exist. If it does it is either considered coincidence or a miracle.

You argue that “We” just happened to come into Existence, by random chance, at some random point in time, only to discover We actually exist, and that there is actually something which exists. (If you even realized that yet, being an atheist) Brother, I’m far beyond your view point. I had to find myself before moving on from your very viewpoint.

As I said, the Universe is run on Laws, but more important Reason. Everything happens for a Reason, literally. Once something happens, at any moment in time, it happened. (In other words, “Once something happens it already happened.” ) The most important Law of the Universe is that Time never stops flowing. Once something happens you can never go back. (unless you imagine it, or record it…boring)

There must be some plane of Existence which defines why such Law’s exist. They exist on Reason and Logic. But what makes Reason and Logic exist? The Universe? Could the Universe and the Law’s exist separately? **Does Reason exist because the Universe exists, or does the Universe exist because Reason exists?**These are pretty standard questions.

We have the ability to understand God and know that He exists. We will never know what its like to be God, but Hey! maybe that’s what Heaven is like… imaginable isn’t it?
…which is why there should be no political separation of Church and State (LOL like how I squeezed that in there )

We are here to bring Reason. The only valid argument (towards religions) atheists have is ridding religion from extremists.

Reason allows for us to have a higher plane of existence. Think of the plane of existence which is Reason, and what created Reason.

Seriously don’t remember writing this

 

[StrawberryJam]

I usually don’t do this but this is two threads that you have posted the exact same ignorant argument… its very very annoying.

The reason I find your argument weak is due to the fact that our Knowledge is limited. Earth is an aquarium floating through Existence. In my opinion, there must be something which is capable of describing why there is a fish bowl. Big Bang only describes what happened after the instant of Creation, and string theory is pure philosophy.

Everything in this Universe runs on Laws, but more importantly, Chance and Probability. The biggest “what if” question remains, “what if the law’s just stopped.” Utter chaos, because anything that goes against logic and reason shall not exist. If it does it is either considered coincidence or a miracle.

You argue that “We” just happened to come into Existence, by random chance, at some random point in time, only to discover We actually exist, and that there is actually something which exists. (If you even realized that yet, being an atheist) Brother, I’m far beyond your view point. I had to find myself before moving on from your very viewpoint.

As I said, the Universe is run on Laws, but more important Reason. Everything happens for a Reason, literally. Once something happens, at any moment in time, it happened. (In other words, “Once something happens it already happened.” ) The most important Law of the Universe is that Time never stops flowing. Once something happens you can never go back. (unless you imagine it, or record it…boring)

There must be some plane of Existence which defines why such Law’s exist. They exist on Reason and Logic. But what makes Reason and Logic exist? The Universe? Could the Universe and the Law’s exist separately? **Does Reason exist because the Universe exists, or does the Universe exist because Reason exists?**These are pretty standard questions.

We have the ability to understand God and know that He exists. We will never know what its like to be God, but Hey! maybe that’s what Heaven is like… imaginable isn’t it?
…which is why there should be no political separation of Church and State (LOL like how I squeezed that in there )

We are hear to bring Reason. The only valid argument (towards religions) atheists have is ridding religion from extremists.

Reason allows for us to have a higher plane of existence. Think of the plane of existence which is Reason, and what created Reason.

Seriously don’t remember writing this

Insults and more fluffy talk.
This is the best Jesus followers can do?

 

[lemondiesel]

Insults and more fluffy talk.
This is the best Jesus followers can do?

I don’t follow Jesus. I accept that he very well may have existed, and that He came to Understand the Reason, and why such Reason exists. Our problem is that Reason changes in Civilization, so the story of us being judge on our actions came into being. We are our own gods, creating either pain and suffering or compassion and charity. In a sense we are both Devils and Gods, the Ying and the Yang.

Sorry, just don’t categorize me yet.

 

[honestquestions]

The reason I find your argument weak is due to the fact that our Knowledge is limited. Earth is an aquarium floating through Existence. In my opinion, there must be something which is capable of describing why there is a fish bowl. Big Bang only describes what happened after the instant of Creation, and string theory is pure philosophy.

Of course knowledge is limited, or so it seems. Do we not uncover more and more truths as time progresses? If we have a difficult unanswered question at a given time, shouldn’t we say, we simply have a lack of understanding at this time, and continue working on it?

You argue that “We” just happened to come into Existence, by random chance, at some random point in time, only to discover We actually exist, and that there is actually something which exists.

I assume you me “we” as in planet earth and before the big bang (and not questioning evolution). No I argue that at this time the grandest of questions have simply not been sufficiently answered yet, and perhaps we shouldn’t press the ‘easy’ button and give up saying God must have done it. Isn’t this the argument from ignorance? Surely we will remember history when people believed many more supernatural things, until science answered it otherwise.

There must be some plane of Existence which defines why such Law’s exist. They exist on Reason and Logic. But what makes Reason and Logic exist? The Universe? Could the Universe and the Law’s exist separately? **Does Reason exist because the Universe exists, or does the Universe exist because Reason exists?**These are pretty standard questions.

Maybe we should work on answering them rather than pressing the easy button.

The only valid argument (towards religions) atheists have is ridding religion from extremists.

While I agree religion does some good and bad things in the world, I’m more concerned of whether or not it is true.

 

[lemondiesel]

Of course knowledge is limited, or so it seems. Do we not uncover more and more truths as time progresses? If we have a difficult unanswered question at a given time, shouldn’t we say, we simply have a lack of understanding at this time, and continue working on it?

We would need to view the Universe outside in.

I assume you me “we” as in planet earth and before the big bang (and not questioning evolution). No I argue that at this time the grandest of questions have simply not been sufficiently answered yet, and perhaps we shouldn’t press the ‘easy’ button and give up saying God must have done it. Isn’t this the argument from ignorance? Surely we will remember history when people believed many more supernatural things, until science answered it otherwise.

No I mean “We” as in the collective “I’s” of humans. Do you really accept coincidence that the video camera became aware that it was a video camera, evening naming himself video camera. But how was the video camera assemble and for what purpose.

Maybe we should work on answering them rather than pressing the easy button.

Good luck.

While I agree religion does some good and bad things in the world, I’m more concerned of whether or not it is true.

Religions are like fruit. There’s apples, oranges, bananas, etc, and they each have their own characteristics, but they are all still fruit. Religion was created the moment Man wondered “Why I Exist.” Its unraveled from there, but it does have a needed purpose.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I don’t follow Jesus. I accept that he very well may have existed, and that He came to Understand the Reason, and why such Reason exists. Our problem is that Reason changes in Civilization, so the story of us being judge on our actions came into being. We are our own gods, creating either pain and suffering or compassion and charity. In a sense we are both Devils and Gods, the Ying and the Yang.

Sorry, just don’t categorize me yet.

No need to be sorry, I have more to learn and am willing to adjust my worldview accordingly upon more evidence at any time. Humility really means the ability to be open to new evidence, evem if it does not follow the original hypothesis,
That is true freedom.
That is unconditional love.
What you all have been searching for all this time, you actually have right in front of you and you don’t see it.
If wishes and wishful thinking could be reality
I would much rather be catholic.
They have much more depth and breath of what one could call a soul in their very hearts ,and their expression in the arts.
They give and they love.
It is hard to ignore

 

[stephe1987]

God is outside of time, as well as inside of it. Since God existed before time itself, he does not need a creator. Only that which BEGINS TO EXIST needs a cause. This is basic philosophy… a course which, based on their works, most of today’s militant atheists would fail.

Matter is finite and therefore needs a cause. Some scientists are now saying that time is a property of matter. God is immaterial (spirit), so again, he would not need a cause.

I suggest atheists study basic philosophy and theology. Then they wouldn’t ask such silly questions. Another common atheist question is, “If God is all-powerful, then can he create a stone big enough that he cannot lift?” or, “Can God create a square circle?” ← A course in basic logic would help the atheists answer these questions.

 

[lemondiesel]

No need to be sorry, I have more to learn and am willing to adjust my worldview accordingly upon more evidence at any time. Humility really means the ability to be open to new evidence, evem if it does not follow the original hypothesis,
That is true freedom.
That is unconditional love.
What you all have been searching for all this time, you actually have right in front of you and you don’t see it.
If wishes and wishful thinking could be reality
I would much rather be catholic.
They have much more depth and breath of what one could call a soul in their very hearts ,and their expression in the arts.
They give and they love.
It is hard to ignore

Exactly, every second through time we experience, we should be thankful that we are even presented the opportunity! I have personally found that Catholics bring Spirituality to the realm of Morality and Immorality, whether or not such Laws truly exist.

 

[po18guy]

Atheist war!!! Actually, I define God as the only One Who can surround and contain infinity.

 

[lemondiesel]

Atheist war!!! Actually, I define God as the only One Who can surround and contain infinity.

If you think of it as our perspectives contained in an air bubble around a rock floating in the Universe, which is a bubble of matter inside an ocean of infinity

…then it gets kind of trippy doesn’t it :whacky:

 

[honestquestions]

God is outside of time, as well as inside of it. Since God existed before time itself, he does not need a creator. Only that which BEGINS TO EXIST needs a cause.

Logical fallacy. Fill in the word God with anything else. You created a definition which cannot be questioned itself.

 

[honestquestions]

We would need to view the Universe outside in.

What?

Do you really accept coincidence that the video camera became aware that it was a video camera, evening naming himself video camera. But how was the video camera assemble and for what purpose.

What? lol

Religions are like fruit. There’s apples, oranges, bananas, etc, and they each have their own characteristics, but they are all still fruit.

What? lol

Religion was created the moment Man wondered “Why I Exist.”

Right, it filled in the gaps of the unknowable to make man feel better.

 

[lemondiesel]

What?

Pretend you are in a clear glass dome building which a habitat set up for you. You can see the outside world, but you can only interact with the dome allows you to. Over time you learn what happens outside of the glass, but you know the inside much much more.

One day, you are freed from the glass dome. You study it, and eventually create your own.

Who created ours?

What? lol

Humans were once any other species of Life. One day we realized we were apart of a reality and that “We” existed. “We” of course being the collected “I’s” as each individual human being creates its own self identity. “I” was eventually Created by Reason, as were “You.”

We are created from God’s image, the image of Reason. Since everything happens for a reason, we are the current physical image at this very moment in time.

What? lol

Use your head…

Goodnight

 

[donsnow]

I usually don’t do this but this is two threads that you have posted the exact same ignorant argument… its very very annoying.

The reason I find your argument weak is due to the fact that our Knowledge is limited. Earth is an aquarium floating through Existence. In my opinion, there must be something which is capable of describing why there is a fish bowl. Big Bang only describes what happened after the instant of Creation, and string theory is pure philosophy.

Everything in this Universe runs on Laws, but more importantly, Chance and Probability. The biggest “what if” question remains, “what if the law’s just stopped.” Utter chaos, because anything that goes against logic and reason shall not exist. If it does it is either considered coincidence or a miracle.

You argue that “We” just happened to come into Existence, by random chance, at some random point in time, only to discover We actually exist, and that there is actually something which exists. (If you even realized that yet, being an atheist) Brother, I’m far beyond your view point. I had to find myself before moving on from your very viewpoint.

As I said, the Universe is run on Laws, but more important Reason. Everything happens for a Reason, literally. Once something happens, at any moment in time, it happened. (In other words, “Once something happens it already happened.” ) The most important Law of the Universe is that Time never stops flowing. Once something happens you can never go back. (unless you imagine it, or record it…boring)

There must be some plane of Existence which defines why such Law’s exist. They exist on Reason and Logic. But what makes Reason and Logic exist? The Universe? Could the Universe and the Law’s exist separately? **Does Reason exist because the Universe exists, or does the Universe exist because Reason exists?**These are pretty standard questions.

We have the ability to understand God and know that He exists. We will never know what its like to be God, but Hey! maybe that’s what Heaven is like… imaginable isn’t it?
…which is why there should be no political separation of Church and State (LOL like how I squeezed that in there )

We are here to bring Reason. The only valid argument (towards religions) atheists have is ridding religion from extremists.

Reason allows for us to have a higher plane of existence. Think of the plane of existence which is Reason, and what created Reason.

Seriously don’t remember writing this

Good morning, lemondiesel,

For a philosophy thread, your post is right on. Only, we shouldn’t limit God to a philosophical concept. Because, He’s real.

I think the best way to define or describe God is with Jesus’ words and examples. Jesus Christ says, “God is spirit.”
St. John says, “God is love.”
Jesus Christ says, “I am the way, the truth, the life and the resurrection.”

I present the above as the essence of God. I’d like to submit, that without love, we cannot comprehend the true nature of God.

God loves you,
'Don

 

[lemondiesel]

Good morning, lemondiesel,

For a philosophy thread, your post is right on. Only, we shouldn’t limit God to a philosophical concept. Because, He’s real.

I think the best way to define or describe God is with Jesus’ words and examples. Jesus Christ says, “God is spirit.”
St. John says, “God is love.”
Jesus Christ says, “I am the way, the truth, the life and the resurrection.”

I present the above as the essence of God. I’d like to submit, that without love, we cannot comprehend the true nature of God.

God loves you,
'Don

Thank you, and I couldn’t agree with you more. I have found that I came to the very same conclusion in dreams, as weird as that sounds. Forgive me for wandering a bit, but I find that what we imagine leads us towards God. I am a lucid sleeper, and I find myself participating in the majority of my dreams. When I am lucid, I tend to search for questions in a World capable of any possibility. So what do I do?

I kill myself (in my dreams)

And I am taken to a place of no images, no pure darkness, no pure lightness… it is a place of random thought. After thinking about this, I believe my Mind tells me that God is unimaginable, but there is a feeling of his presence. What is this presence?

I have come to realize that the Universe and Reason Exist as separate identities, but are incapable of existing separately. This then really creates a separation of non existence and existence.

And seeing that We have no choice whether or not we come into Being, we are presented with the Gift of Life from unconditional Love.

God’s Love

 

[StrawberryJam]

Thank you, and I couldn’t agree with you more. I have found that I came to the very same conclusion in dreams, as weird as that sounds. Forgive me for wandering a bit, but I find that what we imagine leads us towards God. I am a lucid sleeper, and I find myself participating in the majority of my dreams. When I am lucid, I tend to search for questions in a World capable of any possibility. So what do I do?

I kill myself (in my dreams)

And I am taken to a place of no images, no pure darkness, no pure lightness… it is a place of random thought. After thinking about this, I believe my Mind tells me that God is unimaginable, but there is a feeling of his presence. What is this presence?

I have come to realize that the Universe and Reason Exist as separate identities, but are incapable of existing separately. This then really creates a separation of non existence and existence.

And seeing that We have no choice whether or not we come into Being, we are presented with the Gift of Life from unconditional Love.

God’s Love

Is there free will if we have no choice whether or not we come into Being? Is this a gift?

 

[po18guy]

Is there free will if we have no choice whether or not we come into Being? Is this a gift?

Yes, life is a gift. Once it has been given you, you have the right to it - at whatever stage of development.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Yes, life is a gift. Once it has been given you, you have the right to it - at whatever stage of development.

You did not answer the part about free will, could you explain that part.