How is "in good standing" checked?

[DarkLight]

I read that for certain things a person must be a Catholic “in good standing”. My question is, how is this verified? I ask specifically because me and most of my friends are in a position with little money and a lot of moving around. This tends to make us fairly off the grid as far as the church is concerned. Little money means donations, if they happen, are usually a couple times a year rather than weekly. Moving around means that we might end up bouncing between churches a lot due to frequent moves and various trip around the country. I’m wondering if this could end up being an issue for choosing a confirmation sponsor, since there would be no way to confirm things like Mass attendance?

 

[Dale_M]

I read that for certain things a person must be a Catholic “in good standing”. My question is, how is this verified?

When I was considering becoming a Benedictine Oblate, one of the things they looked for was registration with a parish and a letter from a priest there which spoke of my faith. Financial contributions didn’t matter.

 

[etmom]

My church checks if you are registered at the parish (even if you move frequently, while you are attending a specific parish, you should be registered) and offertory envelope usage. Envelope usage is NOT the same as amount of money given. Even if the amount if minimal, say $1-$2 in the envelope (or even the offertory envelope turned in empty), the number of envelopes tracks Mass attendance.

 

[thistle]

I read that for certain things a person must be a Catholic “in good standing”. My question is, how is this verified? I ask specifically because me and most of my friends are in a position with little money and a lot of moving around. This tends to make us fairly off the grid as far as the church is concerned. Little money means donations, if they happen, are usually a couple times a year rather than weekly. Moving around means that we might end up bouncing between churches a lot due to frequent moves and various trip around the country. I’m wondering if this could end up being an issue for choosing a confirmation sponsor, since there would be no way to confirm things like Mass attendance?

I would say its a Catholic in a state of grace although some might widen that definition.

 

[KCT]

My church checks if you are registered at the parish (even if you move frequently, while you are attending a specific parish, you should be registered) and offertory envelope usage. Envelope usage is NOT the same as amount of money given. Even if the amount if minimal, say $1-$2 in the envelope (or even the offertory envelope turned in empty), the number of envelopes tracks Mass attendance.

Same where I am.

No one knows the state of your soul, but attending Mass and giving to God, even if only a small amount, can be tracked. (in a good way!)

God can not be outdone in love and generosity. I’d encourage you to give, even if only $1 each week.

 

[SwizzleStick]

My church checks if you are registered at the parish (even if you move frequently, while you are attending a specific parish, you should be registered) and offertory envelope usage. Envelope usage is NOT the same as amount of money given. Even if the amount if minimal, say $1-$2 in the envelope (or even the offertory envelope turned in empty), the number of envelopes tracks Mass attendance.

This.

Following is a link to an older thread regarding envelope usage, which may be of interest to you, DarkLight.

Those DARN envelopes!
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=255392

Here’s an excerpt from a post on the thread linked above that is relevant to this discussion.

mercygate:

… One of the reasons to track is that a lot of people just walk up and want to get married, have their kid baptized, bury uncle Herbert, and have NO idea whatever about what it means to be Catholic. In the case of the school, when a school has a waiting list, who ya gonna admit? Your kid? Or somebody from the next town, who never sets foot in the Church?

 

[Corki]

I read that for certain things a person must be a Catholic “in good standing”. My question is, how is this verified? I ask specifically because me and most of my friends are in a position with little money and a lot of moving around. This tends to make us fairly off the grid as far as the church is concerned. Little money means donations, if they happen, are usually a couple times a year rather than weekly. Moving around means that we might end up bouncing between churches a lot due to frequent moves and various trip around the country. I’m wondering if this could end up being an issue for choosing a confirmation sponsor, since there would be no way to confirm things like Mass attendance?

It could be an issue. Part of being “in good standing” is participating in your local parish. There is no way to predict what a future parish might require, unless you know that you will be asked to sponsor someone in the relatively near future. I am sponsor to three young ladies. For one, I didn’t need anything; for the other two, my pastor had to sign a letter. When my husband was a sponsor, he had to attend a class. Each parish has it’s own method of working this out.

 

[JoanC]

Great question Darklight! It’s a phrase we use but don’t think about.
How does it apply to not only lay people but the ordained as well?
Are traditional Catholics the only ones in “good standing”.?
What about Progressives? Are you not in good standing if you question Catholic doctrine or the Magisterium?
Are you in good standing if you go to Mass every Sunday, Confession, but don’t do anything else?
How does it apply to those bishops who covered up for the abusive priests? The pope believes that they are still in good standing but some of our sisters and other lay people are not because they dare to speak on some issues.

You get the picture. Maybe we should stop using that phrase. It’s too broad. Makes me wonder if any of us are Catholics in good standing. No one is perfect.

 

[Corki]

Great question Darklight! It’s a phrase we use but don’t think about.
How does it apply to not only lay people but the ordained as well?

Of course it applied to the ordained. It is easy to verify that a deacon, priest or Bishop is in good standing.

Are traditional Catholics the only ones in “good standing”.?

Of course not. But **practicing **Catholics are the only ones who can be in good standing.

What about Progressives? Are you not in good standing if you question Catholic doctrine or the Magisterium?

This one would be a matter of degree as well as what you are doing about resolving your issues with Church teaching. There is nothing wrong with questioning if you are working to properly form your conscience.

Are you in good standing if you go to Mass every Sunday, Confession, but don’t do anything else?

No. At the bare minimum, a Catholic in good standing must follow **all **of the precepts of the Church.

How does it apply to those bishops who covered up for the abusive priests? The pope believes that they are still in good standing but some of our sisters and other lay people are not because they dare to speak on some issues.

A **past **sin does not affect the fact that a person can be currently in good standing.

You get the picture. Maybe we should stop using that phrase. It’s too broad. Makes me wonder if any of us are Catholics in good standing. No one is perfect.

What phrase would you prefer? This isn’t about perfection. It’s about determining if someone is connected enough to the Church community to be a sponsor. It’s only half of the requirement. A sponsor must be a Catholic in good standing but he/she must also be living a life consistent with Church teaching. Two criteria - there’s overlap, of course but they both must be met.

 

[DarkLight]

Thanks. Honestly it’s not just the envelopes that are the issue - I’m sure that could be worked out. The big issue is that we are in a field that tends to involve a lot of travel and moving around. So we aren’t going to be showing up at the “home” parish for a significant portion of the time, and even what parish is home might be changing frequently. It admittedly does limit any “extra” involvement as well, due to practical inability to commit to being in one place regularly. I think it would be best for me to have a sponsor from my own community because of these factors; we’re more used to keeping track of each other through all the moving around in ways that someone who’s more settled in one area might not be.

They’re good people, serious students, and more than willing to live out their faith in life. It’s just in different ways because of different life circumstances. I think most of us see our studies as a way of glorifying God (yes, grad school in some fields can involve that much moving around!).

 

[ProVobis]

I read that for certain things a person must be a Catholic “in good standing”. My question is, how is this verified? I ask specifically because me and most of my friends are in a position with little money and a lot of moving around. This tends to make us fairly off the grid as far as the church is concerned. Little money means donations, if they happen, are usually a couple times a year rather than weekly. Moving around means that we might end up bouncing between churches a lot due to frequent moves and various trip around the country. I’m wondering if this could end up being an issue for choosing a confirmation sponsor, since there would be no way to confirm things like Mass attendance?

Good question. My guess would be one is in “good standing” if he’s eligible to receive the sacraments, especially confession and communion. If one is divorced and remarried or excommunicated for any reason he would probably not be in “good standing.” Where you attend Mass shouldn’t matter that much IMO.

 

[Phemie]

Thanks. Honestly it’s not just the envelopes that are the issue - I’m sure that could be worked out. The big issue is that we are in a field that tends to involve a lot of travel and moving around. So we aren’t going to be showing up at the “home” parish for a significant portion of the time, and even what parish is home might be changing frequently. It admittedly does limit any “extra” involvement as well, due to practical inability to commit to being in one place regularly. I think it would be best for me to have a sponsor from my own community because of these factors; we’re more used to keeping track of each other through all the moving around in ways that someone who’s more settled in one area might not be.

They’re good people, serious students, and more than willing to live out their faith in life. It’s just in different ways because of different life circumstances. I think most of us see our studies as a way of glorifying God (yes, grad school in some fields can involve that much moving around!).

Make yourself known to the Pastor. That’s my best advice.

If you go to your local parish and introduce yourself to your pastor and mention that you do a lot of travelling for school or work, chances are that he will remember you whenever you need to prove you are a Catholic in good standing.

I have run into this when a couple requested that kind of certification in my parish. I had no idea who they were, I’d never even heard their name before. The pastor also didn’t know who they were by their name but they insisted they were at Mass every week. If they had actually introduced themselves and made sure to speak to the priest each week, there would have been a better chance that he would have known who they were.

Also remember that a ‘Catholic in good standing’ is one who is not in an invalid marriage, not living common-law, etc.

In my parish we only provide envelopes to those who request them, a savings of about $1200/year, not a small amount in a parish with revenues of less than $60K/year. We know parishioners because they make themselves known to us.

 

[Joannm]

We ask for a letter from the person’s parish where they are registerd in order to be a Godparent of Confirmation sponsor. At the very least we know they belong to a parish. When you register, at least in my parish, we ask about the sacraments you received, the church and dates, so at least we have proof a person is fully initiated.

The big problem we have is that people lie. It’s unfortunate but it happens too often. We have found out that people who said they were fully initiated weren’t and some weren’t even Catholic. We had a couple who said the Godparent was Catholic when in fact they were Jewish. We have had couples say the Godparent was in good standing when in fact they were divorced and remarried. So now we have a form that their pastor has to sign. If they can’t get it signed they can’t be the Godparent.

 

[SMHW]

The phrase “in good standing” is a practical statement. In other words, it’s intended to mean something measurable. The pastor can only “measure” what he or his delegates observe. The phrase may refer to the state of a Catholic’s soul in the abstract, but we’re not talking about the abstract…

So in this sense, a observant, practicing Catholic who attends Mass daily, goes to confession weekly, anonymously donates 50% of his earnings to his local parish, but does not register with the parish or interact with fellow parishioners, might not be considered “in good standing”.

In other words, it’s a good idea to register with the local parish and/or become active in parish “ministries”.

 

[iloveangels]

We ask for a letter from the person’s parish where they are registerd in order to be a Godparent of Confirmation sponsor. At the very least we know they belong to a parish. When you register, at least in my parish, we ask about the sacraments you received, the church and dates, so at least we have proof a person is fully initiated.

The big problem we have is that people lie. It’s unfortunate but it happens too often. We have found out that people who said they were fully initiated weren’t and some weren’t even Catholic. We had a couple who said the Godparent was Catholic when in fact they were Jewish. We have had couples say the Godparent was in good standing when in fact they were divorced and remarried. So now we have a form that their pastor has to sign. If they can’t get it signed they can’t be the Godparent.

In third orders, when people come wondering if they have a vocation or not, checks are done. Someone who isn’t a Catholic in good standing doesn’t have a vocation to a Catholic third order and we know that, so it’s very important to check at least these things: status in their home parish, personal history, marriage status, the presence of basis knowledge of the Catholic faith, spiritual condition, and so on. Formation lasts for a long time, and these things come to light if they’re awry. Moderate to strong deficiency in any of these areas is a strong sign that a vocation is missing.

 

[iloveangels]

The phrase “in good standing” is a practical statement. In other words, it’s intended to mean something measurable. The pastor can only “measure” what he or his delegates observe. The phrase may refer to the state of a Catholic’s soul in the abstract, but we’re not talking about the abstract…

So in this sense, a observant, practicing Catholic who attends Mass daily, goes to confession weekly, anonymously donates 50% of his earnings to his local parish, but does not register with the parish or interact with fellow parishioners, might not be considered “in good standing”.

In other words, it’s a good idea to register with the local parish and/or become active in parish “ministries”.

This is correct. In good standing usually refers to measurable things, like attendance, how well the priest knows you, sacramental records and so on.

I’m in a third order and when people show up at our doors wondering whether they have a vocation or not, there are two categories of things to look at:

1. whether they’re in good standing with the church. This tends to be things like references and recommendations from their pastor and others; sacramental history; marriage, family & personal history; parish membership; testable knowledge of the basics of Catholic belief & practice. This is the kind of stuff you might be able to put on an application or questionnaire.
2. whether they have the other properties additionally required for a vocation to be present: goals, moral precepts and personal characteristics that fit in with those of the actual order (which may or may not be different than popular perceptions of what those are); willingness & ability to learn in several ways; willingness & ability to participate inter-personally in a proper manner; understanding of the charism; time and motivation to profess and then actually live out the life which will almost always include gatherings, prayer, practices, apostolates, etc etc. This is the kind of stuff that applies both to third order life in general, and to each third order in particular.

It’s a long process; it takes years. But the length of it almost always guarantees that everything becomes evident. If anything is truly awry and can’t be addressed well enough to bring it up to speed, it means that no vocation is present, at least to the order being tried out for size at that time.

But yeah, the term “in good standing” tends to refer to the measurable things, ie. those things in my item 1 above.

 

[iloveangels]

For laypeople not looking to join a third order, item 1. would be the same; the same sorts of things would still be measures of “good standing” in the Church.

Item 2 would be somewhat different in detail and type because the vocation is different in detail and type–but not in extent. It would be all the commitments and moral convictions, emotions and ideals, prayers and actions, faith and belief particular to a person who has a vocation as a parish Catholic. This is as much a vocation as the vocation to a third order or a religious order, and in all truth, the vocation to parish life is the one that the overwhelming majority of people possess. This vocation is absolutely essential to the Church and deserves respect too.

This is the Universal Call to Holiness referred to in Lumen Gentium.

 

[drafdog]

Being a creature of habit is the best way to provide evidence of church attendance. Go to the same church each week and the same mass. Sit in the same pew if possible. Meet the people who habitually sit in that same area of the church; get to know them. Even if you never put an envelope in the basket there will be others who are better known to the pastor that can vouch for you. Get in line with the other parishioners after mass and say hello to the pastor as he greets people leaving after mass. Use the little social graces to make yourself known to the parish. You don’t need to be volunteering for everything or putting a lot of money in the envelope. Just be there and visible.
I’ve moved around a lot (21 different addresses in 37 years of marriage) and was never very good at having money for the envelopes but the priest always knew us and our four children.

Reb Levi

 

[Vico]

I read that for certain things a person must be a Catholic “in good standing”. My question is, how is this verified? I ask specifically because me and most of my friends are in a position with little money and a lot of moving around. This tends to make us fairly off the grid as far as the church is concerned. Little money means donations, if they happen, are usually a couple times a year rather than weekly. Moving around means that we might end up bouncing between churches a lot due to frequent moves and various trip around the country. I’m wondering if this could end up being an issue for choosing a confirmation sponsor, since there would be no way to confirm things like Mass attendance?

I don’t know how parishes and dioceses actually determine good standing, but it could be a simple as regular participation in a parish, and giving what you can.

For the on-the-move Catholic you can be a member of a diocese or parish (CIC) based upon where you reside, if transient, and the proper parish is the closest one of the same Church sui iuris:

Canon 107—§1. Each person acquires a proper pastor and ordinary through both domicile and quasi-domicile.
§2. The proper pastor or ordinary of a transient is the pastor or ordinary of the place in which the transient is actually staying.
§3. The proper pastor of one who has only a diocesan domicile or quasi-domicile is the pastor of the place in which such a person is actually staying.

         Canon             102—§1. Domicile is             acquired by residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese,             which either is joined with the intention of remaining there permanently unless called             away, or has been protracted for five complete years. 
         §2. Quasi-domicile is acquired by residence             within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese which either is joined             with the intention of remaining there at least three months, unless called away, or has in             fact been protracted for three months. 
         §3. A domicile or quasi-domicile within the             territory of a parish is called parochial; in the territory of a diocese, even though not             in a particular parish, it is called diocesan.
          
         Canon             518—As a general rule a             parish is to be territorial, that is it embraces all the Christian faithful within a             certain territory; whenever it is judged useful, however, personal parishes are to be             established based upon rite, language, the nationality of the Christian faithful within             some territory or some other determining factor.

 

[Elizabeth502]

This:

**practicing **Catholics are the only ones who can be in good standing. … There is nothing wrong with questioning if you are working to properly form your conscience…At the bare minimum, a Catholic in good standing must follow **all **of the precepts of the Church.

Naturally that is separate from the issue of personal sin. It simply means that obstinate opposition to core Church teaching is incompatible with integral participation in Catholic community. It’s illogical to perform any official function in the Church (sponsorship, ministerial leadership, catechist, Catholic school teacher, etc.) while publicly opposing Catholic precepts.

This is parallel to a district attorney being required to support the criminal laws on the books, to a government official being required to support constitutional principles. When you are performing an official function, you are representing that community and are assumed to be in transparent agreement with what that community represents, despite whatever private intellectual struggles you have with it.