How is it Judaism survived the destruction of the Temple?

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In a real sense it did destroy many of the different sects that we see in the New Testament. Like there are no Saducees or Pharisees anymore. Or Essenes. I suppose the Rabiinic tradition is closest to the Pharisees however.
 
Right. I was using the word study in the more traditional sense. Okay I see what you mean, of course Christians don’t believe we have to put into practice anything in the Hebrew Bible that’s not natural law, I believe, and I guess Judaism has fallen victim to the secularist world we live in, just like Christianity has.
 
Christ was the fulfillment of the Torah. He even said so. He came to His own, but His own received Him not, but the intent was for His message to go to ALL the world. Just as both Jews and Gentiles (Romans) had a role to play in His crucifixion, so both Jews and Gentiles benefit from His salvation.

I have to say that you will never truly understand what I’m saying if you have not been given the gift of faith. That is what I meant earlier about the carnal mind vs the spiritual mind.

I wanted to also say that if you are a Jew, I really don’t have interest in debating. I came to this forum thinking it was primarily for Catholics and those interested sincerely in becoming Catholic. I have no real interest in debating unconverted people, if God wants them to find Him, He will. 🙂
 
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The first five books of Moses are called the Chumash. When included with the rest of the Jewish Bible, its called the TNK (Tanakh: Torah, Nevi’im, Ketuvim…Law, Prophets, Holy Writings). Jesus even referred to the Tanakh in a similar form when He spoke of “the Law and the Prophets”.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
I consider myself a Reform Jew with Conservative leanings.
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As someone simply lurking on this thread, thanks Meltzerboy for your informative and, I think it is correct to say, your patient posts, allowing us to see Judaism a little better from the “inside.”

I think it was Pope St. John Paul II that said it best when he referred to the Jewish people as “our elder brothers in faith.”

Shalom
 
Simple. Judaism did not begin with a Temple. It began with Abraham.

Judaism is the religious expression or practice of the Jewish people, the descendants of Abraham, the tribe descendended from him. It did not incorporate a Temple for generations upon generations until after the Patriarchs had come and gone.

Judaism actually flourished during the time of the Babylonian exile, while the First Temple sat in ruins. It was during this period that the Hebrew Scriptures found the shape that would eventually become the canonized Old Testament of the Catholic Church.

This period without the Temple is also when the synagogue and liturgical service & calendar took shape. Christianity inherited the liturgy and the Church should in no way shy away from seeing Herself as having a rightful claim to this God-given inheritance that come from this period of Judaism when God was guiding the Jewish people, sans-Temple.

But these things, though products from Heaven, during the period when no Temple ever stood are in no way illegitimate. And if such were the case, can you imagine the implication that would result when one would ask from where did the Church inherit such things? If not from the Jews, then the faith of the Christians cannot be valid. For the heathens did not receive their revelations from God.

No, Judaism is not based upon the Temple. It was not born from the pages of Scripture either. In fact, Judaism came first. The pages of Scripture came from an already active Judaism, a product of the Jewish people many thousands of years in operation already. The same can be said for the Temple, for it too came after the Jews were already serving God. They worshiped God before being redeemed from bondage in Egypt. And before then, my ancestors the Jews worshiped God without Temple, without Scripture, without rabbi or synagogue.

Our religion is not based on theology or creeds or doctrines. It is the expression of a people, intertwined with our culture. It is the birthright of everyone born into the tribe. One does not have to utter a creed or get expelled for not doing so. It is not based on what one believes about God. It is about who we are with God, what we do with God, where we’ve been with God, and where we are going with God. No Temple is required, no sacrifice is needed. There is no faith that there is a God, for God is real to us. You cannot put faith or have doubt in that which is real.

You cannot remain or disassociate from being Jewish anymore than you can disassociate from being human. It’s not a religion you join. It’s a tribe, a people, a culture that you are born into. You can even be atheist and Jewish–and still pray and be religiously observant. (I know that it a hard one for some to fathom, but it is true.)

Judaism is little more a “faith” than Catholicism is something that can be found in one’s DNA. It can’t. But as a Jew I have Jewish DNA markers. That has nothing to do with “faith.” Try all you want, there are no Catholic DNA markers. My being Jewish, however, is in my genes and I pass it on to my offspring. No Temple involved there.

You are comparing apples to mountains.
 
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I love your explanations. One additional comment: one can become Jewish in terms of religion by conversion. In that case, one is regarded equally as Jewish as those who are so by their genetic and cultural birthright.
 
Thank you.

But if I may: Duh!

I think even the Catholics on here knew I was speaking in generalities and was including Jewish conversion which makes one a member of the tribe or, as we often abreviate “MoT.”

Oy, it is so wonderful when a fellow Jew takes out his measuring stick and, because you missed the mark by just a few tiny miniscule marks, finds a great big beam of wood and beats his fellow Jew to correct him with it.

I think it was Jesus who said something about missing the point about correcting mere specks of wood in our brother’s eye while ignoring the fact that we ignore correcting the wooden beam stuck in our own. (Matthew 7:4-5) You think, I don’t know the point you brought up?

Sheesh, first day here and I’m leaving not because the Catholics are picky and judgy but because the Jews are. Typical.
 
What a surprising reaction to my little additional comment! I meant no harm; in fact I stated that I love your explanations (on this and another thread). Please toughen up since you need to on this forum as well as in life generally. And please don’t take that as a criticism either, at least not a negative one but rather a constructive one from (perhaps) an older person. Most of all, do NOT leave! We need you. Welcome to CAF.

BTW, I’m pretty sure YOU know the point I made, but others on CAF may not. I made the point for them.
 
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Not in all cases. a Gentile woman who converts to Judaism is unable to marry a Kohen, just as a Kohen cannot marry a divorced woman, reason being, both women are seen as impure due to their past.

There are a few other instances too of converts not being regarded as exactly the same as a born Jew.
 
Yes, good point. One might also view the special rules regarding Kohanim as restrictions placed on THEM because of the priestly class they derive from rather than discrimination against others.
 
I agree with you, that being Jewish is more than a religion; it is a religio-nation, meaning an ethnic nation that (usually) follows the Jewish religion.

I am a traditional Roman Catholic who was raised an Orthodox Jew. Depending on which Jews I am speaking to at the moment (and what their ultimate interest is), I am seen as either a former Jew who no longer has ANY claim to be part of the Jewish people (Am Yisrael), or a Jew who converted to another faith but remains Jewish ethnically. I find a lot of it depends on the Jew and how eager they are to claim as many Jews as possible. I’ve seen Jewish encyclopedias even claim actor Paul Newman, although his mother was a Hungarian Catholic.
 
I don’t have to measure up to anything you want me to be, meltzerboy2. I don’t have to accept your comments as appropriate or “toughen up” or accept you judgment that since I don’t like your comments I am not tough enough for “life in general.”

You are not even Catholic, and you as a non-Catholic are making judgments about me and have made me feel unwelcome.

This is my last post. Don’t attempt to make further comments about me again. You know nothing about me. All I know about you is that you have made sweeping judgments about someone you don’t know.

And CAF must not need me that much if they allow such judgmental behavior from someone to a new poster on their first day.

Good bye.
 
You’re overreacting to such an extreme it looks suspiciously like trolling. Meltzerboy has praised your comments and has added a tiny little detail.

I back him up on his suggestion that you reduce your sensitiveness or life will be tough for you
 
Only via God’s grace can we keep the Commandments in their entirety.

Grace is found in the Sacraments of the RCC, but the Sacraments are not the only place grace is found.
 
IMO, you’re overreacting to Meltzerboy, who wrote nothing critical or judgmental about you personally or what you wrote. In fact he praised your post!

Please reconsider and stay. You seem very knowledgeable and your contributions are welcome on CAF.
 
AnnetteJoan said:
Christ was the fulfillment of the Torah. He even said so.
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Respectfully Opinion only. Christ the Messiah, did he not come to >fulfill< the Prophecies>> given and Spoken about HIM, by the Prophets?
In Christ time there were many going around stating and claiming they were the Messiah, were there not?
Many who were claiming,calling themselves the Messiah, were brought before the Sanhedrin Jerusalem Council, why?
Test all Spirits?
How was the Sanhedrin Counsel able to know in Jesus times, those who were going around claiming they were the Messiah or were not the Messiah?
Did the Sanhedrin Counsel not know The True Messiah had to fulfill >>the Prophecies Spoken of Him, by the Prophets?
Jesus did he not preach, teach, repeat and heavily quote from the Prophets etc in OT?
Jesus does he not repeat the Laws of Moses which ones?>> Ten Commandments and a way of Life for all to live by>>The Sermon on the Mount?
Did Jesus not state>>Do not think I have come to change not one jot or tittle?
Not till Heaven and Earth no longer exist the Laws remain?
His whole teaching, preaching and when asked> What must I do to enter the Kingdom?
Was His answer > obey the Commandments?
The Messiah had to fulfill the Prophecies Spoken of Him, that were given by the Prophets, did He not?
Does HE expect us to fulfill the Laws>Ten Commandments and to live our daily lives >>in the Way of the Sermon of the Mount in serving Him and our fellow Human Beings, our Neighbours?
Has this Prophecy Spoken by the Prophets been >Fulfilled> come to pass yet today>> Jeremiah 31-31-35?
And how will we know when this Prophecy Of Jeremiah 31:31-35 has been >>Fulfilled?
Thanks Peace 🙂
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It’s unfortunate that you are leaving. You have so much to offer.
Meltzerboy is one of the nicest and kindest people here, though, and if you find yourself offended at his posts, then, yes, CAF will not be a good fit.

I wish you well, and will miss what you certainly have to offer us.
 
Thank you, AngelaMarie, for your kind words and support. Thanks as well to TigerLily and Curious. But if the poster is who I think he may be, I know why he is so touchy and angry, and he can’t really be blamed for his erratic behavior. How little we know what others may be going through.
 
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