How is it not "birth control" if a couple uses timing and temp to prevent conception?

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THP said:
Because of what you do with that knowledge…
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sw85 has provided a pretty clear explanation…numerous times in this thread…
sw85 said:
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There is nothing wrong with acting in such a way as to reduce the possibility of conception provided you have a good reason for doing so, and provided you do so in a manner consistent with the natural end of the sexual faculty…
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THP said:
Of course, as I’ve learned reading these threads, the Church doesn’t have a problem with this line of reasoning… What the Church really cares about is that… I think that is a little odd but so be it.
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The important thing to remember is that what the Church thinks and cares about are the Truths of God. You would do well to change you words “the Church” to “God” so that you can recall that it is God who sets the laws; and the Church is here to lead us to God.

You are free to think it odd or confusing…nothing wrong with that. You are also free to disagree. You are even free to reject that Truth. But that does not change the Truth.

And because many things can be confusing to us, who do not have the capacity to understand God, God has done us the great justice of freeing us from the burden of trying to interpret these things by giving us the Church to teach us:
Bookcat said:
To give a summary in a few sentences.

Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI

497. When is it moral to regulate births?

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

498. What are immoral means of birth control?

2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
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THP said:
The only reason to use NFP is to ensure you can have sex without getting pregnant.
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Actually, NFP was developed to help infertile couples achieve conception. It continues to be used today very effectively for that purpose.
 
The best thing to do is pray on it and meet with a spiritual advisor, priest, etc and discuss.

My wife and I use NFP. We are both 20 years old, go to school full time, and work full time at mediocre jobs. A child would be a blessing, but would bring a great amount of stress into all of our lives. The end of my school career is in about two years, at that point, we will be fully open to children. We both agree we would be able to give that child a much better life at that point, being able to give it more time than we would be able to now.

We need to talk to a priest about this, that’s for sure. I do confess it as a sin as I feel as though we aren’t being fully open to life.

My wife’s parents are both NFP teachers so we know the ins and outs of it.
 
THP said:
The only reason to use NFP is to ensure you can have sex without getting pregnant.
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The only reason to use artificial birth control is to have sex without getting pregnant. With ABC, you can have sex on days you know you are fertile while greatly limiting your risk.

NFP, on the other hand, is not so much about having sex as about not having sex. You use it to avoid sex at fertile times. There is nothing about NFP that requires having sex during non-fertile times.
 
Incomplete said:
There is nothing about NFP that requires having sex during non-fertile times.
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Of course not and most do not have sex every day they are infertile. But they do enjoy the freedom of being able to do so and that is not wrong.
 
sw85 said:
What is done, we just established, is not sinful. The three nonsinful acts committed together cannot add up to a sin. It is an ontological impossibility.
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I was simply trying to explain why some would conclude that NFP could be sinful. I suppose I should have been more clear. I read on another thread that it would be sinful to marry someone because they are infertile. I think some would extrapolate that line of reasoning to it being sinful to have sex with your wife because she is infertile at that time of the cycle.
 
THP said:
I was simply trying to explain why some would conclude that NFP could be sinful. I suppose I should have been more clear. I read on another thread that it would be sinful to marry someone because they are infertile. I think some would extrapolate that line of reasoning to it being sinful to have sex with your wife because she is infertile at that time of the cycle.
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Yeah, that’s a whole different topic altogether. In one, there is the issue of permanent sterility. Since the primary natural end of marriage is procreation, a person who is knowingly permanently sterile (prior to marriage) could not get married. (To my understanding…someone correct me if I have this wrong. ) Completely different topic.

What we are talking about with NFP is a natural period of infertility. God designed the woman with this natural infertile period, so there is nothing unnatural about making use of the marital union during this time as long as the act is ordered to nature.
 
ahs said:
Yeah, that’s a whole different topic altogether. In one, there is the issue of permanent sterility. Since the primary natural end of marriage is procreation, a person who is knowingly permanently sterile (prior to marriage) could not get married. (To my understanding…someone correct me if I have this wrong. ) Completely different topic.
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Not quite right:
Its the disability to engage in sexual relations that makes it impossible, not sterility.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=102504
 
THP said:
I was simply trying to explain why some would conclude that NFP could be sinful. I suppose I should have been more clear. I read on another thread that it would be sinful to marry someone because they are infertile. I think some would extrapolate that line of reasoning to it being sinful to have sex with your wife because she is infertile at that time of the cycle.
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It’s probably true that it would be a sin to marry someone simply because they’re infertile and you could have sex with them forever without consequence. Probably. But that never happens, I wouldn’t imagine. Who would subject themselves to marriage SOLELY for sex?

Likewise, you’re not having sex with your wife BECAUSE she is infertile. You would be having sex with your wife out of love and a desire for erotic union, and simply timing it such that she would happen to be infertile.
 
Another way to look at this:

God is love. In love he created us all, and the whole universe, freely out of his own goodness and generosity. We are made ‘in his image’, intended to have this same freely generous nature. (Love God and love one another, is his greatest command.) The Father’s love begat the Son, and his love for the Son and the Son’s for the Father issued forth in the Spirit. Though they are not created, the existence of the Trinity is founded on this loving generosity, which is indeed their inner life. (God is love.)

We are made in his image. God loves a cheerful giver. When he created other things, he “saw that they were good”. After he created man, he then looked on all he created and saw it was “very good”. Man – Adam and Eve – were such a great good, that it was God’s first command, his loving will, that they should ‘be fruitful and multiply’, to fill the earth with this goodness which is the human being.

St. Paul says that marriage-- the union of man and woman that it entails-- is a ‘great mystery’, like Christ’s love for the church.

We are called to be like God. God is love. All this bickering in this thread about what is and is not allowed, misses the point that children are the greatest natural gift God could bestow on anyone. When we say we don’t want more children, there had better be a grave reason (“serious” “just”, whatever) for such a statement. And when we commit an act of intercourse using contraception, we are ignoring the fact that God is offering with the same hand two great gifts. We are in effect saying to God, “thanks for the gift of pleasure, but take your gift of a child and shove it.”

My 2 cents.
 
THP said:
Absolutely. But that is not what this discussion is about.
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Really? This thread has taken so many tangents, that little being discussed here has anything to do with the original post. But thanks for being the moderator.👍

I was correcting an incorrect statement made by a previous poster.
 
prstoessel said:
Really? This thread has taken so many tangents, that little being discussed here has anything to do with the original post. But thanks for being the moderator.👍

I was correcting an incorrect statement made by a previous poster.
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You’re welcome. This entire thread has been about whether NFP can be sinful and its comparison with ABC. No one has been talking about trying to become pregnant. I was just trying to stay on task. If sentences have too many caveats then they become too cumbersome to read.
 
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