How is mary a virgin?

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doulos1:
Has it escaped your mind that the Bible no where says Joseph had a “first wife.” You can lay out conjecture all you want.
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Take your own words.
Where Holy Scripture states that Jesus is son of Mary, Holy Scripture does not say anyone else was son of that same Mary.
doulos1,
I have two questions for you. (bolded)

In the Book of Genesis, Joseph has eleven brothers. (His father had 12 sons.) Then they must have the same mother to be brothers?

Genesis 42:7-13
*
And Joseph saw his brethren, and he knew them, but made himself strange unto them, and spake roughly unto them; and he said unto them, Whence come ye? And they said, From the land of Canaan to buy food.
And Joseph knew his brethren, but they knew not him.
And Joseph remembered the dreams which he dreamed of them, and said unto them, Ye are spies; to see the nakedness of the land ye are come.

And they said unto him, Nay, my lord, but to buy food are thy servants come.
We are all one man’s sons; we are true men, thy servants are no spies.

And he said unto them, Nay, but to see the nakedness of the land ye are come.

And they said, Thy servants are twelve brethren, the sons of one man in the land of Canaan; and, behold, the youngest is this day with our father, and one is not.*
**Are Abram and Lot:
uncle and nephew (Genesis 14:12),
or brothers (Genesis 14:14)? **
 
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VociMike:
This thread may be winding down, but I wanted to put my 2c in. To me one of the strongest confirmations that the Church teaches correctly about Mary’s ever-virginity is the answer to a simple question. When is it ever right for a woman to bear the children of two different fathers? Death of the first father is one case. Abandonment by the first father may be another. So then we ask:
  1. Did God die after Jesus was born?
  2. Did God abandon Mary after Jesus was born?
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pnewton:
Being a virgin does not make one a goddess. Mary is not a goddess. You need to read your own scripture and not elevate her to that status.
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i’m pretty sure that catholics pray to mary. if you don’t i take back everything i said. if you do, you elevate her to a god like status.
 
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bloodwater:
i’m pretty sure that catholics pray to mary. if you don’t i take back everything i said. if you do, you elevate her to a god like status.
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When you ask other to pray for you do you elevate them to a god like status?

Peace
 
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bloodwater:
i’m pretty sure that catholics pray to mary. if you don’t i take back everything i said. if you do, you elevate her to a god like status.
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So you simply reject an ancient and legitimate meaning ot the word “pray”? You arbitrarily limit its application to objects of worship? Why would you do that, and by what authority?
 
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Tom:
Doulos, I understand your shock at hearing the truth, I only ask you give the Holy Spirit the time necessary to work within you, to come to the truth. Seek and ye shall find. Never stop seeking, the more you seek the closer to the Catholic Church you will come. Search history to find the Church He established. May the peace and love of our Lord. Jesus the Christ be with you, and may the Holy Spirit of God guide you,
Tom
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This is just a waste of breath. The guy does not read anyhting psoted on the topic that has substantive claims, nor does he back his position was proof when people request where he is comgin from. There are some people on here just to sound off, not to discuss anything…oh let’s find a Catholic forum and saying something about Mary’s virginity for fun to see the reaction.

In regards to mary’s virginity, and forgive me if I seem blashpemous, I don’t think ti is a big deal. Logically, the Bible implies that she remained a virgin, but I don’t see virginity in itself as being that special a virtue, when all women remained so before marriage.

I don’t see why people choose to harp on it when making statements to say why Mary does not deserve honor. She raised the Son of God, for goodness sake. How can there be a more honorable vocation that that? And the commandments say honor your parents. And we are commanded to take Jesus as an example, and he naturally obeyed the commandments (since he was without sin) which would lead us to honoring Mary. Virginity has nothing to do with our obligations to her.
 
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bloodwater:
i’m pretty sure that catholics pray to mary. if you don’t i take back everything i said. if you do, you elevate her to a god like status.
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Let’s look at the Hail Mary to see just how unScriptural it really is.

“Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28)
“Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.” (Luke 1:42)
Holy Mary, mother of God (Luke 1:43) pray for us sinner, now and at the hour of our death. (A simple intercessory pray encouraged by St. Paul 1 Cor 14:13, 2 Cor 9:14, 2 Cor 13:9, Eph 6:18, Col 1:3, Col 1:9, Col 4:3, 1 Thess 5:25, 2 Thess 3:1. There are more, but I think these are sufficient to prove my point.)

So, this demonic “prayer” we say to Mary is a totally scriptural request to Jesus’ mother to pray for us. Since the host at the wedding of Cana thought it appropriate to ask Mary to intercede, why isn’t it okay for us?
 
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serendipity:
This is just a waste of breath. The guy does not read anyhting psoted on the topic that has substantive claims, nor does he back his position was proof when people request where he is comgin from. There are some people on here just to sound off, not to discuss anything…oh let’s find a Catholic forum and saying something about Mary’s virginity for fun to see the reaction.

In regards to mary’s virginity, and forgive me if I seem blashpemous, I don’t think ti is a big deal. Logically, the Bible implies that she remained a virgin, but I don’t see virginity in itself as being that special a virtue, when all women remained so before marriage.

I don’t see why people choose to harp on it when making statements to say why Mary does not deserve honor. She raised the Son of God, for goodness sake. How can there be a more honorable vocation that that? And the commandments say honor your parents. And we are commanded to take Jesus as an example, and he naturally obeyed the commandments (since he was without sin) which would lead us to honoring Mary. Virginity has nothing to do with our obligations to her.
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Serendipity,

you make a good point here, because the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is not for the sake of Mary at all. The purpose of the doctrine is for those who seek the Truth to know that Jesus was not the bastard son of a Roman soldier as claimed by the Jews.
If Mary had other children then the paternity of Jesus could be easily questioned.

All of your other points are quite correct. The Law says: Honour your Father and your mother. Which mother?

Maggie
 
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MaggieOH:
you make a good point here, because the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is not for the sake of Mary at all. The purpose of the doctrine is for those who seek the Truth to know that Jesus was not the bastard son of a Roman soldier as claimed by the Jews.
Maggie
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The thing that disturbs me about this thread, is that the questions concering Mary’s virginity are not being asked because people doubt who Jesus is, but they make statements which are refuted, but instead of reading the refutations and offering logical rebuttals with logic, they offer insults. It is not sincere questioning that bothers me, because faith is partically a gift form God, but what is annoying on these topics, is that it does not seem that those questioning Mary’s virgnity (or any aspect of Mary, since she is often their target) even read the answers to the questions they ask.

At least it looks like one of them has been suspended, but on this board it seems that it is easy for the suspended to return under another name.
 
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serendipity:
The thing that disturbs me about this thread, is that the questions concering Mary’s virginity are not being asked because people doubt who Jesus is, but they make statements which are refuted, but instead of reading the refutations and offering logical rebuttals with logic, they offer insults. It is not sincere questioning that bothers me, because faith is partically a gift form God, but what is annoying on these topics, is that it does not seem that those questioning Mary’s virgnity (or any aspect of Mary, since she is often their target) even read the answers to the questions they ask.

At least it looks like one of them has been suspended, but on this board it seems that it is easy for the suspended to return under another name.
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I agree serendipity, if someone talked about their biological mom the way they speak of Mary some times it would come to blows.What really gets me is in the commandments honor thy mother and father is there!Jesus who is without sin disregarded her and thought nothing of her:mad: That would be sin!So an insult to Jesus as well as Mary.
 
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cornerstone:
what would be the purpose of the Virginity of Mary after Jesus came to this world?
would the fact that Mary had sons after Jesus take away anything from Jesus work on the cross?
answer this two and you would understand why i was never the will of the catholic church for the scripture to reach our hands.
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Cornerstone, your second question is offtopic and will not be answered on this thread. If you want an answer then go start your own thread.

MaggieOH
 
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serendipity:
The thing that disturbs me about this thread, is that the questions concering Mary’s virginity are not being asked because people doubt who Jesus is, but they make statements which are refuted, but instead of reading the refutations and offering logical rebuttals with logic, they offer insults. It is not sincere questioning that bothers me, because faith is partically a gift form God, but what is annoying on these topics, is that it does not seem that those questioning Mary’s virgnity (or any aspect of Mary, since she is often their target) even read the answers to the questions they ask.

At least it looks like one of them has been suspended, but on this board it seems that it is easy for the suspended to return under another name.
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Serendipity what you say is true. Yes one of them has been suspended and I already suspect that he is here under dual names. The person who started the thread did not even bother to read the posts yet proclaimed that we failed to respond adequately. I will wager that he/she did not look up one of the references provided by us. That is what is so irksome about these people.

MaggieOH
(who was condemned to hell for buying a cup of coffee on a Sunday)
 
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bloodwater:
if you do, you elevate her to a god like status.
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???

What a jump in logic! When one prays to the court, he offers a petition, he does not deify the judge. (although I am sure that some lawyers mat think so) If the term confuses you, then rest assured, we understand Mary is not divine.

If you have a problem with the idea that she might be aware of our prayers, I refer you to Revelation where the prayers of the saints are heard by those around the throne.

Our divergence on this and other topics illustrate so well why Jesus needed to establish an authoritative structure to His church. My Mariology exists only because of my ecclesiology.
 
If you can get your hands on “The messages of merciful Love” as revealed to Carmela Carabelli you will find words of Jesus on this subject page 276.
The book has an Imprimatur, by Pietro Santoro–Bishop of Termoli.
ISBN: 1 872276 10 5

There are some online links, but all of the book online I can’t find, this link is part of the book.
digilander.libero.it/ma33n/mat/stamp1.htm
 
For 1500 plus years, Christians “prayed” for each other and to each other. Paul prayed for the congregations to whom he addressed his epistles, that they remain strong in faith. He prayed to God, and he prayed to individuals personally, such as Timothy. Prayer was a way of speaking to a person. It was not reserved strictly to the Almighty God.

Suddenly about 500 years ago, a select group of people, already hot in anti-clericalism, decided that they knew better than anyone else what “prayer” should be. While the great Shakespeare was still using the word “prayer” in his plays with the meaning that it had had for millennia, these people decided to narrow the meaning into a strict interpretation of “petition to God alone”, just as they decided to narrow the equally long-held belief in transsubstantiation of bread and wine into the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus into a mere “symbol”.

These “new” protesting teachings, throwing over not just the older teachings of great doctors and theologians but the teachings of Christ Jesus Himself, have become stumbling blocks to many decent, honorable, but sadly misguided people who are literally “narrowing themselves out” of the plainly taught path of salvation, IMO.

Mary is a “big deal” to us Catholics not because we equate her with God, or put her “above” God, but because the unfortunate souls who cannot see that she is who she is strictly and solely because of God, points the way to God alone, and, as the vessel which brought Jesus to the world, likewise is a vessel bringing the world not to her, but to Jesus, are not content with ignoring her. . .but must slander, deride, stigmatize, and calumnate her. . .the Mother of God. . .and this behavior is an affront to God and a scandal and a sorrow.
 
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doulos1:
So the Pope has more authority that Paul who tells us that the bishop must be the husband of one wife? 1Tim. 3:2? I think that he does not. So I have a choice, I can believe Paul or the Pope, hmmmm let me see, I chose Paul (and God through him).

And it is because your church forces us to choose that it is evidently anti-christian.
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Please, the command is that bishops must be the husband of ONLY one wife. This is not a command to that they should be married but rather if they choose to marry that it can ONLY be to ONE wife.

God Bless,
RS
 
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rschermer2:
Please, the command is that bishops must be the husband of ONLY one wife. This is not a command to that they should be married but rather if they choose to marry that it can ONLY be to ONE wife.

God Bless,
RS
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This is a good point and dispenses with the off-topic question of bishops and marriage. It had nothing to do with Mary

🙂

Maggie
 
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