How is the Churh Going to Survive without more Priests?

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LeahInancsi

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Bascially, the title of this thread is my entire question.

My priest is so busy he does not have time to devote to his parishioners. He and I have discussed the over the past couple days. It will be a real hardship for him make time for me on an individual basis. Our second priest, is the vocations director for his order and flies throughout the country during the week and only appears at my parish on Saturday or Sunday, but never both.

I desperately need counceling and my parish his no deacons. Also, there are no Psyciatrists within driving distance. Currently, leaving the Church is my first option because that would be one less thing to worry about. I though by joining, it might give me some sense of wellbeing, but that has not been the case.
 
If we had lay people who could run the business end of a parish, the priest would be free to be more pastoral.

The sacraments are more important than office work.
 
OP,

The priest/church is not a substitute for mental health counseling if that is what a person needs. There are some lay people who are spiritual directors, but they are also not counselors. There are some lay people who are Catholic counselors/therapists, but they do usually charge for services like any other therapist.

I don’t want to sound harsh, but if you are wanting to leave the church merely because you cannot get as much individual attention as you would like from your priests then it sounds more like your own individual faith crisis than the church’s problem due to a shortage of priests. Even in a small parish where the ratio of priest to parishioner is fairly low, they are not our personal therapist. They may be able to provide more spiritual direction, but that is not the same thing at all.

I know that it may be very frustrating that you cannot get the support that you need from your priest, but it sounds like what you want could not be provided no matter how much time he had since he is not a psychiatrist or psychologist. I used to be Baptist and our pastor and his assistant did not provide mental health type counseling either. They could talk with someone in crisis a few times and offer info of other places the person could get long term help.

What the priests can do is make sure that we get the sacraments and that other resources are available for our other needs. There are services available through Catholic Charities or through the diocese that an individual priest or even a whole parish will not be able to offer to someone. I suggest checking on these things and if your crisis is not faith-related, then there might be low cost counseling available through other sources.

Additionally, if you are looking for a support system within the church, you will be more likely to find that by getting involved in smaller groups at your parish such as a women’s fellowship or Bible study or young married group or whatever might be relevant to your stage of life.

I get support in my life spiritually and otherwise on a personal level through my relationships that I built in various parish groups. There are retreats that can give us a boost in our faith life and more peace in general.

There are spiritual renewal programs such as Christ Renews His Parish that provide an opportunity to get close with a smaller group of women and to have the group become a support team within our local parish. We went through an intial retreat and then 6 months of spiritual formation together. We then gave the next retreat to another group of women. This is my intimate group within my huge parish of more than 23,000 people!

These are the women who provided meals for me after my surgery. We are there for each other when a loved one is ill or dies. These are the women who we can call with the questions we are embarassed to ask someone else. We also have baby showers and Bible study and just great friendship with each other that is built on the solid base of our shared faith. Maybe something like this would be of help to you even if you do find a counselor.

I will pray for you to receive the help and support and love that you need to grow in faith and to gain peace in your life!

Your sister in Christ
 
Good question.

Roman Catholicism is a religious heavily focussed on priests and the sacraments. The laity can run the parish, help staff the various groups, administer communion, perform marriages and baptisms --does one have to be a deacon to do this?–but Mass and Last Rites, I believe, require a priest. The strain on the priesthood marginalizes them in their own parishes. Other denominations have as many ministers as their budget will allow, which means that there is a lot of (name removed by moderator)ut, guidance and leadership around.

Stay tuned.
 
…"…on this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"…rest assured that The Lord will guard His Church and she will prevail no matter what should happen. For sure there is more room for deacons and the laity to undertake much more than at present and if it proves necessary doubtless it will come into being. Blessings - Barb:)
 
jc-servant,

Where do I find these people around the parish who are able to help the older lay people who after RCIA have been dropped in to the very lost and lonely pool of the Church. I have really become gealous o the Craddle Catholics who have had this direction all thier lives.

Also, I’m not looking to leave the church. I’d just like to know what is expected of me on a day to day basis. The Catholic church is so great, but I have no clue where my place is. I’m totally lost.
 
In addition, jc-servant,

What is the point of me going to church at all if the priest owes me nothing. I can pray, worship and mail my contribution check all from home. I have three bookcases of Bible and books that will keep my soul enriched.
 
LeahInancsi said:
In addition, jc-servant,

What is the point of me going to church at all if the priest owes me nothing. I can pray, worship and mail my contribution check all from home. I have three bookcases of Bible and books that will keep my soul enriched.
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We go to Mass to worship God as a community of believers. And in receiving Jesus we become one with Him. Can’t do that at home.

The priest, unfortunatly, cannot devote all his time to individual parishioners. There are some parishioners who think the priest is there to be at their beck and call…and they simply cannot. One of the first things learned in courses on Pastoral Counseling, which all seminarians, deacons, and many lay people take, is that if a person comes to you with some issue beyond what you can handle, advise them to see a therapist or other health professional. That is how they can best serve you. If you just want someone to listen to you, you don’t need the priest. Many parishes have support groups or small Christian communities where people can go to to talk about their faith or other issues in the their life. (we have a widows and widowers group, a young mother’s group, a “golden years” group). If your parish has a pasrish social ministry office they often can help with many issues. If it is a spiritual issue perhaps the priest can recommend a spiritual director or suggest a reatreat.

DOn’t leave the Church because the priest does not have time for you. Priests have an entire parish of people to minister to , plus administrative duties and often diocesan duties as well.

How often do you want to see your pastor? Are you being bothersome? That may seem harsh but we have several people like that in our parish and the priests often try to hold them off or pass them off to someone who can better meet their needs.
 
as She did in missionary days when one or two priests would serve thousands of square miles and convert thousands of people, and build dozens of churches, train lay catechists, and visit regularly sometimes once a year or less to confer the sacraments. In some places, like China, Catholics survived worshipping and reading the bible in house churches for hundreds of years before a priest arrived again.

What the Church needs to do, the Church will do, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

What will have to change is the service mentality of many Catholics who expect a drive-through church and have a gimme spirituality rather than a sacrifical spirituality.

Most of the daily care and concern, and the response in times of crisis and special needs which parishioners need and have the right to expect, outside the sacraments themselves, should come from their fellow parishioners, guided and facilitated by the pastor and pastoral staff, but not administered solely by paid employees.

It would be a very rare priest or deacon who is trained and licensed to provide psychological or psychiatric counselling. However every diocese has an offfice of Catholic Charities and a Family Life Office, which either employs or makes referrals to such professionals.
 
LeahInancsi said:
jc-servant,

Where do I find these people around the parish who are able to help the older lay people who after RCIA have been dropped in to the very lost and lonely pool of the Church. I have really become gealous o the Craddle Catholics who have had this direction all thier lives.

Also, I’m not looking to leave the church. I’d just like to know what is expected of me on a day to day basis. The Catholic church is so great, but I have no clue where my place is. I’m totally lost.
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one suggestion for your first paragraph, a very real need in most parishes, is to start such a group, as we have done recently in our parish, lead by a couple of energetic lay people, who are working with the pastoral staff, nursing home and hospital chaplains and families to identified parishioners who need visits, communion and spiritual comfort (and to schedule confession and anointing when the priest is needed) but also to help with other needs such as medicare forms, or just to talk.

What is expected of all of us on a daily basis is first prayer, then stewardship or sacrificial giving of the product of our work which involves both charity and fasting or giving up, and giving our time to help our fellow parishioners, the Church and God’s poor. Sadly in many parishes the first thing evident is the lack of any organized service or stewardship, so the person who is gifted with perception of that need is called to at least raise awareness and exert some leadership to help meet that need.
 
Your question is one that I have asked and prayed over many times–also looking at the other direction; “How as a priest can I give the best service to the people I am asked to serve and lead in the faith?”
Some of the answers are contained in the above replies; i.e. more lay involvement doing many of the tasks that were asked of the priest when I entered the seminary.
Some of the answer is actually a black mark against the church expecially in areas of the world where a priest is expected to serve many parishes (one that I visited in Guatamaula–2 priests had 39 churches scattered through the mountain villages to reach out to. If they were to get to each one once a month was unusual.)
The church will continue–that I deeply believe. After all the church is the work of God. And I do believe that God will somehow take care of the church. But this care is/(may be) asking us to make some real changes that at the present time many of the leaders and stalwarts of the church are not even willing to consider. What the changes will be, only the future can tell for sure.
I look back at the Pauline model and how he set up communities of faith in the areas where he worked as a missionary. He, before he would leave an area, would appoint leaders who later became known as priests. Where some of these women?–I believe that there is enough evidence to give a definite yes to this question. (I know, I disagree with the church on this, but it is my belief.)
We have made some token small steps toward imitating this model with the restoration of the permanent diaconate. Also more and more tasks are being done by lay people of faith–thus letting the priest be there for the sacramental ministry and preaching tasks.
Hope and Faith are the virtues that can greatly help us as we look to the future. But imagination and change will also be demanded as the church continues to live, evolve and serve all the people of God.
 
Sorry, the church is in collapse, and even 20 years of an orthodox JP2 couldn’t turn it around.

Think, maybe the catholic church is not the truith. You have to die to self to consider that. But it can be so liberating.
 
From some perspectives, “in collapse”, maybe…but “collapsed” - never! “Thou art Peter The Rock and on this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” We have gone through some pretty terrible times in our 2000 odd year history, but we prevail.
maybe the catholic church is not the truith. You have to die to self to consider that.
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:confused: ???
…or is it convenient to self for some reason?:o…and please excuse me if I have misunderstood you…and if so, can you explain further the above comments please as I am unable to understand.

Our parish only has a part time priest for Mass on Sunday (no weekday Masses any more) and he lives a fair way from our parish and is a teacher of Scripture at a Catholic University and almost always absent for some reason or other, usually overseas somewhere on some Scripture mission. Our parish is run really by our married deacon. I live in South Australia and our priest shortage is dire. Interestingly I was talking to a priest the other day and he says the more The Archbishop needs to make adjustments in parishes due to a dreadful shortage of priests, the more most lay people are up in arms about it, failing to accept that changes and adjustments are the Archbishop’s only ‘tools’ due to our shortage of priests.
I dont think The Church is ‘in collapse’, *rather the face of The Church is changing *due largely to shortage of priests. For three Sundays we had a Ecumenical Service and no Mass as the only priest available was in hospital having a major operation. People were furious about this, which to me is plain ridiculous. I have even heard it said that The Church is no longer the Catholic Church…and again ridiculous as due to our priest shortage we simply HAVE TO CHANGE.
Since I dont have a vehicle with Masses being almost impossible to get to at times, even on Sunday, I dont feel in the least bit guilty about not getting to Mass on a Sunday. Regretful perhaps, but never guilty. If people do not understand, I am confident that The Lord does. I have tried without success to get a lift regularly on a Sunday.

Re the question posed for this thread: : How is the Churh Going to Survive without more Priests? …we will survive that is guaranteed, but the face of The Church may change and quite dramatically and this I think is what people are finding hard…the changes necessary. It just may be that The Lord has not been granting us priestly vocations in order to trigger change in The Church and extended duties of deacons and the laity is one ‘tool’ or method that could be used to compensate for priest shortages. Rules and Regulations and even theological interpretations just may change - not for the sake of change but new insights into Scripture may unfold. Not saying they will…but “might”.

Blessings - Barb:)
 
I take serious issue with some “personal” beliefs expressed on this board. The evidence of women priest is not there thay may have been “diaconesses” but not priests. And to top that off they were NOT ordained. You have to read the early church fathers to get a better understanding of this issue…not my goal.

Second. If the Church were in Collapse, I wouldn’t be hear, because I’ve returned after a 17 year exile of my own. God has corrected this in my life and left as 1 and came back as 5. I have one son considering the priesthood and serves at mass every chance he gets. I will PM you on something.

If you are needing spiritual guidance, that is a long historical concern. Turn on EWTN, get a book called “Catholicism for Dummies”. Read read read. Most of all, pray pray pray. There are so many programs that you’d be amazed. And no, our RCIA program consists of mostly CONVERTS & REVERTS. If you are in RCIA. Let us know your questions. The priest is the best, but not always the best person to turn to for guidance. Afterall it was the poor example of many priests in my youth that turned me so against the Catholic faith for so long. I used to be a seminarian and deeply regret never following through to the priesthood. I truly believe though that God opened another door for me. But He probabaly already knew I would do what I did. Long story.

However, all is not failed. I am looking into the diaconate. I personally believe that the Bishops should open to door wider for more deacons. The laity need married men in good standing with the church who have not only transformed lives but transformed families. My wife, a convert, dauaghter of a Protestant Bishop, sister of 2 Protestant Ministers. I’d elaborate, but I’ve already been asked if I’d consider writing a book on my experiences. Not sure what I’ll do yet…because I don’t want to scandalize anyone. Wife fears being discovered as Catholic by her very fundamental eveangelical large family. But she’s getting help on that through our pastor and another priest plus some good solid professional counseling. Needed because of the major loss of identy in conversion. She sounded like she wanted to bail too. But the real presence in the Eucharist and confession are absolutely wonderful just to start. I’d suggest spending time in adoration of the Blessed Sacrament.

I’ll PM you the rest.
 
I take serious issue with some “personal” beliefs expressed on this board. The evidence of women priest is not there thay may have been “diaconesses” but not priests. And to top that off they were NOT ordained. You have to read the early church fathers to get a better understanding of this issue…not my goal.
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Not to sure to whom the above comments are directed. For myself, The Church has spoken very clearly on the issue and she states for all time - and that is absolutely good enough for me. No women priests, male only. Anyway, personally I think going to confession to a female would cause me to shudder:D (lol!)…Blessings - Barb:)
 
rien said:
Sorry, the church is in collapse, and even 20 years of an orthodox JP2 couldn’t turn it around.

Think, maybe the catholic church is not the truith. You have to die to self to consider that. But it can be so liberating.
Click to expand...
and maybe Jesus lied.
if Jesus lied about being with us to the end of the age, about sending the Holy Spirit to guide and protect the Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against her, then he lied about everything. That is the only conclusion.
Either the Church will prevail and emerge from a period of trial, darkness and even persecuation, stronger than ever as she has throughout history, or Jesus lied and there is no visible Church on earth.

take it or leave it.

you cannot make a global prediction about the Church based on demographic of clergy in Western, secularized materialist societies where even local churches have succumbed to the corrupt culture, because you are ignoring the reality of Church in the rest of the world. No panico.
 
puzzleannie said:
and maybe Jesus lied.
if Jesus lied about being with us to the end of the age, about sending the Holy Spirit to guide and protect the Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against her, then he lied about everything. That is the only conclusion.
Either the Church will prevail and emerge from a period of trial, darkness and even persecuation, stronger than ever as she has throughout history, or Jesus lied and there is no visible Church on earth.

take it or leave it.

you cannot make a global prediction about the Church based on demographic of clergy in Western, secularized materialist societies where even local churches have succumbed to the corrupt culture, because you are ignoring the reality of Church in the rest of the world. No panico.
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This is an excellent point. The Church is universal. Europe, North America and Australia do not represent the whole of the Church. Those areas may become the new missionary lands and priests will be sent from other areas where vocations are flourishing.

And I must say, this so-called vocations “crisis” is, in many instances, artificially contrived by people wishing to push an agenda of one type or another. The book “Goodbye Good Men” is instructive in this regard. Recommended Lenten reading.
 
Barbara, I am true to the Majesterium. You need not worry about me speaking against the teachings of the Church. I though I read someone saying otherwise here. Diaconesses were real, however, they were not true decons. They were not ordained. I have issues about women beging used like that though. The title from what I’ve read was an honor title. In the Eastern Orthodox Church the wife of a Deacon is refered to as a diaconanesse. I forget what the Priest’s wife is called without looking it up again. But my real point is that it is possible one day that the Church will lift the discipline of married men being allowed to the priesthood.

Just a sideline, I have issues with women doing anything as a server around the altar because of traditions. to much to get into here would require my background. But I truly believe women are fighting for higher roles which is getting in the way of vocations to the priesthood.

PAX Christi tecum
 
vocatio said:
Barbara, I am true to the Majesterium. You need not worry about me speaking against the teachings of the Church. I though I read someone saying otherwise here. Diaconesses were real, however, they were not true decons. They were not ordained. I have issues about women beging used like that though. The title from what I’ve read was an honor title. In the Eastern Orthodox Church the wife of a Deacon is refered to as a diaconanesse. I forget what the Priest’s wife is called without looking it up again. But my real point is that it is possible one day that the Church will lift the discipline of married men being allowed to the priesthood.

Just a sideline, I have issues with women doing anything as a server around the altar because of traditions. to much to get into here would require my background. But I truly believe women are fighting for higher roles which is getting in the way of vocations to the priesthood.

PAX Christi tecum
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Thank you for the above. I think probably too one day the priesthood will be open to both married and single men…women priests are a definite and very clear negative from The Church.
I remain unsure about why we are lacking vocations to the priesthood - The Church, I think, does need to ask if it is something about the priesthood itself and by this I mean the actual role and lifestyle…for male priests only!!!😃
Obviously if the shortage continues with many priests soon to retire, changes have to be made and this I think, should they prove necessary, will change the face of The Church…but not with women priests…Blessings - Barb:)
 
Remember when Pope JPII initiated the “two lungs” east and west? I truly believe the Spirit is guiding the Church to married men seeking the priesthood. However, if the Pope ever allows women at all to be ordained, I will immediately pull my registration and transfer to the Eastern Orthodox because this would be a sign to me that the Roman Catholic rumors are true as put forth by the Eastern Church. You see, the Majesterium does not have the authority to change Sacred Tradition. This is a Sacred Tradition thing, not a little tradition thing. However, married men becomming priests is a discipline of the western Catholic rite and if you google it from an easter Catholic perspective you’ll see the real history behind the whys.

The problem anyway is not in the priesthood but the lack of Catholics transoforming to the Church’s teachings. The demestic church is the small ecclesial community recognized by the Church. From the domestic church is born vocations. Parents are throwing out Church teaching cafateria wise.

Look more in depth on the reprocutions of the following:

birth control
fewer children
more divorces
sexual promiscuity
premarrital activity
abortions abortions abortions
etc.

The problem is not the Church but the direct disobedience of many in the Church. We have become prideful and more knowledgable about what God wants for us that God Himself. It is the effects of original sin, our concupicence is showing. There is a movement within the ranks to real back Catholics by teaching them apologetics, bible and the catechism of the Catholic Church. We have allowed ourselves to be distracted by the blessings of this life in materialism. We need to follow the way of peace, poverty.

This thread however shoud be deleted though because of p(name removed by moderator)ointing someone’s identity here.
 
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