L
- Status
yeah, right. Nice try - not falling for it.
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Lepanto
Guest
What are you doing to promote vocations?
Are you praying for them?
Are you talking to young men in your family/friends about the priesthood?
Are you praying for them?
Are you talking to young men in your family/friends about the priesthood?
V
vocatio
Guest
Lepanto,
If you question is directed to me the answer to all 3 is “YES”.
So we should all be encouraging our own children first and then other children to consider the priesthood and religious life.
For those of you wanting to CHANGE the traditions of the Church. I have to say either you never got it when you converted or you’ve never been on the Protestant side of things. Protestants lack so much that it is truly sad.
Truth is we first need sacrificial priests and religious…those that are risking their entire lives for the Church. Married men to the priesthood to serve in a clerical role for saying mass and confessions and visiting the sick would be in order, but they still have a responsibility to their families. If you had a ministerial family like mine you’d understand what I’m talking about. Our family is full of drained ministers that push away the Christians that try to overwhelm them. In fact, some of them complain about how needy so many people are. You have to love priests for being more charitable, but they do not have children sucking up the time they rightfully deserve. Married men considered to the priesthood would be okay and acceptable. in fact it is acceptable in the eastern Catholic rites even today and has been elevated to the dignity it deserves. But we are Western Catholics and the norm is celebacy. Pray also for vocations to the diaconate and the bishops to be more open to increasing the role of the diaconate in serving the community of God. Parisioners need male roll models in the clergy as well as advice from married men who successfully “manage” the family. Not the overwhelming gender role though.
If you question is directed to me the answer to all 3 is “YES”.
So we should all be encouraging our own children first and then other children to consider the priesthood and religious life.
For those of you wanting to CHANGE the traditions of the Church. I have to say either you never got it when you converted or you’ve never been on the Protestant side of things. Protestants lack so much that it is truly sad.
Truth is we first need sacrificial priests and religious…those that are risking their entire lives for the Church. Married men to the priesthood to serve in a clerical role for saying mass and confessions and visiting the sick would be in order, but they still have a responsibility to their families. If you had a ministerial family like mine you’d understand what I’m talking about. Our family is full of drained ministers that push away the Christians that try to overwhelm them. In fact, some of them complain about how needy so many people are. You have to love priests for being more charitable, but they do not have children sucking up the time they rightfully deserve. Married men considered to the priesthood would be okay and acceptable. in fact it is acceptable in the eastern Catholic rites even today and has been elevated to the dignity it deserves. But we are Western Catholics and the norm is celebacy. Pray also for vocations to the diaconate and the bishops to be more open to increasing the role of the diaconate in serving the community of God. Parisioners need male roll models in the clergy as well as advice from married men who successfully “manage” the family. Not the overwhelming gender role though.
B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
Hi again Vocatio…again I agree that the laity needs renewal
but I also think that the face of The Church not only will change but that it should change. This is only my opinion and I journey putting obedience as prime. In other words if I find something The Church has say difficult, then obedience overrides the difficulty(ies) - while I still may try to think out my difficulties. A nun who taught me used to say “a thousand difficulties cannot make one doubt” and this is very true. For myself I am far too unlearned in theology and other important factors factored into Church decisions to have a firm loud voice on such matters. I simply do not have the time to educate myself on these things, nor the money to do so. Not cheap to be Catholic
Be all that as it may, rules are never ends in themselves, rather they exist to enshrine a spirit and the spirit is my focus for myself personally rather than the letter of the law.
Blessings - Barb
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vocatio
Guest
Barb, you sound just like the elderly lady with whom I spoke today. Lack of understanding does not supercede setting aside “rules” as you put them. Rules can change if and only iff they are not part of Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition can never change. That is a fundamental in the Churhc’s teachings that most Catholics do not understand. That is the reason women are not ordained to the priesthood for one. Just because you feel like you should be something does not mean you should be allowed to be that. It would be heresy. I don’t expect you to accept that. Why would I, most Catholics don’t accept it and are in error for that misunderstanding. But the Church does not depend on our understanding, Praise God for that. If you want to be Methodist, which in essence is what you have revealed by thinking that women ordinations are acceptable.
Franciscan University has a graduate program for $500 per course in Theology. This is cheaper than a public university course in my erea. But ther are books that are basic to help. Why are so many people intent on being guilty of departing fromthe teachings of the Church, not the discipline, like married men becoming priests. Doing this would be like using a graham cracker as the host for the eucharist, illicit and invalid. There are far to many ministries that ring even more important than the priesthood in some ways. But all the roles are important. I can not be a mother as much as it would be wonderful to be one. If that were possible then there would be an acceptance of homosexual marriages. It’s an understanding that I won’t even try with someone without the background. Pick up some of Scott Hahn’s CD’s in the back of the parish church. They’re free. The donations are to help defray the cost. It’s rather inexpensive to learn theology if you look in the correct places.
You obviously have internet access, obviously you can afford the educatoin. Now whether or not you want to invest the time to learn is another issue. Your argument holds as much water as the excuse for not owning or worse not reading your bible or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Franciscan University has a graduate program for $500 per course in Theology. This is cheaper than a public university course in my erea. But ther are books that are basic to help. Why are so many people intent on being guilty of departing fromthe teachings of the Church, not the discipline, like married men becoming priests. Doing this would be like using a graham cracker as the host for the eucharist, illicit and invalid. There are far to many ministries that ring even more important than the priesthood in some ways. But all the roles are important. I can not be a mother as much as it would be wonderful to be one. If that were possible then there would be an acceptance of homosexual marriages. It’s an understanding that I won’t even try with someone without the background. Pick up some of Scott Hahn’s CD’s in the back of the parish church. They’re free. The donations are to help defray the cost. It’s rather inexpensive to learn theology if you look in the correct places.
You obviously have internet access, obviously you can afford the educatoin. Now whether or not you want to invest the time to learn is another issue. Your argument holds as much water as the excuse for not owning or worse not reading your bible or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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BarbaraTherese
Guest
I certainly can agree with your opening sentence - I’m 62 years old!!!
Please do not use me as any sort of yardstick for women in The Church…there are some exceptionally well educated women in our midst.
I never said that lack of understanding of any rule or teaching etc. is reason to put it aside. In fact I said absolutely the opposite. That if I have a difficulty or cannot understand that obedience to The Church takes precedence by far.
You may have misinterpreted my comment on the letter of the law and the spirit. May I use an everyday example that I often give. Jaywalking (crossing the road at an agle instead of straight across) across the road here is an offence. The purpose (spirit) of this law or rule is safety on the roads. If there is an accident on the road which common sense tells me I need to avoid and I refuse to break the jaywalking law and walk right into the middle of an accident, I am very plainly stupid and keeping the letter of the law and blind to its spirit (road safety) which is the superior. I hope you will not misunderstand that, it is only an example
I think you have read me incorrectly. I think the face of The Church must change and by this I simply mean looking at the role of the priest (male) and perhaps taking out of this role demands that could be taken out and perhaps passed on to Deacons and/or lay people who have the gifts and education necessary. I am not speaking of any doctrine or dogma, nor Sacred Tradition. Matters of discipline, yes perhaps these could be looked at the relieve the tremendous load on our priests. It is not up to me, but The Archbishop…I am simply saying that there is a need for us to change what we can change and I am very confident this will happen and is in the process of happening already.
I feel perhaps that we cannot find a meeting point and that you have been interpreting me incorrectly…and perhaps my fault for not explaining myself. Apologies I am totally loyal to the Magisterium of The Church and have been all my life. Certainly no desire to be Methodist all due respect to this Faith profession. I do not feel any sort of call to be a student of theology even if I could afford it. I have a spiritual director who is a highly respected priest in my diocese and also my confessor. I live a particular lifestyle under perpetual private vows to the evengelical counsels and have done so now for over 25 years. Doubtless my director would indicate to me if he felt that there is something I should take up in my life I have not yet done.
Blessings…and my regards…Barb
Please do not use me as any sort of yardstick for women in The Church…there are some exceptionally well educated women in our midst.I never said that lack of understanding of any rule or teaching etc. is reason to put it aside. In fact I said absolutely the opposite. That if I have a difficulty or cannot understand that obedience to The Church takes precedence by far.
I have never said that I believe in the ordination of women, simply because I do not. I also said that where I may have any sort of problem or difficulty with what The Church has to say, then obedience to The Church takes precedence by far.
You may have misinterpreted my comment on the letter of the law and the spirit. May I use an everyday example that I often give. Jaywalking (crossing the road at an agle instead of straight across) across the road here is an offence. The purpose (spirit) of this law or rule is safety on the roads. If there is an accident on the road which common sense tells me I need to avoid and I refuse to break the jaywalking law and walk right into the middle of an accident, I am very plainly stupid and keeping the letter of the law and blind to its spirit (road safety) which is the superior. I hope you will not misunderstand that, it is only an example
$500 is a fortune to me and I only now and then buy a Catholic book since they also are quite expensive compared to my income …and our Lending Library (Catholic) is a long way from me and I do not have a vehicle.
No free CD’s in the back of our Church. No books either, only pamphlets. I live in an extremely poor parish. I am South Australian incidentally.
I am very poor actually and keep things that way living simply. Certainly if I felt a call to learn theology and if I could afford it then I would go ahead and do so…this computer is a gift and internet access and all supplies are paid for - same applies with my mobile or cell phone. For many years I had no television nor any sort of radio. I now have a couple of TV’s actually that have been given to me second hand or pre loved as I call it. My stereo with radio was a gift too - it is only a very cheap one, which is not the point at all. Lots of things here are gifts otherwise they would not be here for sure. Bethany which is the name of my residence here and a lifestyle actually belongs to many.
I think you have read me incorrectly. I think the face of The Church must change and by this I simply mean looking at the role of the priest (male) and perhaps taking out of this role demands that could be taken out and perhaps passed on to Deacons and/or lay people who have the gifts and education necessary. I am not speaking of any doctrine or dogma, nor Sacred Tradition. Matters of discipline, yes perhaps these could be looked at the relieve the tremendous load on our priests. It is not up to me, but The Archbishop…I am simply saying that there is a need for us to change what we can change and I am very confident this will happen and is in the process of happening already.
I feel perhaps that we cannot find a meeting point and that you have been interpreting me incorrectly…and perhaps my fault for not explaining myself. Apologies
I am totally loyal to the Magisterium of The Church and have been all my life. Certainly no desire to be Methodist all due respect to this Faith profession. I do not feel any sort of call to be a student of theology even if I could afford it. I have a spiritual director who is a highly respected priest in my diocese and also my confessor. I live a particular lifestyle under perpetual private vows to the evengelical counsels and have done so now for over 25 years. Doubtless my director would indicate to me if he felt that there is something I should take up in my life I have not yet done.Blessings…and my regards…Barb
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vocatio
Guest
Sorry for misinterpreting you. If I offended you then I’m sorry, nothing uncharitable was meant by it. I elaborated to make a point but was misinterpreting what I was reading.
Be at Peace and forgive me.
PAX Christi tecum
Be at Peace and forgive me.
PAX Christi tecum
K
kage_ar
Guest
There are Catholic counselors who offer services on-line or over the phone. Also, please contact your Diocese and ask what resources are avaliable.
When you speak about finding a place to fit in, maybe your RCIA team needs another set of hands? The CCW group, CCD, youth ministry, Altar Society, Pro-Life group - there are always groups in need of volunteers.
Prayers for you!
When you speak about finding a place to fit in, maybe your RCIA team needs another set of hands? The CCW group, CCD, youth ministry, Altar Society, Pro-Life group - there are always groups in need of volunteers.
Prayers for you!
B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
…Your ok, Vocatio:thumbsup: …no offence was taken - I did think there was simply misunderstanding
…I am very happy that we have found that common ground - we were in agreement from the start…Blessings and my regards…Barb
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LeahInancsi
Guest
I discussed this situation of the past week with my priest. His primary comment was that after preaching the Gospels is supporting his parishoners in their spiritual growth. Mind you, we also have a very large parish. He supplied me the name of a good counselor at the church that he thought might be able to help me if I would rather talk to someone other than himself.
Secondly, we live in a parish which is primarily older retired people who are only interested in socialization (you have to be 50+ to join) and the Women’s Guild that has their own social activities, but raise money for the Eucharish and wine. Although their organizations don’t add much spirituality, they are a means to learning of smaller groups. The seond largest group that belongs to my parish, are low income Mexican families with children with both parents working. These people really don’t have a lot of time to atend meetings at the church in the evenings when they have 4 of 5 children to feed, do homeowrk and get to get, nothing to say of getting themselves prepared for the next day.
Lastly, I’m finding it very difficult to express myself well on this website. This is new in the past couple months. I’ve never had a problem with grammar as I am a college graduated and never had trouble with this type of matter. I can barely spell. For all I know, this low point in my life may have physiological component as much or more than a psychological problem.
J
jc-servant
Guest
It is harder to get our personal thoughts out coherently in writing even if we’ve done it professionally. Don’t worry about it.
Since you mention a physiological component you might want to get a complete check up and have a thyroid panel done and have your iron levels checked if you are feeling especially fatigued, sad and/or depressed.
I just went through this myself and it turned out that I was severely anemic due to another problem that it tooks months of testing and finally surgery to fix. I actually felt more perky after surgery even while still in the hospital with the pain! I’m also on medication for my thyroid too. When we don’t feel well internally it can really give us major mental stress about things (like your priest situation) that might not bother us as much otherwise.
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rien
Guest
It won’t perhaps?
The founder of Honduras Mission International was on EWTN’s Pacwa show this week.
In the 39 years he has been in Honduras the catholic church he said has gone from 93% to 73% of the population. In ten years he predicted it will be less than 50%. His heroic witness has made no difference it seems. He said there are 15 Protestant ministers for every catholic priest and 4 Protestant Catholic radio stations for every one Catholic stations.
He said the planes come from the US filled with several Protestant missionary groups per plane. Only seldom is there a Catholic missionary group on the planes.
The reality is that Mexico, Central and South America will be predominatly Protestant by mid-century. If the current trend continues and if anything in some of these countries it seems to be accelerating.
Is it just a question of priests? In part, but the Protestant message seems to be reaching and transforming lives in a way the Catholic message simply does not.
The founder of Honduras Mission International was on EWTN’s Pacwa show this week.
In the 39 years he has been in Honduras the catholic church he said has gone from 93% to 73% of the population. In ten years he predicted it will be less than 50%. His heroic witness has made no difference it seems. He said there are 15 Protestant ministers for every catholic priest and 4 Protestant Catholic radio stations for every one Catholic stations.
He said the planes come from the US filled with several Protestant missionary groups per plane. Only seldom is there a Catholic missionary group on the planes.
The reality is that Mexico, Central and South America will be predominatly Protestant by mid-century. If the current trend continues and if anything in some of these countries it seems to be accelerating.
Is it just a question of priests? In part, but the Protestant message seems to be reaching and transforming lives in a way the Catholic message simply does not.
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1234
Guest
What your church needs and the priest-deprived churches need is Small Group Ministry or Covenant Groups. Google “Catholic Small Group Ministry” and a bunch of links will come up, including links to UU
sources (ignore these).These are basically small support groups within a church, addressed to support faith, questions, community, in a group of 8-10. They meet once every 2-4 weeks, with potluck or dessert w/ prayers and ‘sharing’. The content of the meetings would probably vary according to the denomination.
I’ve never been a member of one, but I think that this sort of structure, which requires a LOT OF WORK by laypeople, could really help the isolated and lost in a church.
Also, NO ONE should have to miss a service because of no transportation, particularly Catholics, who have an obligation. Either members of the covenant groups should be able to give their members a ride or there should be a group in the church which provides this.
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1234
Guest
I second the recommendation to get a thorough checkup for physical problems as well as an evaluation for depression. Primary care people who aren’t MD’s, such as nurse practitioners and physician assistants are now doing a lot of this, and can diagnosis and treat medical and psychological conditions.
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idrum677
Guest
How true. I live in a heavily Catholic area and I can listen to at least 3 Protestant radio stations and no Catholic ones. I have to admit to listening to the Christian rock station b/c I enjoy the music (not the theology) and the secular stations are mostly garbage. I do hear the agressiveness of their evangeliztion efforts and the success that they have. I think if I did not fully believe that the Catholic Church were the one true church, I could be swayed to be come a protestant. Alot of “Catholics” do not know what they have. I have stated this on the site before- we have dropepd the ball on our evangelization efforts as a church- espicially towards out young people. The last 2 generations have become complacent with their faith and it more habitual than personal to them. Going to mass and the sacraments are a mere check list that need to be done. I am am involved in the music ministry at my parish and have a birds-eye-view of the congregation from the choir loft. I can see how people conduct themselves during mass- espicially during the consecration and the scarey thing is I have seen much worse at other local parishes. When we do not revere the sacred, we lose our identity and what seperates us from our protestant bretheren. We as Catholics better wake up before its too late.
C
chicago
Guest
Why is that? And, further, why is it that the Protestant communities can attract such committed evangelists which Catholics do not. To take it one step further (and make the question on topic to this forum) why aren’t Catholics able to offer more men towards priestly ministry, even, in relation to this reality?
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1234
Guest
Well, there’s the little problem of priestly celibacy. It all keeps coming back to this. Those Protestant missionaries are with their spouses, their children and other Protestant missionaries. One big happy family with lots of emotional, as well as financial support.
Sooner or later, Rome is going to have to address this. It sounds as if it’s just about ‘sex’. But it isn’t. It’s about support from loved ones and community and having a family. Men, in particular, need the structure of marriage and family. A number of sociological studies of happiness and general functioning, have shown that among the 4 groups, men/women, married/single, the single women are at the top and the single men are at the bottom. (The order usually goes fromt op to bottom, single women, married men, married women, single men).
And it will take a long time to catch up, if Rome changes its mind. You don’t produce good priests overnight.
BTW, another source for how to create community and support in Catholic churches can be found in the Quakers. They don’t have any ministers. Everything is run by their members. It’s lots of work and lots of time but that’s the way they operate.
Protestant churches create a mini-world of their own. Something for everyone. Beautiful service, flowers, music, choirs, stirring sermon–lots of emphasis on learning how to preach. It made you want to go to services. Sunday school at all levels, all-age day care, NO worrying about fretting babies (mentioned on this forum), NO worrying about how to get to Mass (ditto), SAY THE WORD and the driver will be at your door. Groups for men, women, teens, summer camps, full-sized gymnasiums with a full schedule of discounted classes, you name it. I lived in Atlanta for many years and COULDN’T BELIEVE the size, wealth and amenities of the Protestant churches, built on tithing, I suspect.
In its current condition, the RCC cannot match this, and I think that building community is essential to attracting and retaining parishioners, regardless of doctrine.
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idrum677
Guest
You’ve definately got that part right. I am not so sure married priests are the answer though. But can you all imagine all that is the Catholic Church- tradition Magesterium, Real Presence, etc. combined with the energy and vigor of the evangellicals? I’m not even suggesting daycare and gymnasiums but just the fellowship aspect and the willingness to share their faith. We need to pray for this type of renewal.
K
kage_ar
Guest
So, are you going to head up the stewardship drive in your Parish to fund all of this? Until we Catholics learn to give like our Protestant friends - we cannot afford the grand scale and kinds of programs that you suggest.
Are you also going to re-train the attitude of all those parishioners who do not have time to be involved as volunteers to actually MAN these great programs?
For the lack of men listening to a vocation - are you encouraging your son to consider a vocation? Most Catholic parents I see are more interested in those boys building resumes for Corporate America. If the son has to choose between youth group and football practice, that boy will be at football practice…
We as Catholics have to get our priorities back in order.
F
fix
Guest
You think the state of marriage is good in this society? Celibacy and marriage are linked. The answer is not more married men becoming priests. We get the number and types of priests we desreve.
- Status