It seems a bit of a stretch to go from disagreeing over the proper application of words like cult and heretic, to claiming that others are contending that there is no real right and wrong. After all, some who disagree with the heretic label were convinced that enough was wrong with Mormonism that they left that church.
I was not just bashed for what I said…I was told by the Catholics that we need to embrace everyone and not really fight against differences. If that is true, then there is no real reason to be Catholic. If we are going to embrace everyone and be like everyone, then it makes no difference what I believe.
and just sit back and relax.Maybe there’s a middle ground between fight and embrace. There’s a reason I’m not Catholic, or Mormon, JW, ELCA, PCUSA, etc., etc., so I don’t embrace those religions in the sense of “eager acceptance” of their teaching and practice, but neither do I feel compelled, on a forum dedicated to civil and charitable discourse, to “fight” against them or what they say. On any given topic–whether it be the nature of the Godhead, Christ’s atoning sacrifice, the meaning of the sacraments, Marian devotion, or whatever–it ought to be enough for me to share my opinion and/or church’s teaching and thank them for sharing theirs. As you know, I don’t always succeed in being charitable myself, and tend to go into “fight against” mode myself, particularly when seeing what I perceive as slights or put-downs of someone else’s faith; I need to do better at disagreeing without getting my hackles up on certain issues.
To me, there is no middle ground. Either the Catholic Church is THE true Church and none other is, or it is not, and we embrace everyone else and sing kumbaya.
Its not that the truth should not be spoken and adhered to. It’s the manner in which it is spoken. I am as guilty as any in failing at this, nevertheless, our purpose here is not to win arguments. It is to win souls. I have to remind myself of this all time. We can speak the same truth in one way and send people running away. We can speak it in another way and bring them closer, all the while never compromising the truth.
Truth is truth. If someone is looking for truth, then how I say something will not offend. If someone is not looking for truth, but to defend their ideas, then what I say WILL offend.
You are on the right track with this, but I believe there is more.
Sorry, it does matter how you say it. I can tell one they are a complete idiot for believing what they are believing and then deliver the truth. Or I can acknowldege what little truth they may have and build on that, asking if they have ever considered another viewpoint and deliver it to them in that manner. The first will run away or be so offeded they will not even receive the message. That later may take what I have said and think about it. Same truth, different delivery. Smacking people over the head with truth is a fruitless exercise.
If I witness a child being hit by a car, I may not give the truth to the police in the same manner I would give it to the mother, that’s all I’m saying. I am in no way saying we should comprimise the truth. We need to remember that these are actual people with whom we are conversing, maybe some very lost people, and if their experience in speaking to Catholics is just getting beat over the head they are simply going to run away and never hear the truth. It would be nice to have a few of them stick around for awhile. I have never seen so many Mormons come and go as I have in this last year.You are on the right track with this, but I believe there is more.
Some people want to ignore the differences, hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and ignore the truth.
Some, instead of actually wanting to discuss the issue are more inclined to debate the definition of a word, and drag the entire thread off topic.
Here’s the deal the way I see it. TK is blunt. He is not rude. There is a difference.
The truth is the truth. There is no sugar coating to the truth no matter how much some people would like there to be. If the truth is blunt, and it hurts someone’s feelings then so be it.
Nobody is attacking individual mormons. Instead the failings of mormonism as an institution is being addressed. If people cannot separate the two, then so be it.
When people take pot shots at the Catholic Church, I don’t take it personally, I know they are talking about the institution which is t he Catholic Church.
It shouldn’t be that hard to figure out.
So should I take it that you mean Jesus was wrong for offending people? Or Peter was? Or the other Popes were?Should I follow Marie’s desire to embrace all and sing kumbaya or Jesus’ example to offend when necessary?
I think you might have missed my point. I think you’re at the right airport, just the wrong gate
.I afraid that your analogy fails here. Your example has you attacking the individual by calling them an “idiot”. That has not happened. (at least not that I am aware of)
Is that what I said? If people are offended by the truth then that is their problem. If they are offended by the way it is delivered then that is my problem.
See above. I’m done here.
So, you should always worry if someone is offended? Frankly, I was, and AM offended at Marie and a few others for how they treat the Catholic Church and those who do not deliver the message they way they think it should be delivered.