Also, for what it’s worth… elder Bruce mcConkie taught that the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon (great and abominable church), but then again, that was a popular belief of the time, I guess beliefs change over time. I assume they don’t believe that anymore amirite?
I’m sure you can find a planet quote. But the belief isn’t in vogue at the moment and is generally considered a little bit strange. It belongs to that corpus of teaching that Mormons consider “speculative” and unofficial. Hey, it’s how we deal with criticism. Mormon doctrine has drifted toward mainstream Christianity over the years.I find that very funny.
Confusion over whether the Mormon church teaches that you become Gods (and I can find a “rule a planet as a God” quote) and confusion whether the book of Mormon, as the word of God teaches that ancient civilizations existed in North America.
Ha! Thanks for the advice. I bet I could use a cup of coffee… It isn’t prohibited in the BoM, but in the Doctrine and Covenants, section 89. Actually, section 89 doesn’t "prohibit"anything per se, but counsels against “hot drinks” among other things. Church leadership has since interpreted that, applied it to a handful of specific things, and turned it into a strict prohibition shortly after the turn of the 20th century. It’s another one of those things that can determine whether or not a Mormon is qualified to enter one of the temples.
However nutty… er, interesting… our former leaders may have been, I don’t think they qualify us for cult status in 2012.
That is a GREAT point. An apostasy doctrine does not constitute a cult. Very true
In spite of some uncharitable comments about the Catholic Church by some prominent Mormons of past times, the LDS Church has no official position on the “great and abominable Church” and has never passed the matter off as doctrine. These days, Catholics and Mormons get along pretty well, at least where I live.Also, for what it’s worth… elder Bruce mcConkie taught that the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon (great and abominable church), but then again, that was a popular belief of the time, I guess beliefs change over time. I assume they don’t believe that anymore amirite?
Um … have you looked in the LDS Hymnal lately?
Ah, yes, one of my favorites. Never quite sure what the word “hie” meant. What is kind of cool is that there is a reminder to sing this with “contemplation”. That means you better take it pretty seriously. Are you kidding me? Sorry to the Mormons out there, but to pretend that this is no longer a belief is just one more on a long list of things that are common within the LDS belief system but are said to be “speculative and unofficial”.
Latter-day Saints believe in and accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and man.
Latter-day Saints reject the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. We believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate/distinct divine Persons who are united in purpose, love, and will, known as “the Godhead”.
Latter-day Saints do accept the Bible. We study it, we have religious classes dedicated to studying it, it is referred to in our worship services (in addition to our other scriptures of course), etc.
We do. We also believe that God has provided further revelation on the nature of the afterlife.
Latter-day Saints reject the traditional notions of Heaven and Hell, however we do believe that in the afterlife, there will be reward and punishment. We also believe that there is a “holding place”, known as the Spirit World, between now and the resurrection. Those in Paradise will go to Heaven, those in Spirit Prison are punished, and have the chance to accept the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ if they did not have that chance in this life.
Yes, we accept the reality of the soul.
Latter-day Saints believe that we are a restoration of Christ’s Church, with a restoration of His priesthood, as well as the restoration of various beliefs (as well as believing that God has provided further teachings and doctrines through continuing revelation to His prophets and apostles). While we reject certain traditional Christian doctrines, such as the Trinity, no more scripture, etc., we also have various similarities, chief among them is our belief in Jesus Christ as our divine Savior, and that it is only through His atoning sacrifice that we can receive eternal life.
Wonderful.
Saying it is so repeatedly does not make it so, anymore than the multitude of websites making claims of Catholic Church bureaucracy (as a simple Google search turns up) makes it so.
So when you say that “Mormons have more monetary obligations than the 10%.”, then list off building fund, missionary fund, etc etc., they aren’t really “obligations”…Ok.
Actually, I have repeatedly addressed this. Latter-day Saint Christians also choose to pay tithing. In fact, this matter of “choice” reminds me of the arguments many anti-Catholics put forth against clerical celibacy and the Bible speaking on those that “forbid to marry”. The apologetic response is that the priests aren’t forbidden to marry, they “choose” to not marry (and know the consequences if they do). Similarly, Latter-day Saints choose to pay tithing, and know the blessings that come from following this commandment (and all the others). Latter-day Saints are also grateful to know that our bishops will guide us in following the commandments, including tithing, and if we are having difficulty following a commandment, he will work with us through that. Latter-day Saints are grateful to know that we are all in this together, and our brothers and sisters, including those in authority in The Church of Jesus Christ, look out for our spiritual and temporal well being, and can help us back on the Path when we stray, have difficulty, etc., whether home teachers, visiting teachers, bishops, or simply someone with no authoritative role just looking out for their fellow man.
No, I am not missing the point, I just don’t agree with your point, as well as the loaded words you use.
And what I am telling you is that your caricature of Latter-day Saint practice is not the reality of Latter-day Saint practice, nor how we view our practice, anymore than the caricature of Catholic practice by Catholic critics is the reality of Catholic practice, or how Catholic view their own practice. The Church of Jesus Christ is a hospital for sinners, and the Church has been given, as well as provides, tools that help us endure to the end and receive the gift of eternal life. Most important here is the atonement of Jesus Christ. Other important “tools” are the scriptures, as well as the saving and non-saving ordinances, etc. We also look out for our fellow brothers and sisters, and the Church has provided a way to do so in an organized manner (in addition to what we all do on our own).
The Latter-day Saint equivalent of the Catholic “initiatory rituals” are of course baptism, confirmation, and the Sacrament. Non-Latter-day Saints are certainly welcome to view such ordinances.
I am not trying to diminish anything, except your caricatures of the Latter-day Saint faith, as well as conflating various issues. I have repeatedly states that there are similarities in some senses, while obviously there are differences. You repeatedly bringing up differences does not change what I have stated.
To put it simply, after a temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is dedicated, to enter and participate in the sacred rites that occur therein, one must be adequately prepared to do so. This preparation includes faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism by God’s authority, receiving the Holy Ghost and confirmation, and a solid foundation in the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, including following the commandments (with continuous repentance when we falter), so that one does not participate unworthily (which is no different than other ordinances, such as how we should not partake of the Sacrament/Communion unworthily). One then meets with priesthood leaders to discuss their faith in God, the atonement of Jesus Christ, the restoration of the Gospel and the Lord’s Church, following the commandments (including chastity, Word of Wisdom, and tithing), etc.
There is, as has been repeatedly demonstrated. Noting similarities in specific issues does not ignore the obvious differences, which are readily apparent.
This is a caricature, and I have repeatedly addressed the issue of tithing. Firstly, tithing is not “rigorously checked”. Once a year, we meet with our bishop, who asks us if we are a following the commandment of tithing. If we answer yes, that is that, the meeting is over in 2 minutes. If the answer is no, the bishop will try to help us in following this commandment (as he does with any other commandment or area of the Gospel of Jesus Christ), and work with that individual. You seem to be very focused on tithing and you portray it as something completely separate from the other commandments in The Church of Jesus Christ. To enter the temple of the Lord, one should have a testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and be following the commandments, only one of which is tithing. If one is not following the Law of Chastity, for example, yet they tithe, they will not be able to participate in temple rites at that point, until they exercise repentance. Also, students, the unemployed, basically those with no income are also able to enter into and participate in the the temple, since they have no income themselves to tithe (as I know personally). The fact is, as I have said more times than necessary, it is about following the commandments. If we are not following a commandment, whether it is tithing, the law of chastity, etc., we are not able to participate in temple ordinances, until such a time that we repent.
Demonstrate the false generalizations and ad hominems.
The issue, as is clear from my actual post, is “choice”. Evangelicals frequently criticize the Catholic Church by claiming that clerical celibacy goes against the Biblical condemnation of those who “forbid to marry”. The Catholic response is that priests are not forbidden to marry, they choose not to be and remain as such after ordination. If a Catholic priest decides to get married, there are obvious consequences. Similarly, a Latter-day Saint makes a choice to pay tithing (as well as follow all the other commandments). If they do not, there are consequences (and of course the atonement of Jesus Christ is operative).
Oh dear. Obviously I know that. Where in the post did I claim that Latter-day Saints call baptism an initiation (to be clear, we do believe that baptism is an initiation or entrance into the Church of Jesus Christ, and there are a few LDS references to those baptized as being “initiated”, and it is through baptism and confirmation that we become members of The Church of Jesus Christ)? What I actually stated was “The Latter-day Saint equivalent of the Catholic “initiatory rituals” are of course baptism, confirmation, and the Sacrament.”
Of course.
Latter-day Saints believe in and accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and man.
Latter-day Saints reject the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. We believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate/distinct divine Persons who are united in purpose, love, and will, known as “the Godhead”.
By what you are saying here you believe in more than 1 god; you believe in 3 GODS. Was your theology derived from the benefit of biblical scholarship in earnest and truth, as in seeking out the learned Rabbis & Priests of the day? They would have learned the Jews LONG believed in ONE GOD. See the ancient Schema as in the Psalms “Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one.” The Jews were aware of One God and One God only. LDS founders in essence, derailed on this issue nor would they WANT to know that. To consult with anyone in truth & earnest would be unthinkable and counter to their goals of promoting a self-made theology. My Jehovah’s Witness friend & I discussed the (ignorance of) Trinity & basically she said they agree with LDS!
Latter-day Saints do accept the Bible. We study it, we have religious classes dedicated to studying it, it is referred to in our worship services (in addition to our other scriptures of course), etc.
IF lds “accept” the Bible, why have beliefs that clearly CONTRADICT it? For example, the Lord said “there is no marriage in heaven”. Why was it necessary to tube that clear, plain quote of Christ’s (Catholic Church did not change the straightforward meaning of) - it’s kind of an in your face issue isn’t it? Smith violated that clear, plain meaning of scripture - why? I would like you to answer this directly.
Sex & power go hand in hand, do they not, and this issue, which is disturbing to this day, continues with your altered theology of the afterlife. Start with a phony, man-made false premise, which all founders of sects do, so as to establish the need to restore, so as to promote such as the catastrophic notion of polygamy.
Also, an affront to: Jesus is the Bridegroom WE are the BRIDE, a thought they didn’t consider either. Jesus is and NEVER will be impure like your leaders. Don’t you teach Jesus had “wives” which, when you get down to it is PURE POISON!!! If that is the case, Our Savior is an adulterer which can never be. Please answer that one? How can the spotless, unblemished, pure Lamb of God be a sex fiend & chase after women? Please address that thought directly.
This crystal example is a clear, obvious, flat rejection of the Bible which to my estimation does NOT indicate LDS “accept” the Bible.
We do. We also believe that God has provided further revelation on the nature of the afterlife.
“God” provided this further revelation of the afterlife through a very troubled teenager with a record (with as Texan Knight says there are 9 versions of his story or to that effect an unclear picture of what really happened if I am not mistaken)???
Latter-day Saints reject the traditional notions of Heaven and Hell
NO ONE talks plainly & clearly more about hell than Christ did. What HE clearly, plainly says is GOSPEL. He clearly & plainly addresses heaven and hell. WHAT part of HELL don’t lds understand? Theological manipulations of the Bible are destructive - GOD is not nor never will be the author of confusion! He does not carefully advise the Jews, THEN send His DIVINE SON who is from HIM to suffer deicide at the hands of human beings, create HIS CHURCH which lds propose later failed so as to have many centuries later on the human scene have human beings twist and tamper with HIS WORD. Please address this issue directly.
Latter-day Saints believe that we are a restoration of Christ’s Church, with a restoration of His priesthood, as well as the restoration of various beliefs (as well as believing that God has provided further teachings and doctrines through continuing revelation to His prophets and apostles). While we reject certain traditional Christian doctrines, such as the Trinity, no more scripture, etc., we also have various similarities, chief among them is our belief in Jesus Christ as our divine Savior, and that it is only through His atoning sacrifice that we can receive eternal life.
I CLEARLY provided an example above which tubes your notion of a “restoration” especially such as that espoused by a convicted, troubled teenager. The eternal marriage, godhood and hell ideas are simply man-made. Promulgated doctrines lds promote are a 180 from CHRISTIANITY and a departure from the CLEAR, PLAIN MEANINGS of the Bible which is still protected and cherished by it’s AUTHOR, the RCC!
I smell the rat of COGNITIVE DISSONANCE!!!
Mormons lying?Okay so I know for a FACT unworthy people go to the Temple. Case in point- when Bishop said did you keep the Word of Wisdom and lady says, “yes I have I used to smoke but I have gave it up”. Gets the Temple Recommend and then goes to her car and lights up. She has never stopped.
If the Bishop has the keys to the Priesthood and Judge in Israel Don’t you think he would know the woman is lying?
Judge In Israel
In Doctrine and Covenants 107:73-74 it says,
This is the duty of a bishop who is not a literal descendant of Aaron, but has been ordained to the High Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. Thus shall he be a judge, even a common judge among the inhabitants of Zion, or in a stake of Zion, or in any branch of the church where he shall be set apart unto this ministry, until the borders of Zion are enlarged and it becomes necessary to have other bishops or judges in Zion or elsewhere.
In this capacity, the bishop conducts interviews to determine worthiness for such things as temple recommends, priesthood ordination (for the men), and missionary calls. He is also the person to whom people who have committed serious sins confess. He then determines how to best deal with these sins. In this role a bishop is also a counselor and is able to give spiritual as well as temporal advice.
I don’t know. I just think the Mormons don’t realize how many unworthy people go to the Temple- some lie just to see their children married
Actually, a number of us have lived it or seen it destroy our families or had it take someone from us. So don’t lecture anyone here for not believing your shenanigans and half truths. This is the problem with Mormonism. It is two-faced. You understand that what you believe is not palatable for “gentiles” so you squirm around with convoluted definitions, half truths and denials. If you were wise you would flee with your family from this deceitful religion. Become a Christian and put away this lunacy once and for all.
